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Old 02-24-2020, 05:44 PM   #21
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Greetings,
Mr. ob. "So, boats are supposed to come with modern GPS units?" Nope, never said that. Simply a response to your comment "...fuel a flow meter, but they seem stupidly overpriced..." $200 doesn't seem overpriced to me IF you have a Garmin unit that will accept the input. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:59 PM   #22
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RT,
I was teasing about the expectation of a NEMA enabled GPS.

Though for a serious cruiser, not a bad idea.

We could debate the markup of Garmin sensors, though they probably aren't any worse than anyone else, and that would be a different thread... ��

John
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Old 03-06-2020, 03:01 PM   #23
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Just looked at one this morning

I looked at a 410 commander this morning here in Detroit. The boat has been on the hard for 3-6 years. What a battle wagon. I doubt the mussels have done much damage to the hull. $2500 to haul and clean the bottom? Where are you, downtown Manhattan? Should be $100 to $250 to haul, and $150 to $250 to high pressure high temp power wash the bastards off. No more than $500. I could get it done here for $250 max. They blast right off i they are single season. Not sure about what you are looking at. The boat I looked at was completely original. Looked like steel tanks under the aft cabin beds. They appeared as new from the outside. No leaks (no cover either). White painted 454's carbureted. Crawl in engine room was not too cramped. How you get them out should be researched by you (does not look easy). This one is a flybridge, so I would guess low speed operation comes with a degree of rolling. A pair of Lehmans in there would be nice, or possibly 671N lay downs, or even 471's. There is a diesel engine warehouse in Niles Michigan that advertises all over the net and Ebay. Call them for a suitable diesel alternative. They are both used and rebuilt diesels.
After looking at this boat and seeing what decent examples sell for around here, I would not spend more than $5,000 to assume the driveline risk and all the tired soft goods. Nice ones sell for $20,000 to $40,000. If you are looking at spending much more, I would rethink what you are doing. I would be happy to put you onto this boat, but it is a flybridge and transport would suck.
I think Comodave is right. The 47 is the real deal. Maybe the coolest 46-47 FDMY ever made. I like Hatteras too. The Berts are the best quality, but interiors are not so hot. Viking, Ocean, and Egg have too many wet coring issues for me. A minty fresh water 427 center oiler 47 commander is like finding a barn fresh 427 AC Cobra. I am still holding out for my first trawler.

Question- I looked at a 50 foot Grand Banks Woodie today also. Absolutely incredible boat (not this one, but rather the model) Does anyone know of a shipwright in Michigan that could restore the waterline down on that boat for me. 5-10 planks and a cotton/sealer caulking job? This boat is majestic, but terrifying to to me as far as the wood goes. I would dive in head first to own that kind of quality and history, but I would need someone to head the work who would be fair in pricing. I don't know anyone to do this for me.
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Old 03-06-2020, 05:01 PM   #24
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I put a Loran C on my first boat. I thought it was the cat's meow!

pete

I finally removed my Loran C last summer. I don't think it's coming back.
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Old 03-06-2020, 05:12 PM   #25
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I finally removed my Loran C last summer. I don't think it's coming back.
Not any time soon...
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:05 PM   #26
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I owned a Chris 41 in the late nineties on Lake Erie. Solid glass hulls probably 2” thick. Yanmar made an engine back then that would replace the 454’s without any prop or transmission changes. Lowered the top end but increased economy greatly. Mine was an SD hull, so it ain’t going much more than 12 or 13 however much horsepower you wish to apply. I did not have trouble with deck coring, some rewiring necessary. Very comfortable and roomy for a couple, but the V berth forward was not much fun for guests, but then they didn’t stay long! Hahaha.

Biggest problems from my experience were the boat was awful in head seas, following seas and beam seas. But then after a few poundings we just stayed at the dock until weather was conducive to comfortable passages. Most of the destinations on Lake Erie were short trips 20 to 50 miles. The other big problem was the black water tank was steel and it rotted out to be replaced by moi with plastic. I suspect the fuel tanks were steel as well.

But OH! The memories of dinner and copious bottles of wine on that back deck! It wasn’t much fun to swim off or dinghy from because of the long climb up the transom, but no problem if the weather and sea state were calm.
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:36 PM   #27
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I'm not sure about doing it without prop or trans changes, but there are definitely a few diesel options that will fit where the 454s are now.

As far as seas, based on my similar hull, beam seas are unpleasant, particularly at low speed. Head seas at low speed can have some uncomfortable pitching, as the bow is pretty full and quite buoyant, so it will pretty much go up and over at any cost. At higher speeds, head seas aren't bad (just a bit wet) unless they're really choppy, then it can get a bit uncomfortable. Following seas are fine as long as you're going fast enough. Get too slow and the big, flat transom and small rudders make it a nasty ride.
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:26 AM   #28
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I had a CC41 for 10 years and loved the boat. The 454's were gas guzzlers, .5 to .75 gallons per mile at displacement speed,gets worse from there. Layout is great and boat was solid. Only big issue I had was the waste tank rotted out. Not really expensive, just a nasty failure and cleanup. I do have a warning about the design. The engine room access hatch is located in a high traffic area. Block access whenever its open. Personal bad experience.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:47 PM   #29
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Well good luck with it, I certainly like the boat and I really like flush deck motoryachts. Keep us up to speed on what happens and BTW we need photos!
I've always admired flush deck motor yachts. So when we decided to swap from sail to power, I told my wife, that that was the only style of boat I even wanted to look at.
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Old 03-08-2020, 02:03 PM   #30
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I do have a warning about the design. The engine room access hatch is located in a high traffic area. Block access whenever its open. Personal bad experience.

Good point. Mine is right in the middle of the salon and requires you to carefully step across / around it if it's open. So warnings about watching for that are frequent.
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Old 03-14-2020, 06:16 PM   #31
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I'm looking at buying a 1980 Chris Craft 410 Commander....

Nope, she's not a trawler, though the interior accommodations are as good as I've seen on most of the trawlers that I've looked at (in the 40' range).

To that end, does anyone know if a CC 410 Commander will run as nicely as I would hope / expect at "trawler speeds"?

This one has been in a covered slip on fresh water for at least the last 20 years, and came from a fresh water lake before that. That part is good. Unfortunately, at this point, we have a zebra muscle infestation on Lake Travis - so the entire bottom is most likely covered. Last bottom job was maybe 12 years ago?

In general, the boat appears to be in good condition (I have not had a survey <yet>), other than everything being rather dated, and obviously not much care in recent years.

Given the zebra muscle and growth issue, it will not be practical to do a realistic inspection of the bottom as part of the survey. I won't really know what I'm dealing with until the boat has been hauled, cleaned, and given a new bottom job, with whatever fiberglass repair is required. So this is a known HUGE risk.

I have a mechanic friend looking at the engines with me (gas Marine Power 454's). I won't buy the boat if we can't get the engines to start. Assuming we get the engines to start, I'm still allowing for a LOT of work there (carbs, full tune up, possible head work on one side).

Bottom line - it's a project boat, and I fully understand that. However, the price is right, and cheap enough that I can afford to put a significant amount of $$ into the bottom, engines, AC, and other random stuff (possibly replacing holding tank, water tanks, or fuel tanks? Bilge pumps, heads?)

Still trying to figure out if I'm crazy for jumping into this...
I do kinda' like messing around with old boats, and seem to fall into project boats. This one has a LOT of potential to be a nice boat if restored to reliable operation.

I really like the full walk around master bed, separate showers in the heads, lots of storage space, decent galley layout, lots of open space in the main salon and on the upper deck, and that it's a classic boat. I found the Chris Craft Command Club web page - and it has a TREMENDOUS amount of information about this family of boats, and lots of still active owners that know lots of good stuff. So that is really helpful too.

Another factor is that it's already on my lake. I had been looking at trawlers in the Galveston area. To get one hauled up to Austin would cost between $10-20K, as the flybridge would have to be removed, then re-assembled here. Most of the trawlers with similar live-aboard style layouts would also need unknown levels of repairs. So again, the cheap price allows the possibility to fix up / replace a lot of stuff, without spending a lot of $$ to get it here.

Again, it's not a trawler, but hopefully will run rather nicely at trawler speeds. And signing up for a project like this just may make me crazy enough to belong in this group...
It's a great boat. I had friends that had one. But if you are looking at one with the twin 454 gas engines then you should seriously look at re powering with diesel, which would be a huge expense. However, you'll eat up that expense in no time trying to run with those gas engines.
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Old 03-14-2020, 11:46 PM   #32
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For better or for worse - I pulled the trigger, and the 1980 Chris Craft 410 Commander is mine.

I spent a little time Friday putting a dent in pulling old stuff off the boat. Then, my mechanic buddy came and pulled the carburetors. Rebuilding those was the project for today. Will see how that turned out tomorrow. Lots and lots of projects ahead of me!

The depth finder is a Lowrance 2260C - with the concentric rings that you have to add up. I'm wondering if I should donate it to a museum? If anyone would like to offer me an insane amount of money for this treasure - I would be willing to part with it and put the proceeds to the insanely expensive bottom work that is on the short list! <grin>
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Old 03-15-2020, 12:43 AM   #33
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Congrats on your new boat. I really like the style of the flushdecks. Have fun!
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Old 03-15-2020, 07:11 AM   #34
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Congratulations! Be aware when you start touching wiring, Chris Craft did some weird stuff. Seeing black as + and white as ground in 12v circuits is common.
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Old 03-15-2020, 10:09 AM   #35
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Congratulations on the purchase. For sure you will love the sound of those big blocks, the cost of satisfying their thirst , not so much. There is some good advice in this thread but the decision is yours.

How many hours on the 454's, that will be the deciding factor for the short term.

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Old 03-17-2020, 10:53 AM   #36
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Since you have already started o the Carbs this might be of no use. You could look at fuel injection. Some of the throttle body type bolt ons are fairly reasonable. If you plan on running at lower speeds, jet your primaries for the RPM you plan to run and this might keep your fuel bill down some. FI with exhaust gas sensors can accomplish the same for all rpm's. Lean is great for fuel efficiency. Too lean is great for engine failure. Fat is safe. Lean is dangerous, but it delivers the best HP and fuel mileage right up until you melt down. I wonder if there are any mobile boat dyne's. I think the closest you could hope for is some kind of exhaust gas sensors. Good luck.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:58 AM   #37
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I've considered swapping to EFI (probably the Holley Sniper setup) on my 454s, but I figure I'd probably spend $1500 per engine doing it by the time I'm all said and done. And unless I also ditch the Thunderbolt IV ignitions and go for full computerized spark control, I probably won't save enough fuel to justify the cost and effort, as the big efficiency gain at low speeds would come from running more timing at low rpm when the load is light enough.

For now, the quadrajets work pretty well as-is. But I might re-assess that next time I need to do exhaust risers, etc. as that would be a good time to work O2 sensors into the setup and go EFI.

For oak_box, it probably makes sense to get things running properly with the existing setup, get the whole boat well sorted and then look at upgrades like EFI.
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Old 03-17-2020, 11:05 AM   #38
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I think the main reason to go EFI would be easy starting. You may save on fuel but had a friend that went EFI for the easy starting.
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Old 03-17-2020, 11:18 AM   #39
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I think the main reason to go EFI would be easy starting. You may save on fuel but had a friend that went EFI for the easy starting.
That would be a definite benefit. But as long as the chokes are set correctly, quadrajets start pretty well at any temperature a boat engine will experience (I've never started mine with the engine room below 45* or so).

For a cold start, pump to WOT 2 or 3 times to dump the accelerator pump shot, then leave the throttle cracked. It should fire within about 2 - 3 seconds of cranking at that point unless it's been sitting for long enough for the float bowls to dry up. If it doesn't start on the first try after sitting for more than a week or 2, pump the throttle 1 more time before cranking again.
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Old 03-18-2020, 02:44 PM   #40
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The fuel lines on my Bertram would back flow to the tanks over time. If I had not used the boat in a couple weeks I would have to pump the throttles and crank for quite a bit. EFI usually means electric fuel pump and this should solve that. A good electronic ignition is a big help. My carbs on the old Bertram were set up by the guy whose book I owned for Rochester Carbs. In other words, the guy who wrote the book built and tuned my carbs. A 35 Bert has a 19 degree deadrise and is not generally a high efficiency design. My boat at 2600 rpms and 17 knots would burn around 16-18 gallons per hour. In short, getting over a mile per gallon with a pair of carbed 454's is not too shabby. The CC 41 is not much heavier than the Bert 35 at 23,500lbs (I think the Chris is 26,000) and the Chris has a flatter bottom, so you could possibly cruise on plane at close to a mile per gallon if you really work your tune. What could you get in MPG at hull speed? I never took the time to work out those numbers, and I should have. Sorry.
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