Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-17-2020, 02:49 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
City: San Diego
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swfla View Post
First ask how old batteries are. Then see if you've been lied to. Visual inspection of all batteries. General appearance, bulging sides, date sticker, size and type. Your camera is very helpful here.
I've read several recent posts about new owners being given false information about the boat they're buying. Not just batteries but other maintenance work as well. If you can't verify it with accurate receipts and matching logs, take any owner's or broker's info with a dose of skepticism.
__________________
Advertisement

Swfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 06:40 PM   #22
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swfla View Post
I've read several recent posts about new owners being given false information about the boat they're buying. Not just batteries but other maintenance work as well. If you can't verify it with accurate receipts and matching logs, take any owner's or broker's info with a dose of skepticism.
Gathering of information in any business negotiation (and let's be clear it's a business negotiation and needs to be treated as such) is always challenging. There's an old statement "Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies." While I don't endorse that I think of what good attorneys do. They ask some questions that they either know the answer to or can easily verify it. It's great when they prove themselves to you with honesty early and some certainly do but many others either shade the truth or just ignore it. Get any documents you can and gather clues.

One problem is that typically you're dealing with a broker and there may even be two involved. Even if everyone was attempting to be honest, going from owner to his broker to your broker to you, there's a lot of chance for misleading or incorrect translation.
__________________

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 09:58 PM   #23
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by av8r View Post
Thank you, that's very reassuring to know that you haven't encountered excessive costs with maintaining your OA. I'll send you a PM with our contact info. If we move forward, it will be definitely be helpful to have someone that has experience with the same systems and model.

My husband has quite a bit of experience with small engines and automotive, and he also has done some work on semi diesels and our tractor. I did make a note of all the maintenance items you suggested; there is an inventory of spare parts, so we'll check to see if any of those items are already there. And thank you for the contact info for Brian.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 10:22 PM   #24
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Good reminders here. I'll see if we can go through all of the records, and at the very least confirm that the mentioned records exist. My impression was that the owner was genuine, but with 35 years of things to remember, I wouldn't expect all of it to be accurately recalled. (Will definitely try to verify things ourselves.) I'm not sure I want to speculate on the sincerity of brokers... But nothing to give us misgivings yet. Maybe that's a side benefit of teaching: a finely tuned sense for bull crap.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 11:05 PM   #25
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
Some general advice would be to ask if you are DIYers or not. If you are then the older boat will be fun since you like to work on the boat. If you are not DIYers then go for the newer boat since paying someone to do the work for you will be very expensive. It all depends on what you like to do. I love working on my boat probably as much as running it. But not everyone like working on boats so they pay someone else to do the work, and it will be expensive.
Good question! I would put myself somewhere between Paris Hilton in the Simple Life and Bob Villa. (Yes, my pop culture references are old...) We're not completely clueless or afraid of putting in some hard work, but there are definitely some tasks that we wouldn't want to do ourselves. I don't think either of us will do anything that requires more than a drill to the joinery without parental supervision. (My dad does hardwood floors, and his dad is a cabinet maker. Wood working is not one of either of our skills.) If we didn't have the time off in the summer, we would probably have to hire a lot of the work out. But I think we will enjoy putzing around the boat.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 11:13 PM   #26
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post

Peter
I totally agree about the minimal electronics. I'm glad we don't have 30 years of updates to work around or fix.

I was aware of the corrosion issues in the fuel tanks, but made a point to go back and read more about the saddle tanks and their issues after you mentioned it. It looks like you replaced the ones in your boat: sounds like quite the project!
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 11:26 PM   #27
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 9,531
Doing some things like core replacement doesnít require great woodworking skills. It is pretty low skill and high energy work. So if you can learn some simple skills you will go a long way to saving yourself a lot of money.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 03:17 PM   #28
Veteran Member
 
mickand's Avatar
 
City: Naples Fl
Vessel Name: Phantom
Vessel Model: Cheer Men PT41
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 31
Separate survey from a qualified engine surveyor would be a priority for me along with oil analysis undertaken on both engines, both transmissions and generator. This should give complete peace of mind.
Black iron fuel tanks - if they haven't been replaced - require close inspection. Difficult to examine but should at least be able to shine a flashlight along the tops of the tanks to see if there is corrosion from leaky deck fills.
I use DieselShok from USA Fuel Service which holds any water present in suspension.
Transmission oil coolers - shouldn't be a problem in fresh water but I do the loop each year and one of mine gave out at 5 years.
I replace both now every 3 years - probably over-kill but spending $130 for a cooler beats $6k+ for a transmission rebuild.
Good luck - looks like a fine boat.
mickand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 03:51 PM   #29
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport north of Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,287
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
The type of navigation you will get used to on the upper Miss. is far different that anything you will see if you move farther afield on the boat. Do you plan on doing that? Glad you are here.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 04:14 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Bryant's Avatar
 
City: Fleming Island, Fl
Vessel Name: Sakura Perdido
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 408
transitioning from dreamer

Quote:
Originally Posted by m10brink View Post
https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1985...an-40-7561195/

Here is the ad, although I don't think the interior pictures do the interior any favors. (I think she looks better in person, but I am pretty smitten, so my opinion might be biased at this point.) There also aren't any engine room pictures, but the engine room was tidy and impressively clean to our eyes. After looking at ads for the last three years, I normally would have passed over one without pictures of the engine, but the boat was close enough that we went to look at it in person. The owner was also kind enough to start the engines and they sounded healthy. We'll see how they perform next week, but we're not expecting any huge red flags with the engines. (Lehman 135s w/about 6000 hours)

We would definitely love some advice on what to look for at the survey, especially if anyone has knowledge of this particular model. It is our first big boat purchase, so we are definitely newbies. I think we have the general buying process down as far as knowing what kind of paperwork and additional expenses we'll be incurring. (Thank you to the financials/red tape forum for that!) Someone had also posted a link to the marine survey 101, which was also very helpful.

My biggest concerns for the survey are the condition of the bottom and overall structure. (I have a feeling this is where no amount of head knowledge gained by reading is going to help us out. Knowing what to look for is one thing, actually recognizing it in person is another!) Identifying issues in the hull is the area where we have the least amount of confidence.

I'm expecting that we'll do a lot of preventative maintenance on her over the next several years. The teak decks are a huge concern, but I don't think they are a problem yet. The decks have been sealed since the late eighties. She has been stored in a covered slip during the summer and has been stored indoors the last several winters. Hopefully this translates to healthy core on the deck. Same thing with windows and portlights. No evidence of leaking, but I'm anticipating a good amount of work/time to keep them that way. If the sale goes through, look forward to a lot of posts asking for advice on repairs.
That's a gorgeous boat. Congrats.

1. Teak decks are a pain. They cause water intrusion into the deck quite often and are a maintenance nightmare. This from a Grand Banks owner. If I were buying that boat, I'd look at removing the teak and glassing the deck. Not real cheap but will pay off in the long run. My GB had that done. Your surveyor should be able to tell you what the moisture level of the deck is. If he can't, get another surveyor. This is important. 2. Blistering of the hull. Your surveyor should be able to tell you about this as well. If it's time to do a bottom job on it, you might consider repairing the blisters and adding a barrier coat prior to bottom painting, which will prevent blisters in the future. Again, that's an additional expense but worth it, IMHO. Particularly on a boat of this caliber. 3. Don't worry about the hours on the engines. My Lehman 120 has over 7600 and purrs like a kitten. Knock on wood. A well maintained Lehman will run for 10,000 hrs before needing anything major done to it. 4. Your surveyor should tell you the condition of the cutlass bearings and stuffing boxes. If it's time to repair or replace, then while it's out of the water for the survey is a good time to do that. Saves you another haul out. I prefer a dripless stuffing box but that's just me. Make sure you have the sanitation system checked to ensure that the heads work and the holding tank can be pumped out. Check the condition of the fuel tanks. Are they original and are they the old "black iron" type? If they are, they will probably have to be replaced. Those are real problems on trawlers of that age. Replacing them is a big job and can be quite expensive depending on your set up. If you don't know what that is, do some google research. This is very important and can effect the cost of the boat.

Finally, get the best surveyor you can get. Do some research on those you are considering. The best money you will ever spend on this boat is the initial survey, so make sure you have a good one with credentials and recommendations.

Good luck and again, Congratulations!
Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 04:45 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Bryant's Avatar
 
City: Fleming Island, Fl
Vessel Name: Sakura Perdido
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 408
Going from dreaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swfla View Post
I've read several recent posts about new owners being given false information about the boat they're buying. Not just batteries but other maintenance work as well. If you can't verify it with accurate receipts and matching logs, take any owner's or broker's info with a dose of skepticism.
I was lied to by the previous owner and the broker. The boat was totally misrepresented to me by both, and to add insult to injury, I had an incompetent surveyor (or a dishonest one that was working with the seller unbeknownst). I was mislead by the physical appearance of the boat (particularly the engine room), my experience with large boats and the dishonesty of the seller and broker. I wound up with a boat where neither head worked, the V berth AC was inoperable and not even connected to a through hull, the cold plate fridge didn't work, the holding tank couldn't be pumped out and many other problems. I was even told that during the most recent bottom job, a barrier coat had been added. Not true. Some issues were apparent during my limited sea trials and were supposed to be fixed according to our contract and others were not discovered or reported by the survey that I trusted. I bought the boat from a remote location and had it delivered to me by a delivery captain, who gave me more accurate information about the condition of the boat than the surveyor did. I considered legal action but the boat was a lifetime dream of mine and I got it for a reasonable price so I decided to keep it, fix what was wrong and repair, refit and upgrade to make it mine. I'm just saying, be very wary of what the owner and broker's tell you. When money is involved, people will look you in the eye, smile , and lie to your face. That's why I say, get a really good surveyor.
BTW, my boat is now the beautiful, functioning trawler I always wanted (except for hurricane Sally damage) and will continue to serve as a member of the family for many years to come.
Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 08:42 PM   #32
Member
 
City: Hailing Port~Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: NO-MO
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 17
Welcome! We bought our boat only a year ago. Still wide eyed and more than a bit nervous every time we move our boat for docking practice. Looking forward to sharing experiences.
D. Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 09:47 AM   #33
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Again, thank you all for the great suggestions and things to watch out for. I'm going to try and reply to everyone, but if I missed you, please don't take it unkindly. Our survey is scheduled for tomorrow, so I'll probably have an update later this week.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 10:17 AM   #34
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant View Post
.
I'm sorry to hear that your experience was not a pleasant one. Collusion between seller and surveyor to misrepresent the boat... I can't say I'm shocked, but rather disappointed that it happens at all.


We've been talking about the fuel tanks and the teak decks as things that we'll probably need to address even if they pass the survey. Although, fuel tanks may be a deal breaker if they need to be done now. I'm not sure either of us are willing to jump into a fuel tank re-do as our first boat project.

I hope your boat didn't suffer too much damage from Sally. And hopefully she'll be spared any more hurricane damage this season. Makes me glad we're farther north.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 10:28 AM   #35
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
The type of navigation you will get used to on the upper Miss. is far different that anything you will see if you move farther afield on the boat. Do you plan on doing that? Glad you are here.
Thanks! We're planning to stay here for the next couple summers to learn the boat. Our ideal plan is to eventually get her up to the St. Lawrence for a few years of exploring. (My in-laws live just east of the 1000 islands area.) The logistics of getting here there will definitely be putting us into different territory. I'm hoping that doing some chartering in different waters while we're stuck on land during the winter will help prepare us for the trip east. Although, I could definitely see hiring a skipper to help us with that trek. We would also love to do the Loop, but that's a 5-10 years out goal.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 10:45 AM   #36
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Thanks for the advice! Someone mentioned bringing a borescope camera along to check tight spaces, so hopefully we'll be able to see into some of the tighter spaces while checking the fuel tank. Fingers crossed that it looks good.

I'll pass on the suggestions for the fuel additive and coolers since my husband is going to be head mechanic. I can see him belonging to the over-kill club when it comes to maintenance. And don't be surprised if I hit you up for suggestions on mechanical prep for the Loop in a couple years.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 10:55 AM   #37
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Wilson View Post
Welcome! We bought our boat only a year ago. Still wide eyed and more than a bit nervous every time we move our boat for docking practice. Looking forward to sharing experiences.
I'm glad I won't be the only one feeling nervous. But that's better than being over-confident, right? I'll definitely be looking forward to sharing experiences. Cheers to being nervous and overwhelmed, but stubborn/brave enough to learn to do it anyways.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 10:56 AM   #38
Member
 
City: Astoria
Vessel Name: Seahorse
Vessel Model: OA 40 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 15
Update:

The boat performed beautifully at her sea trial. I wasn't there, but I could hear my husband grinning on the phone afterwards. He always was a sucker for a good sounding engine.

The rest of the survey also went well. There were not any major surprises, and the big concerns (fuel tanks, decks, hull, engine, generator, batteries) were all in good condition. So, the plan is to enjoy, keep an eye on these, and tackle the larger preventative maintenance projects after getting to know and use the boat.

Of course, as I've gathered from reading other threads, all used boats come with projects. The only big unknown that we're facing is the head. The manual flush works just fine, but it isn't connected to electricity. (PO disconnected because the electric flush was incredibly loud.) Not making any plans for a project here until we've investigated this further.

Otherwise, we have a short laundry list of little projects like refreshing safety equipment. I am also going to try and spend some time this winter trying to restore the teak swim deck. It's still quite solid, but it looks like it could use a little love and some teak oil.
m10brink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 11:09 AM   #39
Senior Member
 
City: San Diego
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 478
If you didn't know, we have a member, Peggy, who published a book about heads, plumbing, etc. It should educate you as to the types of heads available and what system is best for you. It seems that with the boat being kept under cover in fresh water for so many years contributed greatly to the lack of serious issues. Of course the owners deserve great credit as well. Decks and windows that end up leaking will still need careful attention, they're known issues on GB. I would think that fuel tanks kept near full will minimize internal corrosion. I do suggest that you keep an eye on all the systems as they haven't been used a lot over the years and that cn cause failure as well. Your plan of boating in your home waters is a great way to proceed. Hoping all the paperwork goes well!
Swfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 03:38 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
av8r's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes
Vessel Name: Selah
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 40
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 256
Good to hear things went well and looked good.
__________________

av8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×