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Old 02-26-2020, 11:11 PM   #1
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Thank you

Hi all,

First time posting here but have been lurking around gaining as much information as possible these last few months. We are the proud new owners of a new to us 1984 42 CHB (up for debate with the previous owners) and couldn’t be happier to be here. The boat has its issues but we are trying to handle the big stuff right off the bat and go from there. So far we are replacing the spongy side decks as well as getting new tanks built by American fuel tanks in San Diego. The front windows will be resealed and rebedded and then it’s time for a paint job from the fly bridge to the deck. It’s quite a project but we plan to call it home for a few years and then go from there. Anyway, look forward to interacting with you all and again, thank you already. Wouldn’t have gotten this far without all of the information on this forum.

Justin
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:14 PM   #2
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Welcome! Vince, with American Tanks, is a class act.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:27 PM   #3
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Like to see your engine compartment has full opening floor in salon. We have same in our Tollycraft. Makes getting to engines easy compared to crouching under floor in a crawl space.

Welcome... Enjoy!!
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:33 PM   #4
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Welcome aboard and congrats on your new boat. Have fun with it.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:13 AM   #5
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If you are in Long Beach area, I know two really good painters there with really long lists of references and boats at the local marinas where you can see their work going back 10+ years.

Elid Cordon -- (323) 252-3799
Hector (Forgot his last name) -- (323) 571-1775

They work dockside and have done tons of boats from the waterline up. Hector has been working on boats on the docks there for at least a decade, maybe more, and Elid claims to have been painting boats in the area for 40+ years and no one doubts him -- he's been around as long as the oldest folks around can remember.

Hector usually works by himself. Elid sometimes works by himself and sometimes brings a helper or two for large jobs. They both do deck core work. They both primarily do Awlgrip. I think I've seen Hector do some boats with Kiwigrip for the decks. Not sure if Elid uses it ever, or just Awlgrip.

Hector repaired my mid deck core and painted all of my decks and refinished my transom, as well as refinished one of my shower enclosures and built-in fiberglass lavatory units. He also cut out two live wells a prior own had built into my aft deck and refinished it and the back of the aft cabin on the outside, where the built ins had been built in. He used Awlgrip for everything. The work was flawless.

When I went to paint my whole boat, I switched to Elid Cordon because he happened to be able to schedule it sooner and planned 50% less calendar time because he worked with a helper.

My boat was very deeply crazed, so it wasn't an easy one to paint, either. It had to get sanded down to the glass, built up with layers of primer, and then painted. The transformation was amazing. I got quotes $80k by local boat yards, $40k by the yard in Mexico, and Elid was $15k. He recently did a 42' Grand Banks, waterline up, for about $25k there.

When it comes to replacing core, I've seen Elid take on bigger jobs than Hector. It might just be what I've seen, but I think it also might be that Hector might avoid recoring jobs beyond a certain size because he is only one person. I don't know.

The prices they quote are about the same. I think they know each other and often communicate to keep it that way and not undercut each other.

Hector's work is 100% flawless. Elid's work is nearly as good, but I did occasionally see something I thought needed revision -- and he always did it without complaint or any push back. He normally blamed his helper and apologized. As a for example, there was a drip mark on my transom, so he sanded it and repainted the whole transom without complaint.

No one I know has ever known Hector to try to renegotiate a price once he gets into a job. Small renegotiations with Elid seem to be the norm. He might come back and say that he didn't know X was supposed to be included, or Y needed extra prep. But it is generally such as small amount that no one wrestles much with him over it. None of these things have every resulted in anyone being unhappy in the end, more like gentle head shaking, "You thought I wanted all of the brightwork done -- but the ladder?"

I used to keep my boat at Island Yacht Anchorage #2 and they both have worked on tons of boats there and at #1, so you can walk the docks, see their work, and talk to dock neighbors. Some people get transient slips there to let them work on boats. Usually the marina manger puts those boats on the far side of #2, and the A dock to keep the work away from other boats. They both seem to do work at certain yards between there and Marina Del Rey. But, I think Elid spends most of his time working at the Island Yacht Anchorage marinas. They are both well known the the management there, and keep it clean enough to stay in their good graces and keep the port police and uscg happy.

At any rate, I can't say enough good things about either of them. As a brand new boater with a project boat and "fool" written across my forehead, I was losing control of project after project, having to have things redone because I didn't know enough to get them done right, etc, and these two folks dealt me a fair deal, followed through, and did work that passed the test of time. I saw my old boat a few months ago, and it still shined like new. They took care of my friends and dock neighbors, absentee boat owners, etc, and there was never a problem.

Elid Cordon -- (323) 252-3799
Hector (Forgot his last name) -- (323) 571-1775
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:35 AM   #6
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Also, if you are wondering how Elid painted the boat to the waterline while it was in the water...

He borrowed these huge plastic barrels from the marina's maintenance person, put them on one side of the boat, and filled them with water. The boat tilted to that side bringing the other side out of the water a bit and he painted it. He then drained the barrels, moved them to the other side. In my case, this was repeated several times to do the multiple primer coats and finish coats.

The marina's maintenance person, Ramon, gave him a good bit of help with the barrels and maybe loaned him a pump to empty them. I just don't remember the details and I may not have been there when they were actually filled and emptied.

I'm trying to remember why the marina has the barrels, and I am not sure, but they may occasionally be used to help maintain floating docks, kept on hand in case of an emergency pump-out is needed, e.g. ruptured fuel tanks, and/or just kept to help with things like this on the boat. Ramon over there is amazingly helpful in general.
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:08 AM   #7
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Years ago I had a 46’ trawler painted from the waterline all the way up in Long Beach. They sprayed it while it was in the water. They did the prep work by standing on foam floats. When they got ready to spray it they floated bubble wrap on the water around the boat. They did an incredible job on it. I no longer have the name of who did it.
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Old 02-27-2020, 05:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by gkesden View Post
Also, if you are wondering how Elid painted the boat to the waterline while it was in the water...

He borrowed these huge plastic barrels from the marina's maintenance person, put them on one side of the boat, and filled them with water. The boat tilted to that side bringing the other side out of the water a bit and he painted it. He then drained the barrels, moved them to the other side. In my case, this was repeated several times to do the multiple primer coats and finish coats.

The marina's maintenance person, Ramon, gave him a good bit of help with the barrels and maybe loaned him a pump to empty them. I just don't remember the details and I may not have been there when they were actually filled and emptied.

I'm trying to remember why the marina has the barrels, and I am not sure, but they may occasionally be used to help maintain floating docks, kept on hand in case of an emergency pump-out is needed, e.g. ruptured fuel tanks, and/or just kept to help with things like this on the boat. Ramon over there is amazingly helpful in general.
There is often a tremendous amount of grinding and sanding to repair fiberglass such as closing holes from old instruments and fittings. A top quality paint job usually includes several coats of hi-build primer that is sanded down in successive layers. I assume the paint job did not require this type of work? Not saying this is always required, just that it's important to keep the comparison apples/apples. I will say yards have difficulty with 80/20 rules: 20% of the effort/cost delivers 80% of the benefit.

I have seen excellent in-slip DIY paint jobs where the surface is prepped with a light sanding and wiped down with chemical strippers (acetone, MEK, etc). But that's a very different paint job that what most yards do when there is warranty responsibility driven by the paint manufacturers rexommendations to worry about.

BTW - I'm having my Willard 36 painted in Ensenada at Niza Marine (Niza Marine.com), an alternative to Baja Naval. They borrow space from a semi-commercial DIY yard run by an ex-Baja Naval manager Guillermo. Attached is picture of one of several coats of build-coat prior to final paint. It will be sanded off almost completely before next coat is added. Click image for larger version

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Old 02-27-2020, 01:05 PM   #9
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Hey Mvweebles,

My boat was very heavily crazed. He took most of the hull and house all the way down to the glass. For whatever reason, he had to go into the gel on the flybridge, but not completely through it. The decks got sanded through many layers of paint, in some cases into, but not through, the gel, and in some cases into what appeared to be the 1st layer of paint.

He basically took it down until there were no traces of crazing or chalking, and built it up from there.

There was the occasional defect he filled with thickened epoxy before priming, but I had very little damage....just aging. When he did the occasion bit of damage repair, he overfilled it heavily and then sanded to shape.

I was really scares for a bit. After the sand/grind phase, the boat looked fit for the crusher. I felt like if he didn't finish the job, no one would. It really looked aweful.

I dont remember if he sanded between layers of primer or not. I assume he did.

He originally told me he was going to lay down 3 layers of primer and that sanding would make it the thickness of two, but I think he ended up doing an extra layer of primer most places. It was an off white high build primer.

After he was done priming, ibfelt there was hope. After the 1st layer of top coat, I was a little disappointed, the shine was inconsistent. Then he laid down that 2nd coat. And the boat looked factory new.

I was amazed they let him do that kind of work at the marina. But, he did and still does. He did as good a job atbdust control as one can do with disposable plastic tarps taped in various ways and a shop vac. But, it still was what it was.
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:29 PM   #10
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You will love those Ford Lehmans. How many hours on them?

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Old 02-27-2020, 03:42 PM   #11
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We are in fact in the Long Beach area and hope to eventually make our way into shoreline marina but the live aboard waitlist there is 3-5 years right now. Thank you guys for the references on the paint. We have a contractor who Is doing the decks and windows and will most likely do the paint as well already lined up but it’s nice to have a few more reputable people in our contact list. Fortunately, the bottom paint and from the waterline to the decks has been freshly painted so we should be able to do everything dockside.

The Lehman’s are actually the turbocharged SP160’s which I can’t find a ton of information on. The guys over at American diesel have been very helpful though. We are swapping out transmission coolers soon and are also getting a new exhaust riser built for the starboard engine. The heat exchangers will be done next season. They run great though and were one of the selling points on the boat. They have a little over 800 hours on them.
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by gkesden View Post
Hey Mvweebles,

My boat was very heavily crazed. He took most of the hull and house all the way down to the glass. For whatever reason, he had to go into the gel on the flybridge, but not completely through it. The decks got sanded through many layers of paint, in some cases into, but not through, the gel, and in some cases into what appeared to be the 1st layer of paint.

He basically took it down until there were no traces of crazing or chalking, and built it up from there.

There was the occasional defect he filled with thickened epoxy before priming, but I had very little damage....just aging. When he did the occasion bit of damage repair, he overfilled it heavily and then sanded to shape.

I was really scares for a bit. After the sand/grind phase, the boat looked fit for the crusher. I felt like if he didn't finish the job, no one would. It really looked aweful.

I dont remember if he sanded between layers of primer or not. I assume he did.

He originally told me he was going to lay down 3 layers of primer and that sanding would make it the thickness of two, but I think he ended up doing an extra layer of primer most places. It was an off white high build primer.

After he was done priming, ibfelt there was hope. After the 1st layer of top coat, I was a little disappointed, the shine was inconsistent. Then he laid down that 2nd coat. And the boat looked factory new.

I was amazed they let him do that kind of work at the marina. But, he did and still does. He did as good a job atbdust control as one can do with disposable plastic tarps taped in various ways and a shop vac. But, it still was what it was.
Yikes! That's a lot of dust to do on a marina, especially one anywhere in California! My guys in ensenada started in the slip and did some surgery, but the marina put a stop to all work in slips so I moved to the yard. My paint job is $23k but had a ton of fiberglass work and a ton of fittings to remove - absolutely everything was removed including cleats. Also included non-skid which seems to always be quoted extra. On top of that, I had my caprails encapsulated with fiberglass so I would have zero exposed wood (about $2k extra for hull and flybridge). I too had some very old chalky and crazing gelcoat that had actually worn through to fiberglass in some places. 50-years is a long time for a boat to be floating.

Sounds like you got a great paint job. Much more thorough than other in-slip paint jobs I've seen. If you have that type of work available, there is absolutely no reason to head to Mexico. Labor is cheap in Mexico, and I am pretty happy, but it's sort of a pain to get there and while only 70 miles south of San Diego, getting large parts in can be a nuisance.

Thanks. Appreciate the exchange.

Peter.
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