Newbie-need info on Lien Hwa boat

[SIBERNUT]

I'm looking at this boat that has been sitting at a marina since 2011 (!!). Have not been on board yet, marina mgr would love to be rid of it. Trying to contact owner now for permission. He won't sell (yet), but keeps paying storage.
Looks like a 1984 Lien Hwa P.O.S. to me. Mgr says water up to half way on eng more than once. It's a shame you can't see the small tree on the port deck. Any guess on value as it sits? Looks like it's all there. Any input on what it really is, etc appreciated.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

For sure less than $5,000. Probably more like around a thousand. Actual value is near 0

Like they say, "Boats are expensive and cheap boats are most expensive"

I am curious, why would you be interested in a money pit like that? Here are a couple expenses you are likely looking at.

Batteries $500
Fuel tanks $10,000
Window repair $10,000
Deck repair $10,000
New canvas $7,500
New lines and power cords $2,500
New fenders $1,000
Engine tune up and filters $2,500
Refill fuel tanks $2,500

Way more than the boat will ever bring, walk away.

pete

 

[koliver]

I was once offered a Banner 37', a sailboat on which wet moorage was being paid. After an inspection, I determined that the resale vale after a cleanup and repairs that would make it seaworthy, but with no actual improvements, estimated only at the cost of parts, using free labour, but including moorage or dry storage fees for the duration of repairs, would be less than those modest costs.
11 years, tree in the cockpit, immersed engine, suggest your costs here would exceed resale value, even if the boat is free to you.

 

[socalrider]

Flee!!!

There are lots of boats of that sort for sale which have been well maintained. They will be more expensive to buy but vastly less expensive to own, even if you value your labor at $0.00/hr. Check the classifieds here - there are some really nice examples for $20-50k as I recall. As Pete says above you can spend that in a heartbeat & the rest of the boat will still be a mess.

 

[CharlieO.]

Pete, you forgot the new stringers and bulkheads.

Personally, $0. not that someone couldn't bring it back to a useable state but a boat that gets that much water into the hull during storage is a walk away for me.

 

[Iggy]

For sure less than $5,000. Probably more like around a thousand. Actual value is near 0

Like they say, "Boats are expensive and cheap boats are most expensive"

I am curious, why would you be interested in a money pit like that? Here are a couple expenses you are likely looking at.

Batteries $500
Fuel tanks $10,000
Window repair $10,000
Deck repair $10,000
New canvas $7,500
New lines and power cords $2,500
New fenders $1,000
Engine tune up and filters $2,500
Refill fuel tanks $2,500

Way more than the boat will ever bring, walk away.

pete

Yep!

Hot water heater has not been used in 12 years. Electronics must be 15ys plus. So there is another $5K if not more!

Plus at lest one year for storage for you to work on it. Maybe even two years depending on your free time is limited. It would be cheaper for the owner to give you the boat. Or he pay to have it hauled for scrap.

If your truly new at boating, you have a big task at hand.

 

[READY]

Run away, don't walk

Pete, you forgot the new stringers and bulkheads.

Personally, $0. not that someone couldn't bring it back to a useable state but a boat that gets that much water into the hull during storage is a walk away for me.

Find out the actual cost to dispose of the boat by a professional service. Then send the quote to the owner. If you really are just looking for a project and don't care about time and money invested, offer the current owner to take it off his hands if he pays you only 90% of the disposal quote. That way if you get weeks/months/years into a restoration and want to walk away you know what it will cost.

Or save time and money and just run away from this one. The fact the owner is not motivated to sell a boat that is in such poor shape makes me think you would not get far in trying to negotiate. They must think it has significant value if they are paying the monthly storage fees.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. As they said in Forest Gump, Run Forest run.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Geez guys thanks for all the input! I agree, this is a country song "I know a heartache when I see one". Yes, but I (think I ) know something nobody else does...........
Going on board Sat, then we'll see if I'm gonna run or have a "come to Jesus meeting" with the owner. I'll post after I snoop a little. It's either a hidden gem or a napalm candidate.

 

[Comodave]

Unfortunately there are few hidden gems out there and many more napalm candidates. Just go into looking at it with a critical eye and don’t wear the rose colored glasses…

 

[socalrider]

Yes, but I (think I ) know something nobody else does...........

That's a dangerous perspective!

It's difficult to be hard headed around boats, but do yourself a favor and work up a spreadsheet with parts & labor estimates for every single system on that vessel that needs attention (which after 11 years on the hard and water damage will mean *all* of them, plus the deck and s structure). Get a professional to help if need be.

Then look around at what you can buy for that $$.

 

[READY]

Beware what you cannot see

With that much water inside over that much time...Very likely (almost guaranteed) this boat has wooden stringers and a lot of wood cored fiberglass (decks for example). I would be shocked if these don't have water in them meaning effectively you have to tear them out. The cost of core material is very high but the cost of the labor to do this is even higher.

Also the fuel tanks are likely iron and a ticking time bomb if exposed to water over time. To replace you probably have to tear out a lot of the boat. But no problem as you probably have to do that anyway.

Engines are shot if they were under water. Electrical also needs replacing.
Sure I would do the same, look at the boat (just for grins) but there is no price (even free) that I would pay to purchase this boat. If they wanted to just sign over the title and give me $10K I would still not accept it.

Your thread includes "Newbie". I would give the same advice to anyone but especially true if you don't live and breathe boating. Don't even think about accepting title on this boat. Spend some time looking around and find a boat that is in decent condition that needs a little TLC if looking for a project. One you can enjoy on the water while working on it. You will be waiting months or years to use this one and likely tire of writing checks and spending time on trying to get it to even a basic level of functionality.
You did not indicate your family situation but if others are involved/impacted that would be even more reason to avoid this one.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

That looks like a Lien Hwa Seahorse. Same as a Tung Hwa Senator, Clipper 30, etc. Best pocket trawler out there. In Bristol condition with new electronics, rebuilt engine, no deck core issues, it is worth $55K. Can you bring it back for $55K? Maybe if you buy it for under $1K and you do all the work yourself, billing your time out at 2 cents per hour and paying a yard rate of $1 per day. I'd be tempted, but I already have my own project.

 

[SIBERNUT]

I am not unknowledgeable. Master ASE mechanic, 100 ton offshore license, yadda yadda. Appreciate the warning. The marina is on my side, & apparently the wife wants it gone (BIGGIE!). Tomorrow will be a go or no-go, but it's gonna have to be cheap. More to follow.

 

[READY]

Cannot wait to hear your feedback after tomorrow

OK given you know your way around engines and boats I feel a bit better. I certainly don't know what it is that you think you know that no one else does but please share that after you see it along with your thoughts on moving forward.

If you have a cute girl to feature maybe you can create a YouTube channel for the restoration

I will watch just to feel better about only having to repair and improve a 45 year old Hatteras that has been reasonably cared for throughout it's life. I had a similar trawler (Tung Hwa) back in the late 1980s and it was a good boat, You should be able to buy a near mint condition one for $35-$55K. I don't see how you could save much money to start with the boat in question but more importantly as noted no mater what value you put on your time you will likely end up upside down. Maybe you can sell it at the end for $45K and you only have $30K in hard money invested but you will have likely worked for well below minimum wage in order to "make" $15K.

If I had your mechanic skills I would spend that time earning $75-$150/hour and then go buy a beautiful $100K boat that I could enjoy. But everyone is different and they say there is a buyer for every boat! Hope to see you out on the water one way or another.

 

[alormaria]

You have to sit down with yourself and have a talk. Do you want to go boating or do you want a project. Either is fine. Just be true to yourself.

 

[Comodave]

Well, good luck with however it goes. I love working on boats. We are on our 24th boat and I never really keep track of what it costs me when I am working on one for 2 reasons. 1. It is what I love doing. 2. I absolutely don’t want to know how much money I have sunk into a boat. I have ballpark ideas of the cost and am sometimes astounded how much I spent. Last winter I spent over $60K on a boat that was already in very good condition. But that is what I love doing. This winter it will be way less but still probably over $10K. I am trying to het it just what I want before I am no longer able to do much work on a boat.

Just make sure you understand what you are getting into. And assume that it will cost at least twice as much as you estimate fixing it up, if you are lucky, because you will find more problems as you open it up to work on.

 

[Peter B]

I am not unknowledgeable. Master ASE mechanic, 100 ton offshore license, yadda yadda. Appreciate the warning. The marina is on my side, & apparently the wife wants it gone (BIGGIE!). Tomorrow will be a go or no-go, but it's gonna have to be cheap. More to follow.

With your background, all is not necessarily lost. It has good bones, as the saying goes, in that it is a good hull design. It looks very similar to the CHB 34 I owned for 16 years, and which was a bit of a project along the way, but we loved it.

If you basically offer to take it off their hands for a peppercorn price, you could look at it in the light of someone who decides to build a boat themselves, but you have the basic hull already, and maybe a lot more is salvageable as well.

Looked at in that light, it could be fun, and the joy of completing a boat you are happy to enjoy for long enough that you are not too worried about the return on investment when you finally sell..?

Oh, and yes - welcome to the forum. Please keep us posted, and photos would be great..!

 

[SIBERNUT]

OK, looked at it inside today. Standing water was just over crank pulley. There's some good news, but this is looking like bad JUJU. Cute boat, but no AC or Gen. That's kinda good, they would be shot too. Ya' know, thousands down the tube because somebody did not have a garboard drain or didn't open it to store the boat. GUVNA! Trans took a swim, but I could probably do rods & mains onboard IF it needed them. Clean oil, did not come up & out dipstick tube. It's a zero at this point. Thanks to all!

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Seriously though.. READY has a good point. There are presently several YouTube posters who are making a living, or at least are covering expenses by doing weekly posts about their renovation efforts.

"Sailing Yaba" is my favorite, "MP" the spouse is truely a delight to watch, such a positive attitude is an inspiration! I watch the new episode every Sunday. There is also one about a British couple doing the same to a rusted old hulk sitting in the mud somewhere. To be honest, I can't stand the British accents and can't understand half of what they are saying. I rarely watch it.

If you go ahead with the project, give this some thought. People are probably interested in the nuts and bolts of a major refit like that T.T. would require.

pete

 

[SIBERNUT]

Too old to start that stuff now. Got a pic of most of the SNO plate. Don't know what size eng or trans, or whether trans is wet inside. Next move is the owner's. If I am still interested, I'd pressure the cooling syst, it's empty. And, a long tube into the bottom of the pan for a sample or pull the plug.

 

[sean9c]

Free is still too expensive. That much water in it means that likely the engine stringers are full of water as are the bulkhead bottoms on top of a whole lot of other problems. Master ASE and 100t license don't mean a lot when the job is hacking out a bunch of fiberglass in order to get to a whole lot of rotten wood. Sad to see a boat like that but some just aren't worth trying to save.

 

[Comodave]

Agree on the stringers and bulkheads. What a PITA to fix. And as they say, you can’t polish a turd…

 

[SIBERNUT]

Thanks to all who posted. I have several advantages here not mentioned in my posts. I have a great relationship w/ the marina, can stay there till 6/1/23 & maybe longer. Nothing wrong w/it that it can't float like a hole etc. I live on the water and my dock is 1/2 mile away = free dockage. I'm 77 & need a project ! (probably like a hole in the head..........but at my age if I croak somebody else can deal w/it)

 

[READY]

Sibernut. Before you take the plunge.. Have you determined an amount of money you are willing to spend to rescue this boat? Not the buy price but the out of pocket to complete the work. If the answer is $50k-$100k then you will likely be ok and have an asset with at least some reasonable market value when complete. If it is $10k-20k then you will likely stop writing checks and/or run out of money and now own a liability. Just make sure you add significant cost over runs as rarely do boat projects care about budgets nor estimates. Seems you have the time and desire so if you have the money to essentially sink into this with no expectation of a return then you should go for it. If at the end you spend less or sell for more that is just the bonus to having accomplished your goal.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Well, there's a few things I'll share with the group if I buy it. Tks for the advice, but stay tuned. (No, it does not have a kilo under the floor in a hidden compartment........)

 

[sean9c]

But why not pick a project that is worthwhile and more enjoyable

Thanks to all who posted. I have several advantages here not mentioned in my posts. I have a great relationship w/ the marina, can stay there till 6/1/23 & maybe longer. Nothing wrong w/it that it can't float like a hole etc. I live on the water and my dock is 1/2 mile away = free dockage. I'm 77 & need a project ! (probably like a hole in the head..........but at my age if I croak somebody else can deal w/it)

 

[CharlieO.]

Great! keep us updated....

 

[SIBERNUT]

Well, I used to race a Jersey Speed Skiff. The adage at the time was "Boat racing is like standing in a cold shower, while beating yourself with a stick - and smiling"
I guess some people never learn.....

 

[Juggerknot]

I'm looking at this boat that has been sitting at a marina since 2011 (!!). Have not been on board yet, marina mgr would love to be rid of it. Trying to contact owner now for permission. He won't sell (yet), but keeps paying storage.
Looks like a 1984 Lien Hwa P.O.S. to me. Mgr says water up to half way on eng more than once. It's a shame you can't see the small tree on the port deck. Any guess on value as it sits? Looks like it's all there. Any input on what it really is, etc appreciated.

If you are a masochist I'd say go for it but in all reality, this is a moneypit with no bottom in sight. Lots of turnkey Taiwanese trawlers of this era available for not much money. Be sure to investigate insurance availability first before any commitments.