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Old 08-18-2020, 10:25 AM   #41
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Camano 31' might be a good choice for you. It's a PNW boat, and there is an active Pacific Camano Owners Association you can google for their perspectives on the inside passage. (Hint, a lot of those folks use the Camano for that purpose.)

The Camano 31' remains on my list of possible next boats. There are not many 20-25 year old diesel boats, other than the Camano, that can be found for under 75K.

I do find the holding tank (14 gallons) to be too small small for our needs. If I do get a Camano, I likely would switch out the head for a composting toilet.

If this stupid pandemic ever breaks, we are hoping to start the search for our retirement home and our retirement boat. Cypress Landing has been on our list, of places to visit, for quite a while now!

Jim
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:15 AM   #42
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Apples to oranges. Compare the Hunter to a Carver. And the GB to a Hinckley. The. Youíll see the space difference. But comparing one of the most voluminous sailboats to one of the least voluminous powerboats isnít a fair comparison.
I've been thinking that comparing living spaces among boats could be fairly measured by cubic feet. I'm sure if these spaces were compared by cubic feet, the GB would have more space than the Hunter, esp. engine room space. Incidentally, people rightly concerned about engine room space might compare boats on that basis, as well. And, cubic, not square, feet is more important on boats than, say, houses, etc., for reasons I don't need to state.
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Old 08-19-2020, 04:11 AM   #43
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I like sailing, but I don't like most sailboats due to the cave-like interior. A motor sailer was the perfect fit for me. The interior is much like a trawler, with great 360 degree vision and an all weather helm station.
The bane of many smaller trawlers without stabilisers is the rolling motion whenever there is a swell on the beam. The sails negate this nicely.
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Old 08-19-2020, 07:20 AM   #44
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I agree, sailing in heavy weather is more enjoyable than motoring, so if the wife does not like the rolling motion in waves, moving to power may not be the answer. With any of my sailboats, I was never really concerned about waves. A wave coming over the bow in a sailboat can be fun, in a powerboat can be scary. So be sure you know what it is that your wife doesn't like and that the boat you buy will fix that. Also, don't be so sure that you don't want speed in a power boat. Many sailors think 7 knts is really fast, but trust me, it's also great to go 18 knts when you want to.
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Old 08-19-2020, 01:54 PM   #45
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I've been thinking that comparing living spaces among boats could be fairly measured by cubic feet. I'm sure if these spaces were compared by cubic feet, the GB would have more space than the Hunter, esp. engine room space. Incidentally, people rightly concerned about engine room space might compare boats on that basis, as well. And, cubic, not square, feet is more important on boats than, say, houses, etc., for reasons I don't need to state.
I can appreciate what you are saying about cubic feet.

Interestingly though, engine access is one thing that might actually drive me towards buying a sailboat. Many sailboats above 32' have great engine access, as the diesel engine is usually located under the steps into the saloon.

Here are pics of the engine access on a Hunter 376:, from the saloon:


from the aft stateroom:


So, I would say that the Hunter, with 6'4" headroom in the saloon, actually has much better access to the engine, than any other boat currently on my shortlist, below.

I will admit that I have a pretty eclectic list of boats on my list, mostly power and mostly gas, due to budget constraints (among them a wish to keep the budget under 75K). What is driving the indecision is that we still haven't decided where we want to retire in two years, which in turn, will affect how the boat is used.

LOL, here is my current list that no doubt will be different tomorrow: small trawler (Camano 31'); motoryacht (Carver 350/360 Mariner); aft cabin (Carver 355/356); express cruiser (Searay Sundancer 310/320/340); Hunter 375/376/380 sailboat. All different boats depending on where and how they are used. You can probably tell that I spend waaaaaay too much time on line looking at boats!

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy a sailboat over a powerboat, I wouldn't even do that on one of the sailing forums that I frequent. I think it behooves folks, however, to have as much information as possible before they make their own personal decisions.

Jim
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:34 PM   #46
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IT'S OKAY....DON'T PANIC!!!!!
Now take a deep breath. You are going through the transitional phases of a recovering sailboater. Unlike alcoholics, you can fully recover...but it will take some effort and some time. The one thing you need to say to yourself over and over and over...."It's ok to be comfortable...it's ok to be comfortable...it's ok to be comfortable"!!!!

And if you are ever just sitting there on your trawler and you find everything is just absolutely perfect and you have absolutely no further need to do anything other than enjoy it.....I would suggest getting a hammer and hitting your thumb with it. That way you can experience the misery you used to experience on your sailboat. I know it is not the same, but it helps!!! It's okay to be comfortable!!! Yes there is a bit of guilt, I know. Especially if you are Catholic like me. But it is okay to be comfortable. It is okay to run the generator. It is likely a LOT cheaper to buy, install and maintain a generator than all of the crap related to solar and wind charging systems. And get this....a generator actually WORKS!!! You get stable 120 volt power at 60Hz!!!! It doesn't even need to be sunny outside for it to work!!! I'm serious!!!!...

I think I am going to sell(to recovering sailboaters) a hammer encased in a glass tube..."Break in case of emergency"....so that way if you find yourself just having way too much fun and being way too comfortable, you can break the glass and get the hammer and smash your thumb!!!!

Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable. In fact, while making a passage to your next destination, I have yet to enjoy the trip by power on a great day as much as I have on a great sailing day. Even in stormy weather, sailing can be more comfortable as the boat handles the conditions better. Yes, you may be out in the elements more, but "comfort" means more than just being inside and dry. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but it's not fair to lump sail-boaters into a group of masochists. I should also point out that for a given budget, you can likely buy a bigger sailboat than power boat. Which would be more "comfortable"? A 30' power boat or a 38' sailboat for example?
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Old 08-20-2020, 12:42 AM   #47
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Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable...
Yes, we knew that. Mostly said in jest, but well-mixed with elements of truth, let's just say...
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Old 08-20-2020, 10:12 AM   #48
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Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable. In fact, while making a passage to your next destination, I have yet to enjoy the trip by power on a great day as much as I have on a great sailing day. Even in stormy weather, sailing can be more comfortable as the boat handles the conditions better. Yes, you may be out in the elements more, but "comfort" means more than just being inside and dry. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but it's not fair to lump sail-boaters into a group of masochists. I should also point out that for a given budget, you can likely buy a bigger sailboat than power boat. Which would be more "comfortable"? A 30' power boat or a 38' sailboat for example?
What Perter B said!!!! I will say this....sailboaters do have a guilt factor in being comfortable. They try very hard NOT to run the generator....and feel guilty if they do. Look at the hours of a generator on a sailboat....then on a powerboat. Yes you can argue it is the way the boat was set up. But I know MANY powerboaters that start the generator before starting the engines at the dock...and don't shut it down until they get to where they are going.

I'll put it to you another way. I have a very close friend that was taking his Beneteau 47 from the Houston area down to Roatan and was asking to crew. I asked him how many hours were on his generator on a boat he has owned for 10 years. His answer was 150 something hours. I politely declined the trip. IOW, off watch we would be sweating out in the middle of the Gulf with a perfectly good generator and perfectly good AC. And TBH....I could not have gone anyway but you get my point.

We do the Harvest Moon Regatta down here every year(already cancelled this year I think due to CV19). I would motor down in my boat just for the party. And on the way back we were passing a sailboat(in my Prairie 29) and they were huddled in the cockpit in foulies and drizzle and cool weather. My then wife was cooking on the grill. My radio crackles to life with a person on the other end wondering "what in the hell we were cooking?.....I am about to have a mutiny back here!!!".....it was the boat behind us perfectly downwind and smelling our dinner. We arrived powder fresh and already fed. They arrived....wet cold and hungry.

PS...I owned 3 sailboats before switching from sail to steam. I just did it at an early age. Powerboating is more comfortable for what most people use boats for. One can walk erect without have to climb over things and bang all outer extremeties...including the ole noggin!!!!
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Old 08-20-2020, 01:41 PM   #49
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As I have stated before, boats are really tools and like any tool, suited for the job. Starting around the mid-90's in British Columbia, observed at the Vancouver and Seattle Boat Shows, sail has declined over time, think weather and speed. When I attended the Vancouver Boat show in the mid-80's, the great majority of boats on display were sailboats. The last boat show I attended in 2018, the majority are now power boats.

Not sure how much of this is said in jest, but honestly, sailing does not have to be uncomfortable. In fact, while making a passage to your next destination, I have yet to enjoy the trip by power on a great day as much as I have on a great sailing day.


Sitting in an open cockpit in the PNW, coastal BC and Alaska is not the same as sitting in a cockpit in Connecticut, Texas or Florida. Rain in our areas is a real reality.

I watch videos of boat coming and going in Haulover Inlet out of Miami. These boats, most of them are center consul or bow riders. And in the video below you will see how dangerous some of them are with kids in the bow area plowing through the waves, but I digress. These boats make sense in a hot climate with much more sun than I would ever see in two years living along coastal BC. Most of these boats are out for the day or marina bound, or beach bound. These boats don't need much amenities to have fun. And my boat would not make much sense in these waters. The boat is equipped to be on the hook for two weeks without a generator on the hook, holed up in some smaller more isolated anchorages. For me the emphasis is protection from the rain, warmth, enough power to maintain my electrical goodies with an emphasis on solar and a fuel cell.

In fact as I type this, we are having one of those west coast rains that will last through two days most likely (typical at this time of the year).

And stability of a power boat is not universal, flybridge heavy (higher center of gravity) is going to be less stable, rocking and rolling in conditions found here in the Strait of Juan De Fuca, Strait of Georgia, Johnstone Strait, et. al. Winds in these straits are well known. The advantage of a larger express cruiser is that the center of gravity is lower (with no flybride) and traveling at 10 - 12 knots surprisingly can provide a smoother ride in less than pleasant ocean conditions than going 7 or 8 knots.

But due to the room inside, I think a trawler is better for something like the Great Loop, a lot of protected waters. Of course you can travel throughout the loop in an express cruiser like a Backcove, but I'd prefer something a bit larger.

The only comfort in a sailboat in BC is in the summer when the sun is out (but usually very little wind). Then the cockpit is a great place to be, except for the sunburn. But as I type this, no way - today, with all the rain we've had and are going to have - would I want to be in a sailboat cockpit.

Haulover Inlet, Miami: (Notice the kids in front, violent waves, no life preserver)

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Old 08-20-2020, 08:30 PM   #50
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I'll grant you this rsn48. If I had to go out in a really stinker of a bad weather event, give me a self-righting sail boat, with a nice, heavy, and well-attached keel, anytime..!
However, preferably, and given the choice, I don't go out in that kinda stuff. Just sayin'...
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