Howdy partner ;-)

[Eric H]

Eric is my name and Trawlers are my game, ok let's be serious. Born and raised in Sweden, way up north (65.5848° N, 22.1567° E). Lived about 7 years in Denton, TX but moved back home in 2004.

Body = 61 years old
Mind = 30'ish
Grown daughter say I'm 12 sometimes.

I was going to retire in Thailand with my Thai wife (married 17 years), but lately I figure out that living on a Trawler in the Meds would be nicer. Especially financely due to the fact we are EU citizen. Cheaper boat insurance, almost free healthcare, cheap cell covering etc etc.

So I got about 4 years left before my retirement, been starting to check out different trawlers. My budget is about $50-60' for a 40 footer (12m), I don't wanna go bigger then 40 because all the moring and hard fees in the Meds go up a lot with bigger boats then 40 feet.

This is NOT a wanted post, just telling you guys about myself.

I was basically born on the water, my parents had a summer house out on one of the beautiful islands in Luleå ( no roads). Got my first boat when I was 14, 4 meters and 25 hp. I got a Inshore Diploma and have had a couple of bigger boats during my life span.

The problem I'm running in to at this moment is, all the boats I'm interested in are in the US or Canada. I keep surfing sale ads in Europe but not much for sale here that fits my criteria. I know I could just float over the pawn but I would like to get what ever boat I'm buying up on the hard and go over it with a fine tooth come first. I'm an old school mechanic with all kind of skills ;-)

I guess that's a little about me, thanks for a great forum. Cheers from Sweden.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard.

 

[Osprey69]

Welcome and good luck with your search. Perhaps a trusted local (If you can call The US local) agent to preliminarily screen your targets?

 

[OldDan1943]

Welcome to the 'funny farm'.
Old school mechanic? Look for a NON-project boat with a naturally aspirated diesel.
Way way back in time, I too considered myself a shade tree mechanic on gas and later diesel. With the advent of electronic controls, other than basic trouble shooting and filter changing, I leave it the 'boys in the white coats'.

I wish you great sucess in your search for a 40ft boat in your price range.

 

[Eric H]

Welcome to the 'funny farm'.
Old school mechanic? Look for a NON-project boat with a naturally aspirated diesel.
Way way back in time, I too considered myself a shade tree mechanic on gas and later diesel. With the advent of electronic controls, other than basic trouble shooting and filter changing, I leave it the 'boys in the white coats'.

I wish you great sucess in your search for a 40ft boat in your price range.

Yes sir, in the price range I'm looking for. All you get is the old non electronic Diesels, I refuse to buy a gas boat. I prefer Volvo diesel engines, go figure why hehehe. I have read a lot on the forum about how hard you guys have it finding parts for the old Volvo marine engines. Plenty of them here in Sweden, maybe I should start an export business to finance my boat ;-) ;-)

I found a couple of nice 40 feet that I really liked for about 60k, I do have some special criterias and the boats I found do have them all. To bad I don't have the cash at the moment :-(

When I lived in Denton, TX I was a auto tech for Huffines Dodge. I got really fed up with all the electronics in the cars that Chrysler refused to pay diagnostic time for. So I quit working on cars except my own

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsTuMN51-dwaI3PR42oL1Rw

Ok, so my approval of the post finally worked...sorry it is also repeated below, because it looked like it did not.

 

[ScottC]

Welcome aboard, Eric!
I wish you the best of luck with your trawler search!

A few comments I can offer:


- As you probably have already noticed, the Pandemic has sent used boat prices up 10-20%++ here in Sweden and in the US...and I suppose elsewhere.
- If you find a 40' foot trawler/ish boat for $50-$60k, it will likely be fairly old and I would suggest having an additional $50k budget to bring it up to date, make enhancements and deal with any surprises. If you spend some time looking around Trawler Forum, you might run into a memorable -- but unfortunately true -- statement by a member. It goes something like this: "The most expensive boat you can own is the cheapest boat you can buy" (Apologies to the author of this - I can't remember to whom I should give credit).
- After having cruised some in the Mediterranean, I can tell you that Nordic used boats, in general, seem to be in much better condition than those in the Med. The Med sun is brutal on fiberglass -- and sadly, so many seem to ignore the importance of wax protection. Also, the Med is FAR more salty (4% salinity, I think) than what we're used to up north. This accelerates deterioration all around.
- I presume you know about www.blocket.se? If not, go there and keep an eye on it not only for used boats of interest but for shared ownership in boats. I see this come up 5-10 times per year on Blocket. Somebody is dividing a nice 50' Defever trawler in the Med 6 ways, for example. This might be suitable for you, if you are only thinking about 2 months a year of cruising. Could be right in your budget range for a 40 footer -- but shared ownership comes with unique headaches (scheduling, maintenance, maintenance fees, etc.)
- Unless you anchor most of the time, plan on budgeting a hefty amount for marina stays in the Med. In peak season, I can tell you Spain, France & Italy can run 60€-120€++ per night for a 40' boat.
- Buying a used boat in the US or Canada and importing it to Sweden is an option - but, as you may have already learned, it comes with great cost in addition to risk. Beyond the obvious shipping costs, you need to get it CE certified before anybody here will insure it. This can be a very expensive process. You will most likely need to pay Swedish VAT (unless you buy an antique boat...which may have lighter rules on VAT (???).

P.S. I worked for a short period of time in Denton too... There was this place on Airport Rd...

 

[OldDan1943]

I will gladly recommend an American tug but, I doubt if you will find one plus it will be 4 or 5 times your budgeted amount.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

 

[fgarriso]

Welcome aboard!

 

[Eric H]

Thanks y'all, I quoted a post earlier but haven't seen it yet. So I'm not quoting anything more.

 

[Peter B]

Thanks y'all, I quoted a post earlier but haven't seen it yet. So I'm not quoting anything more.

Eric, your invisible post was what should have been #5, but was automatically unapproved because you included a live link, which is verboten for very newbies. I have tried to approve it, but it is not playing ball. I will have to look into why it does not appear.
Meantime, it was in reply to post #4 by Old Dan, and should have read...

Originally Posted by OldDan1943
Welcome to the 'funny farm'.
Old school mechanic? Look for a NON-project boat with a naturally aspirated diesel.
Way way back in time, I too considered myself a shade tree mechanic on gas and later diesel. With the advent of electronic controls, other than basic trouble shooting and filter changing, I leave it the 'boys in the white coats'.

I wish you great success in your search for a 40ft boat in your price range.


Yes sir, in the price range I'm looking for. All you get is the old non electronic Diesels, I refuse to buy a gas boat. I prefer Volvo diesel engines, go figure why hehehe. I have read a lot on the forum about how hard you guys have it finding parts for the old Volvo marine engines. Plenty of them here in Sweden, maybe I should start an export business to finance my boat ;-) ;-)

I found a couple of nice 40 feet that I really liked for about 60k, I do have some special criterias and the boats I found do have them all. To bad I don't have the cash at the moment :-(

When I lived in Denton, TX I was a auto tech for Huffines Dodge. I got really fed up with all the electronics in the cars that Chrysler refused to pay diagnostic time for. So I quit working on cars except my own

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsT...dwaI3PR42oL1Rw

 

[Eric H]

Welcome aboard, Eric!
I wish you the best of luck with your trawler search!

A few comments I can offer:

- If you find a 40' foot trawler/ish boat for $50-$60k, it will likely be fairly old and I would suggest having an additional $50k budget to bring it up to date, make enhancements and deal with any surprises. If you spend some time looking around Trawler Forum, you might run into a memorable -- but unfortunately true -- statement by a member. It goes something like this: "The most expensive boat you can own is the cheapest boat you can buy" (Apologies to the author of this - I can't remember to whom I should give credit).

Yes sir they are fairly old, like 89-90 year models. But I found some really good ones at 40-41 feet for about 65K Euro, they did have some minor issues but that's something I'm planning for. I'm not that kind of person that can sit still on a finished boat and just not doing something, so refurbish an older boat will give me something to do and I get it done the way I wanted it done, like perfection.

- After having cruised some in the Mediterranean, I can tell you that Nordic used boats, in general, seem to be in much better condition than those in the Med. The Med sun is brutal on fiberglass -- and sadly, so many seem to ignore the importance of wax protection. Also, the Med is FAR more salty (4% salinity, I think) than what we're used to up north. This accelerates deterioration all around.

Thanks for the input, learned something new

- I presume you know about www.blocket.se? If not, go there and keep an eye on it not only for used boats of interest but for shared ownership in boats. I see this come up 5-10 times per year on Blocket. Somebody is dividing a nice 50' Defever trawler in the Med 6 ways, for example. This might be suitable for you, if you are only thinking about 2 months a year of cruising. Could be right in your budget range for a 40 footer -- but shared ownership comes with unique headaches (scheduling, maintenance, maintenance fees, etc.)

Yeah been checking Blocket, no shared boats. I'm moving on the boat 24/7 for the rest of my life.

- Unless you anchor most of the time, plan on budgeting a hefty amount for marina stays in the Med. In peak season, I can tell you Spain, France & Italy can run 60€-120€++ per night for a 40' boat.

Plan was to anchor 90% of the time, just use the dingy to get a shore. I notice that Greece have decent pricing even in peak season on moring. Don't have to use the best harbor all the time.

- Buying a used boat in the US or Canada and importing it to Sweden is an option - but, as you may have already learned, it comes with great cost in addition to risk. Beyond the obvious shipping costs, you need to get it CE certified before anybody here will insure it. This can be a very expensive process. You will most likely need to pay Swedish VAT (unless you buy an antique boat...which may have lighter rules on VAT (???).

P.S. I worked for a short period of time in Denton too... There was this place on Airport Rd...

I been reading up on CE and most of the Swedish boat insurance company's
have no problem with non CE boats. They just adjust the payout if something would happen that's related to CE cert, e.i running aground have nothing to do with a CE cert so the payout would be the same as for a CE boat. Fire in the electrical system (110/220) is another story unless you have proof that the system was installed correctly. There is CE cert to buy in Germany for about 500 Euro, just a piece of paper but insurance company's have no ability to check if it's a fake or real. A legit CE cert in Sweden is about 2500-3000 Euro, so if you get a boat 25000 Euro cheaper in the States then in Europe, then a 3000 Euro CE cert is worth it.

I do really appreciate your input but you making it seem harder then it is, cheers.

 

[Eric H]

I will gladly recommend an American tug but, I doubt if you will find one plus it will be 4 or 5 times your budgeted amount.

Yeah I would love a Tug, but you need a bigger one, over 40', and that is way over my budget hehehe

 

[twistedtree]

Y

I been reading up on CE and most of the Swedish boat insurance company's
have no problem with non CE boats. They just adjust the payout if something would happen that's related to CE cert, e.i running aground have nothing to do with a CE cert so the payout would be the same as for a CE boat. Fire in the electrical system (110/220) is another story unless you have proof that the system was installed correctly. There is CE cert to buy in Germany for about 500 Euro, just a piece of paper but insurance company's have no ability to check if it's a fake or real. A legit CE cert in Sweden is about 2500-3000 Euro, so if you get a boat 25000 Euro cheaper in the States then in Europe, then a 3000 Euro CE cert is worth it.

I do really appreciate your input but you making it seem harder then it is, cheers.

I think the certification cost will be small compared to the cost of bringing the boat into compliance with CE.

 

[ranger58sb]

- Buying a used boat in the US or Canada and importing it to Sweden is an option - but, as you may have already learned, it comes with great cost in addition to risk. Beyond the obvious shipping costs, you need to get it CE certified before anybody here will insure it. This can be a very expensive process. You will most likely need to pay Swedish VAT (unless you buy an antique boat...which may have lighter rules on VAT (???).

I'd have thought the electrical system differences would be a major hurdle, too.

-Chris

 

[ScottC]

Fire in the electrical system (110/220) is another story unless you have proof that the system was installed correctly. There is CE cert to buy in Germany for about 500 Euro, just a piece of paper but insurance company's have no ability to check if it's a fake or real. A legit CE cert in Sweden is about 2500-3000 Euro, so if you get a boat 25000 Euro cheaper in the States then in Europe, then a 3000 Euro CE cert is worth it.

I do really appreciate your input but you making it seem harder then it is, cheers.

If you end up cutting any corners on CE, just make sure you clearly understand whether or not your insurance company will limit payout in the event of a liability claim (for example a fire on your boat spreads to other boats in the marina).


And with this, I will stop throwing obstacles your way...

 

[ScottC]

Though they are near Malmö, not Luleå, you might want to consider talking to these guys:
JF Marin - Hem
They stored and serviced my boat for many years and I know they used to import used boats from the U.S. Not sure whether they are doing this now...but they might be able to provide some tips, contacts, etc. that could be of use if you locate your dream boat in the U.S.

 

[Moonfish]

Welcome aboard, and enjoy the search!

 

[Eric H]

I think the certification cost will be small compared to the cost of bringing the boat into compliance with CE.

Yeah you're right, the biggest obstacle would be if engines needs to be replaced due to emissions. But a lot of older boats already have had the engines replaced by newer versions that might be Cert in Europe.

I'd have thought the electrical system differences would be a major hurdle, too.

-Chris

Not really, most generators are both 110 and 220 volt. Electrical cables for 110 are bigger then for 220 so no need to replace just for cable size. Outlet sockets need to be replaced, all 220 sockets in Sweden are CE cert.
But If I bought a 110 volt boat from US I was planning of replacing all the 110/220 cables to make it a Euro marine standard anyway, not a very big cost if you do it your self and have a electrical cert friend do the final inspection.

And with this, I will stop throwing obstacles your way...


Though they are near Malmö, not Luleå, you might want to consider talking to these guys:
JF Marin - Hem
They stored and serviced my boat for many years and I know they used to import used boats from the U.S. Not sure whether they are doing this now...but they might be able to provide some tips, contacts, etc. that could be of use if you locate your dream boat in the U.S.

Ops! Did I hit a nerv there, don't take stuff on the Internet so personal. Anyway thanks for the link, I will send them an email

 

[twistedtree]

I think either your budget or your plans need change. You mentioned a $50k-$60k budget. I expect it will cost you at least half of that to ship a boat from the US to Europe. And I think just bringing an electrical system into CE compliance could cost you as much again. Then there is the rest of the boat. I really have no idea what's involved, and what level of compliance is required for an older boat. I doubt an engine or generator needs to meet today's emissions standards, for example, but it probably needs to meet the standard from when the boat was built. But maybe not? What about plumbing and thruhulls? Does that need to be reworked to some extent? You mentioned changing outlets. That's the easy part. What about breakers and switches? Are CE breakers even available in the form factor used by the boat? And what about the fuel system? Hose type, locations of tank ports (top vs bottom), shutoffs, filters and fittings? Could they require replacement? It could be a very deep hole, and I'd personally want to have a really good handle on it in advance.


For you stated goal of actively cruising, I could easily see it costing several times your budget to get a suitable boat.

 

[Eric H]

I think either your budget or your plans need change. You mentioned a $50k-$60k budget. I expect it will cost you at least half of that to ship a boat from the US to Europe. And I think just bringing an electrical system into CE compliance could cost you as much again. Then there is the rest of the boat. I really have no idea what's involved, and what level of compliance is required for an older boat. I doubt an engine or generator needs to meet today's emissions standards, for example, but it probably needs to meet the standard from when the boat was built. But maybe not? What about plumbing and thruhulls? Does that need to be reworked to some extent? You mentioned changing outlets. That's the easy part. What about breakers and switches? Are CE breakers even available in the form factor used by the boat? And what about the fuel system? Hose type, locations of tank ports (top vs bottom), shutoffs, filters and fittings? Could they require replacement? It could be a very deep hole, and I'd personally want to have a really good handle on it in advance.


For you stated goal of actively cruising, I could easily see it costing several times your budget to get a suitable boat.

Hi there, I never sad my "budget" was 50-60K. I was looking to buy a boat for 50-60K, my budget is 100K but I don't want to spend all of it on a boat.
About shipping a boat from the States is not my primary goal, as I stated I'm just looking around for time being. I got 4-5 years before the purchase is going to be final.

Boats imported to EU after 2017 need to comply to these standards:

Recreational Craft Directive 2013/53/eu. I 2013/53/eu

Like I stated in a previous post, I like to have the boat on the hard first so I can check all the stuff you talking about. Sorry I wasn't perfectly clear but if I replace the 220 cables and outlets, the panels - fuses - etc will also be replaced to meet a CE cert Euro standard before any CE cert and splash.

I am capable of doing all the work with an upgrade or conversion myself, I do have the knowledge and skills to do so myself. Attached some pics of electrical upgrade I did in our house and garage, same standard that's going in a boat for 220 volt.

There are company's here in Sweden that do the CE Certification and they have a really good website where they explain everything and have really FAQ and pricing. The sites are in Swedish so no use of linking it.

I do thank you for your concern and questions ;-) I also attached a pics of a previous boat I had, before rebuild.

1972 Viking 28CC with dual Chrysler 318 gas engines and straight shafts with a V-drive, this was in mid 90'is and I rebuild the whole boat including both engines.

 

[ScottC]

Hi Eric,
I saw this come on Blocket today and thought of you. Right in your size range. Close to budget range. Looks sturdy. Steel. I know nothing about it other than I've seen it out on the Öresund over the years. I have a suspicion that one of the commercial fishermen in Limhamn was living on it when he wasn't on his fishing boat.



https://www.blocket.se/annons/skane/meteor_limhamn/99768099


About $66,500 USD or 59,000 EUR for the benefit of others reading this thread. Steel.

 

[Eric H]

Hi Eric,
I saw this come on Blocket today and thought of you. Right in your size range. Close to budget range. Looks sturdy. Steel. I know nothing about it other than I've seen it out on the Öresund over the years. I have a suspicion that one of the commercial fishermen in Limhamn was living on it when he wasn't on his fishing boat.



https://www.blocket.se/annons/skane/meteor_limhamn/99768099


About $66,500 USD or 59,000 EUR for the benefit of others reading this thread. Steel.

Thanks, yeah I saw that too. But it's to big, everything over 12 meters get so expensive to moor. There is a steep price difference between 12 and 13 up meters on marinas.

Also I didn't like the aft cabin, If I bought that boat I have to start with remodeling the aft cabin..........EXPENSIVE hehehe

 

[Mako]

@Eric_H,
First off it’s really funny seeing a Swedish guy trying to do the cowboy-thing [emoji846]

Regarding to a 40ft trawler on your budget and timeframe, American prices, you can pickup a Taiwanese trawler project boat in the $25-40k range. Strip it completely down and rebuild it on land over the next 4 years. Spread your costs over many years.

 

[OldDan1943]

Haven't heard from the man rebuilding the sunken Russian trawler, in a long time.

 

[Eric H]

@Eric_H,
First off it’s really funny seeing a Swedish guy trying to do the cowboy-thing [emoji846]

Regarding to a 40ft trawler on your budget and timeframe, American prices, you can pickup a Taiwanese trawler project boat in the $25-40k range. Strip it completely down and rebuild it on land over the next 4 years. Spread your costs over many years.

Hahaha, I'm doing my best to make you guys smile ;-)

Yeah I already found some DIY 40ft on the other side of the pond for a really good pricing, I seriously thought of doing just that. Use the time I have to make it the way I want, the problem is all these good DIY boats are in the US and the shipping cost would probably eat up a big chunk of my budget.

 

[Mako]

One suggestion is focus on steel boats. When it comes to resale, Northern Europeans aren't as afraid of steel as Americans are. A project boat may work to your advantage because if you want a long remaining life out of it then you'd want to completely strip it down and cut/weld/blast/paint it.

Perhaps look up the thread about that Russian guy, who is doing exactly that.

 

[Eric H]

One suggestion is focus on steel boats. When it comes to resale, Northern Europeans aren't as afraid of steel as Americans are. A project boat may work to your advantage because if you want a long remaining life out of it then you'd want to completely strip it down and cut/weld/blast/paint it.

Perhaps look up the thread about that Russian guy, who is doing exactly that.

Yes sir, I been looking at steel boats here in Europe but nothing I like so far. I do have MIG - TIG - Stick and plasma cutter so no problem working on a steel hull ;-)