Closing in on oursearch for new boat

[hrk]

We are a couple residing in washington DC. 60’s. newbie - transitioning from sailing to boating. Until recently, we owned 40’ Freedom for over twelve years and cruised between Cheasapeake bay and Penobscot bay in Maine. Most of last five years summer were spent down east Maine. As we got older, and wife got serious about retirement one day soon, we started thinking of transitioning to live-aboard life style. For living comfort and age issues, owning trawlers is where we are. We rented grand banks 46, few months ago and motored in San Juan islands -washington stage. Loved the experience, so we are now searching seriously for a boat. Our plans are to mostly stay on east coast, Maine to Florida and Bahamas in first year of being full-time cruiser but we do see ourselves, going to caribbean (we sailed there for quite a few years and love warm waters, different culture, food etc.) and some day cross panama canal and explore west coast too including Alaska. Being a newbie and having taken a decision to go for full displacement, new build of semi-custom boat, we look forward to advice from fellow trawlers on this forum on whole lot of issues as we embark on a new journey. Current home is washington DC.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard and good luck with your search.

 

[Scooby5959]

Three names George Bueller ,Diesel duck ,Seahorse marine Google those names you won’t be sorry

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

 

[Judy at JWY]

Welcome! Can you please provide additional information. What size range? Will you be traveling as a couple most of the time or will guests/family cruising be common? What is your time frame? What is your budget?

 

[hrk]

We are looking at 50-60 feet. We saw some 50’s Kadey Krogen and Norhavn but think 60’ will suit us more. This would be our first and last boat. Will travel mostly as couple. Children are grown and not in to boating. Grand children and son/spouse may visit and spend some time on boat but we think 2 cabin layout is what we will go for. Our search had accelerated in past few months. And, itis currently leading us to KK or nordhavn. Time frame is - moving to full time living on boat in late 2023. Budget is not a big constraint for us, we simply want something that is comfortable, and solidly built but also suitable for couple. Advise I seek is going to be mostly on what to watch out for as embark on new boat building process.

 

[Judy at JWY]

Thanks for the additional information - all helpful. There are numerous manufacturers/yards where you can customize or custom build. I would recommend your hiring a (1) an attorney to review any build contracts (2) a project manager, someone particularly with experience in new builds (3) an independent consultant, a long-range cruiser expert to advise. If you are concerned about resale value, maybe consult with a broker. For example, a two-stateroom 60 footer might be harder to sell.

 

[O C Diver]

Depending on the manufacturer and model, late 2023 may not be possible. Which is more important, boat or time frame. Keep in mind, new boats of that size often have a lengthy commissioning / fixing problems period.

Ted

 

[hollywood8118]

New build or used boat?
As new power folks when asked the same question in the past I would suggest a newer boat that was owned by a couple that extensively cruised the boat and were on top of its maintenance. The bugs should be already worked out and you wont go through the long learning curve figuring out what the boat needs. You may and will need need to replace worn equipment but the boat will already be set up and takes a lot of the guesswork out. Remember the age isnt important, how it was maintained is the key.
The big Nordhavns, Krogens, and selens are great boats.
Hollywood

 

[mvweebles]

Any chance you would do the Great Loop? Air draft matters. If you are prone to anchoring out vs marinas, dinghy size, stowage, and boarding access is important, especially if you have a pet.

Energy is an interesting topic - many 60 footers in your intended cruising grounds run their generator 24x7 (or close to it) due to large fridges, ice makers, and need for A/C due to lackluster natural ventilation and/or dehumidification.

Sounds like you enjoyed the GB46 you rented. Great boats but there are cautions for lower latitudes. Brightwork and teak decks carry enhanced maintenance. In my opinion, classic trunk style trawlers do not have great outdoor lounging space for areas with intense sun - only covered space is on flybridge which can feel a bit disconnected. I personally like well covered aft decks, being close to waterline is preferable (KK or N) than sundeck style where you're over an aft stateroom, but that's personal taste.

Stairs. Many trawlers have steep, long companionways. Something to think about. Not a lot of ways to mitigate, but some are worse than others.

Someone up-thread mentioned the Diesel Duck. Definitely a good idea as they are a fairly extreme example of an offshore capable powerboat. Cult like following especially for people who worry about Perfect Storm weather conditions. Personslly, way too many compromises for my tastes and I'm fairly comfortable traveling within three day weather windows so there is no upside to the compromises, but might strike you as a perfect example. Point being is looking at a DD would likely help you make some decisions either for or against.

Another good boat to look at yo help formulate likes/dislikes is the Defever 44. This is a real sleeper of a boat. On the surface, looks like a traditional Taiwan trawler. Far from it. One of the best engine rooms in its class, excellent range, and very nice layout- large interior for its size. It's a good example of a "sundeck" style boats where thr outdoor living space is above rhe aft stateroom so you can see if that suffices.

Stabilization is, in my opinion, a necessity. Simply not optional for open water passages. There are several options. Worthy of a several threads on its own.

Circling back to the Grand Banks, there is a couple with two children who are currently cruising the Caribbean. I think they're in their 4th or 5th year with their 1980s vintage GB42 classic. Previously they circumnavigated on a small sail catamaran, and also did extensive cruising on a 43 foot monohull. She's a great photographer, he's a great writer. You may want to visit Bumfuzzle.com to get a glimpse into their experiences.

Good luck and welcome to TF

Peter

 

[bowball]

Seems to me like the KK and Nordhavn are very different boats. For your stated use I’d prefer the KK.

If you are able to justify the price, the Fleming is another great choice. Either the 55 or beamier 58. Three cabins. Minimal stairs. Nice covered aft deck. Beautiful workmanship. Easy egress to floating docks and if fixed with tidal changes using the exit on the Portuguese bridge. Wide covered side decks.

For teak cap rails they have a new synthetic called Burrwood which looks great. Wonderful support on both coasts by Burr or Hovey or Delta Marine.

Expensive but very good resale. New orders are out to 2024.

And though you wanted bigger, I’ve really liked the looks of the Helmsman for coastal cruising. Their biggest model looks quite nice. (My favorite though from the layout is their 38E which I think I could be quite happy with)

 

[backinblue]

I would also take a good look at the Helmsman for a new build. However, if my budget was truly unlimited, there may be better options. But I think there is a lot of value in what Helmsman offers for the price.

 

[Scooby5959]

UGG !!!!!! Helmsman Nice boat for a price ,Great trophy boat or dock queen you don’t care about fuel economy or range if spending a lot of time tied to the dock ,these are not trawlers As I would define a trawler the word trawler is more of a marketing term as it is very evident by the name of this platform ,basically doesn’t mean much .well I’m still Clinging to the notion of a true trawler . whatever floats your boat

 

[Scooby5959]

Any chance you would do the Great Loop? Air draft matters. If you are prone to anchoring out vs marinas, dinghy size, stowage, and boarding access is important, especially if you have a pet.

Energy is an interesting topic - many 60 footers in your intended cruising grounds run their generator 24x7 (or close to it) due to large fridges, ice makers, and need for A/C due to lackluster natural ventilation and/or dehumidification.

Sounds like you enjoyed the GB46 you rented. Great boats but there are cautions for lower latitudes. Brightwork and teak decks carry enhanced maintenance. In my opinion, classic trunk style trawlers do not have great outdoor lounging space for areas with intense sun - only covered space is on flybridge which can feel a bit disconnected. I personally like well covered aft decks, being close to waterline is preferable (KK or N) than sundeck style where you're over an aft stateroom, but that's personal taste.

Stairs. Many trawlers have steep, long companionways. Something to think about. Not a lot of ways to mitigate, but some are worse than others.

Someone up-thread mentioned the Diesel Duck. Definitely a good idea as they are a fairly extreme example of an offshore capable powerboat. Cult like following especially for people who worry about Perfect Storm weather conditions. Personslly, way too many compromises for my tastes and I'm fairly comfortable traveling within three day weather windows so there is no upside to the compromises, but might strike you as a perfect example. Point being is looking at a DD would likely help you make some decisions either for or against.

Another good boat to look at yo help formulate likes/dislikes is the Defever 44. This is a real sleeper of a boat. On the surface, looks like a traditional Taiwan trawler. Far from it. One of the best engine rooms in its class, excellent range, and very nice layout- large interior for its size. It's a good example of a "sundeck" style boats where thr outdoor living space is above rhe aft stateroom so you can see if that suffices.

Stabilization is, in my opinion, a necessity. Simply not optional for open water passages. There are several options. Worthy of a several threads on its own.

Circling back to the Grand Banks, there is a couple with two children who are currently cruising the Caribbean. I think they're in their 4th or 5th year with their 1980s vintage GB42 classic. Previously they circumnavigated on a small sail catamaran, and also did extensive cruising on a 43 foot monohull. She's a great photographer, he's a great writer. You may want to visit Bumfuzzle.com to get a glimpse into their experiences.

Good luck and welcome to TF

Peter

Trader :lol:I’m so over these overpowered Semi displacement coastal cruisers .Where you put more thoughts into the towel rack in the head than what engine you have . to each his own

 

[O C Diver]

UGG !!!!!! Helmsman Nice boat for a price ,Great trophy boat or dock queen you don’t care about fuel economy or range if spending a lot of time tied to the dock ,these are not trawlers As I would define a trawler the word trawler is more of a marketing term as it is very evident by the name of this platform ,basically doesn’t mean much .well I’m still Clinging to the notion of a true trawler . whatever floats your boat

Really?

What total BS!

Ted

 

[backinblue]

Trader :lol:I’m so over these overpowered Semi displacement coastal cruisers .Where you put more thoughts into the towel rack in the head than what engine you have . to each his own

And where does a Nordic Tug 26 fit?

 

[sunchaser]

New build or used boat?
As new power folks when asked the same question in the past I would suggest a newer boat that was owned by a couple that extensively cruised the boat and were on top of its maintenance. The bugs should be already worked out and you wont go through the long learning curve figuring out what the boat needs. You may and will need need to replace worn equipment but the boat will already be set up and takes a lot of the guesswork out. Remember the age isnt important, how it was maintained is the key.
The big Nordhavns, Krogens, and selens are great boats.
Hollywood

HRK
This! Stick with serious looking at these 3 brands and benchmarks will be established. Keep in mind you're looking at 7 figure boats.

 

[backinblue]

Any thoughts on Northwest Trawlers?

 

[Scooby5959]

And where does a Nordic Tug 26 fit?

I figured that was coming .I bought my baby tug Because I move to the coast and built a house , winters are brutal down here no place to keep a boat I would have to drive 2 1/2 three hours to the nearest covered mortgage ,dealbreaker . so I sold my 38th aft cabin and looked for a boat that I could trailer and keep on my property .I had my 38 footer on my property but I sold the house and built another one and the boat had to go . so I looked at various Trailerable boats.Ranger, seaDory, fisher I really like the fishers ,motor sailor whatever you wanna call them .I settled on the Nordic 26 put it on a nice trailer .I figured it was a better candidate for a refit so I would have a boat the way I wanted it . I can go on and on the haters on this website Are probably already rolling Their eyes

 

[mvweebles]

I can go on and on the haters on this website Are probably already rolling Their eyes

Doubt I'm a 'hater' but definitely rolling my eyes. Not because you want what you want, but because your comments about "real trawlers" come off as so judgemental. Add-in a tiny character boat like an NT26 and, well, how could anyone not roll their eyes?

 

[Scooby5959]

Doubt I'm a 'hater' but definitely rolling my eyes. Not because you want what you want, but because your comments about "real trawlers" come off as so judgemental. Add-in a tiny character boat like an NT26 and, well, how could anyone not roll their eyes?

I’m not thin skinned so I don’t really care to be honest with you however your eyes rolling are probably from that round bottom boat that you have .I’m sure everything rolls after a while ,I wasn’t trying to come off as judgemental I was being judgemental .I would think a guy that owns a boat like you do would know what a real trawler is , maybe I should quit using that word and use troller instead .As far as my nordic goes Not my first choice however that’s where things are right now . I’m going to refit it with my vision and at the very least there won’t be another one like it .For better or worse . I guess I’m not allowed to have strong opinions I don’t agree with the haters all I can say is get over it ,get used to it .It’s just a Opinion nothing to get your panties in a bunch over

 

[bowball]

Trader :lol:I’m so over these overpowered Semi displacement coastal cruisers .Where you put more thoughts into the towel rack in the head than what engine you have . to each his own

I’m one of those “overpowered semi displacement coastal cruiser” that you dislike. But you have more horsepower per pound of displacement than I do - complete with a smokestack. But I do like the look of yours too. .

Everyone gets what they like and works for them. We don’t have to always agree. Just don’t throw stones…

 

[mvweebles]

I’m not thin skinned so I don’t really care to be honest with you however your eyes rolling are probably from that round bottom boat that you have .I’m sure everything rolls after a while ,I wasn’t trying to come off as judgemental I was being judgemental .I would think a guy that owns a boat like you do would know what a real trawler is , maybe I should quit using that word and use troller instead .As far as my nordic goes Not my first choice however that’s where things are right now . I’m going to refit it with my vision and at the very least there won’t be another one like it .For better or worse . I guess I’m not allowed to have strong opinions I don’t agree with the haters all I can say is get over it ,get used to it .It’s just a Opinion nothing to get your panties in a bunch over

You found a boat that works for you and your circumstances which is great. i have had my boat for 24 years and have purchased her a second and third time with refits over the years. That is true love!

You are not the first prickly newbie on TF who spent too much time reading Beebe or Beuhler thinking you now know what is and is not a "Real Trawler." I give you credit for at least owning a boat.

The problem I have with some folks is not their ignorance - we all started somewhere. But their arrogance, the sense that somehow they are the first to discover fire. There is a line between enthusiastic and arrogance. When crossed, I have to wonder if the author is speaking from fear, usually being clueless on weather forecasting which means they have no idea how to safely move a boat long distances. They rely on luck so naturally they need a tank to defend against the unknown. Ignorance is one thing, but when it crosses into judgemental arrogance it becomes annoying. They always seem to have some sort of dismissive retort - in your case "Haters - No one likes strong opinions." There are many strong opinions here. Even arrogance pops up with regularity, though usually from people with pre-established creds (vs self-proclaimed creds). But from time to time, someone shows up who is either a troll or so self-important they believe their opinion is right even in the face of monumental evidence to the contrary. The result is a conversational bully and genuinely abrassive contributor.

At any rate, the OP came to TF looking for helpful opinions on boat selection. For some reason, I always forget to mention the Flemings that were mentioned up-thread. These are a great choice for many and would be a blast to bop around the Bahamas or Caribbean. As a suggestion, Tony Fleming has a YouTube channel that has some great footage of long trips, albeit in their 65-footers.

Peter

 

[Scooby5959]

You found a boat that works for you and your circumstances which is great. i have had my boat for 24 years and have purchased her a second and third time with refits over the years. That is true love!

You are not the first prickly newbie on TF who spent too much time reading Beebe or Beuhler thinking you now know what is and is not a "Real Trawler." I give you credit for at least owning a boat.

The problem I have with some folks is not their ignorance - we all started somewhere. But their arrogance, the sense that somehow they are the first to discover fire. There is a line between enthusiastic and arrogance. When crossed, I have to wonder if the author is speaking from fear, usually being clueless on weather forecasting which means they have no idea how to safely move a boat long distances. They rely on luck so naturally they need a tank to defend against the unknown. Ignorance is one thing, but when it crosses into judgemental arrogance it becomes annoying. They always seem to have some sort of dismissive retort - in your case "Haters - No one likes strong opinions." There are many strong opinions here. Even arrogance pops up with regularity, though usually from people with pre-established creds (vs self-proclaimed creds). But from time to time, someone shows up who is either a troll or so self-important they believe their opinion is right even in the face of monumental evidence to the contrary. The result is a conversational bully and genuinely abrassive contributor.

At any rate, the OP came to TF looking for helpful opinions on boat selection. For some reason, I always forget to mention the Flemings that were mentioned up-thread. These are a great choice for many and would be a blast to bop around the Bahamas or Caribbean. As a suggestion, Tony Fleming has a YouTube channel that has some great footage of long trips, albeit in their 65-footers.

Peter

You don’t really know anything about me you think you do but you don’t .I don’t really like defending myself I don’t feel I need to you can call it Arrogant if you like that’s just the way I feel .I’ve been boating for a very long time and I owned a lot of boats ,you don’t agree with my opinions OK point out specifically where I’m wrong except in general terms that my appreciation on Bueller’s designs are a greenhorn mistake .if I could afford to have one built I would I personally love expedition trawlers . edit is also a fact that 90% of these coastal so called trawlers Sit tied to the dock most of the time I bought many of them cleaned them up and flipped them that’s how I’ve been able to Afford them. I know who buys them I know why they buy them I’ve owned many of them . it’s too bad that more of them aren’t being saved too much plywood coring and old outdated engines that aren’t worth rebuilding people aren’t willing to spend $40-$100,000 to rebuild them properly and the new boats being built are even worse As far as I’m concerned they’re building a better boat but the engines there putting in them I don’t agree with at all ,but that’s what people seem to want it’ll change one day ,but I guess people are still willing to buy the fuel .Of course you don’t need to buy much fuel when you’re sitting at the dock .all these things are Absolute fact you call arrogance .The boat I currently own is 38 years old and has 1960 hours another dock Queen .In 2003 my boat had close to 1500 hrs on it according to the paperwork I found in the last 20 years Less than 500 hours were put on the boat .I know of a Meridian that was sold ,15 years old at the time if not older I don’t remember but at least 15 years old and had 52 hours on it .still the original fuel that was put in the boat when it was bought new it’s sat tied to the dock and never moved not even once .I doubt you can find many things that I stated being wrong ,what you call wrong is your opinion you don’t agree ,You think I’m being too harsh by pointing these things out .Kinda rubbing peoples noses in it ,I think a little bit a nose rubbing is in order in my opinion I don’t really care who Dislikes it ,If you’re not going to use your boat or don’t have time to use it then why buy it ,it needs to be pointed out people need to know you have to have time otherwise you’re wasting your money been good for me though

 

[Peter B]

Scooby, the people you rather too readily call 'haters' are actually not. (Maybe you're a bit of a Taylor Swift fan..?) They are just folk who react a bit testily to your rather abrasive posting style, and your rather dismissive responses to that of others. Repeating often that you "don't care what others think" is not a great way to win friends and influence people, as the saying goes.

Might I suggest again, that before your hit save on your post. As you use voice recognition, it is rather too easy to come out with stuff you might otherwise word a bit differently, so sitting back before you hit 'submit reply,' and reading it as if it was someone else posting it to you, might help avoid angst. You may feel moved to go in and do a bit of editing. Takes no time really.

Then you'd pick up on phrases that could be worded a less in folks face - also some editing of the punctuation could make them easier to read. With capitals at the beginning of sentences, and a few paragraphs (a couple of line gaps between main statements), so folk get what you really mean. Just a friendly warning - a stitch in time, and all that...

 

[Scooby5959]

Scooby, the people you rather too readily call 'haters' are actually not. (Maybe you're a bit of a Taylor Swift fan..?) They are just folk who react a bit testily to your rather abrasive posting style, and your rather dismissive responses to that of others. Repeating often that you "don't care what others think" is not a great way to win friends and influence people, as the saying goes.

Might I suggest again, that before your hit save on your post. As you use voice recognition, it is rather too easy to come out with stuff you might otherwise word a bit differently, so sitting back before you hit 'submit reply,' and reading it as if it was someone else posting it to you, might help avoid angst. You may feel moved to go in and do a bit of editing. Takes no time really.

Then you'd pick up on phrases that could be worded a less in folks face - also some editing of the punctuation could make them easier to read. With capitals at the beginning of sentences, and a few paragraphs (a couple of line gaps between main statements), so folk get what you really mean. Just a friendly warning - a stitch in time, and all that...

All very true my communication skills are horrendous .I’ve had kind of a rough life ,I had to teach myself to read and write .It’s the only excuse I have not not a good one.It drives me up the wall some of the advice on this Forum .A simple statement like you might be better off with a single engine for a variety of reasons out come by haters.Or you might consider a dry exhaust Especially when it comes time to re-power out come the haters.Another one people will go on and on about what kind of davit to buy when the boat hardly ever leaves the dock ,don’t point that out, they act as if you committed a crime .I’ll keep my responses short to the point while not trying to convince anybody of anything that’s pointless anyways

 

[Porgy]

The poor OP. This is the so called “Welcome Mat” where they come to say hi, introduce themselves and let people know where they are in their search and that they may have questions sometime.

They are subjected to the obligatory interrogation, then given recommendations that were not solicited and don’t match the OP’s criteria. And, then post after post of utter drivel that is as incomprehensible as it is pointless. To the OP, yes this is your “welcome.”

There are some knowledgeable people that sometimes provide useful information. Some answer the question posed, when there is an actual question posed. And then there’s always... well every forum has them, lots of them. The ratio of useful to not useful information in this thread is about what you’ll find in most other threads as well. Good luck with your project.

Twistedtree on this forum as built 60’ and 68’ Nordhavns with some degree of customization and the one person who springs to mind with similar experience to your goal. He has a blog and many posts here. I believe someone here also built a larger Krogen somewhat recently but, don’t recall if they shared details of their build.

 

[backinblue]

I have to agree with MV. I don't care what boat anyone wanys to own. We all have resaons and compromises. But your comments come off a lot like someone in a glass house throwing stones.

 

[hrk]

Thanks for welcome and some useful suggestions. I am new to forum style conversation so pardon my way of communicating. As we make progress in choosing our boat and building process begins, i am sure to be back with deveral questions.

 

[backinblue]

Personal choice, I wouldn't want an old boat with unsually low hours. I'd rather have a boat that is used often and maintained properly. I'm trying to understand Scooby's point about finding boats that are still full of original fuel. Maybe I missed the point but why would this be a plus?