Best Trawler for <$100k-$125k?

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nJAYneer

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
8
Location
United States
Vessel Name
The Search is On!
Vessel Make
Recommendations <45' & <$125k
Hello. I have been pouring over listings on Yachtworld for 18 months from my home office in Minneapolis. Have read a ton of posts here. Understanding the best first boat for me is quite challenging. My wife and I want to live on it for extended periods of time in FL and the Caribbean. Hoping for something in the 42'-48' range. Looking for advise from this knowledge base...some of the boats that have captured my attention:

88' Jefferson 45/48. More of a MY than a trawler. Running gear not protected. Love the huge sundeck. Not sure about quality.

87' Tollycraft 44. Love the cockpit, but would like a bit more space in master. Runny gear not protected.

mid 80s Defever 44. Similar to the Jefferson, but is a true trawler with keel, protected running gear, Lehman. No aft cockpit...top end of budget.

mid 80s Defever 44+5. This seems to combine the best of above three. But, would need to find more money.

mid-80s Chris-Craft / Californian / Hi-Star 48. These are like larger Tollycrafts. Not sure of the quality of build.

Marine Traders: Most listings seem to be not well maintained.

1. Strong seaworthy hull (solid glass?) capable of safe coastal cruising and extended trips throughout the Caribbean. Cruising speeds of ~8knts is ok. Also looking for comfort both at sea and at anchor.

2. Economical diesel engine/engines where a reasonably smart and handy person can perform most (or all) maintenance to keep them running great. I hear Lehman's fit the bill. Any other suggestions?

3. Good livable layout with plenty of outdoor space. Lower helm is desired. Love the sundecks but many traditional trawlers (GB) don't really have a great sundeck version. Seems like the MY tend to have those.

4. I know this is not the same, but I have fixed and flipped many houses. As a result I am not afraid to learn and do cosmetic interior work to try and get the right boat to fit in my budget. Not really sure about cosmetic exterior work.

5. Will pay more for a boat that will hold its value over a five year period, assuming properly maintained during that period.

6. Should I stay away from engines that have been rebuilt?

Any tips on a trawler models would be super helpful.

Thank you. Jay.
 
Welcome aboard. A lot to answer. I would advise to not be as concerned about brand of boat but rather look for condition. First you need to decide what you want in a boat as to layout. When we are boat shopping we make a list of must haves. Then find out which boats have those must haves. Then buy the best condition boat that fits those must haves and is in your price range. Powerboat Guide has layouts and specs for hundreds of boats. Our list of must haves for our last boat (#23) besides obviously diesel power was no lower helm, no fixed furniture, walk around master berth, no vertical ladders. I love working on my boats so we bought a boat that has quite a bit of work necessary. Good luck with your search.
 
Try to buy the newest North American built yacht that you can, or any that have been truly refit with photos and receipts as proof.
In a few months you’re going to have a huge selection available at super low prices. I received an email from HMY yesterday of their new listings. WOW, the low prices on these quality new listings!!!
And to save yourself time and travel expenses (especially on for sale by owner boats) ask here if anybody has personally inspected the boat. To say that there’s pigs being advertised as silk purses is an understatement.
Also most surveyors will go do a quick walk through inspection for anywhere from free (if close by) to a couple hundred bucks. Surveyors can also tell you the known latent defects of most all vessels. They should also have access to Soldboats.com to show you comps. Boats have been trading hands at prices far lower than most buyers suspect Cheaper than a plane ticket.
 
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Comodave said:
Welcome aboard. A lot to answer. I would advise to not be as concerned about brand of boat but rather look for condition. First you need to decide what you want in a boat as to layout. When we are boat shopping we make a list of must haves. Then find out which boats have those must haves. Then buy the best condition boat that fits those must haves and is in your price range. Powerboat Guide has layouts and specs for hundreds of boats. Our list of must haves for our last boat (#23) besides obviously diesel power was no lower helm, no fixed furniture, walk around master berth, no vertical ladders. I love working on my boats so we bought a boat that has quite a bit of work necessary. Good luck with your search.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply. So, I have a list with obvious things, like efficient, sundeck, etc. However, what is harder for me are the less obvious things that SHOULD be on the list...like what are the things that make is a safe vessel in the first place? I want those. :) Like is solid fiberglass hull below the waterline important...or is solid vs cored more subjective? And, I am sure there are more things that I have not yet even thought of.
 
Captain Max said:
Try to buy the newest North American built yacht that you can, or any that have been truly refit with photos and receipts as proof.
In a few months you’re going to have a huge selection available at super low prices. I received an email from HMY yesterday of their new listings. WOW, the low prices on these quality new listings!!!
And to save yourself time and travel expenses (especially on for sale by owner boats) ask here if anybody has personally inspected the boat. To say that there’s pigs being advertised as silk purses is an understatement.
Also most surveyors will go do a quick walk through inspection for anywhere from free (if close by) to a couple hundred bucks. Surveyors can also tell you the known latent defects of most all vessels. They should also have access to Soldboats.com to show you comps. Boats have been trading hands at prices far lower than most buyers suspect Cheaper than a plane ticket.
Click to expand...
Any good NA yacht brands that have great reputations that might in my price range? I like the saberline trawlers, but they are well outside my price range. :(
 
nJAYneer said:
Thank you for this link. Lots of great info there.
Click to expand...

The last Saberliner reported on Soldboats.com was a 36’ Fast Trawler in March 2001, and it sold for $200k after being on the market for over 400 days. The market didn’t collapse til after September 11th 2001, so I see nothing that say’s “quality “. I would think that would be now a $75k boat in just natural depreciation.
I haven’t seen a Sabre that didn’t need a new paint job, or just had one. Paint is VERY expensive these days.
NICE 53’ Hatteras’s have been selling under $100k for 70’s models and NICE 80’s models for under $150k, including 48’ LRCs. 42 LRCs are selling between $45k-$134k in past 12 months. You can buy super nice refit Hatt convertibles for cheap.
If you want a tank with a name that has panache, you can’t beat a Hatteras. Just make sure it’s been repainted, and the engines have receipts for rebulds.
Virginia Yacht Brokers seems to always have a nice selection of cruising yachts available, and are straight shooters.
Cash has always been king.
 
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Some off the top thoughts:

All financial constraints are going to a full reset due to CV19 aftermath and recession. First and foremost get your vessel financing in order so when you find the right boat you can move fast.

The boats that meet your paper criteria and are in the $225 to 275 range should be your targets. Forget about the $125 range for now. Find one in the flesh that is in good shape and offer them your current target price. If no, move to the next one in the $225 to 275 range..

The market is going south real quick and will likely remain a strong buyers market for 12+ months. This will be worse than 2008 with so many unemployed and banks wanting bail out equity of any sort. The real estate market is the same, a new ball game.

Good luck, this may well turn into an unheard of seller's stampede and buyer's market real quick.
 
To fit in your price range and still hitting most of your criteria you might consider a Bayliner 4588 motor yacht. Protected props in tunnels, good economy @ 8 knots with bullet proof Hino diesels and the ability to cruise mid teens. Hino EH700 series engines are industrial design engines with dry sleeves, centrifugal oil filtration in addition to the large filters, and fresh water cooled oil for proper temperature control. Decent build quality vessels with name brand components. Just less teak than a traditional trawler. Great live aboard vessel and works well for coastal cruising or Bahama's. While some are getting long in the tooth there are some that are well maintained and upgraded.

James
 
nJAYneer, I sent you a Private Message
 
We're very happy with our 440 Ocean Alexander...very similar to the Tollycraft 44. In fact we're fans of the entire OA line. I don't get the "American built" recommendation.
 
You can search online and plan as much as you want, but until you get boots on the ground and physically inspect at least a dozen boats of different sizes and styles you will not have a good idea of what you will end up with.

We spent at least a year traveling up and down the East Coast from Virginia to West Palm Beach Florida, looking at a dozen and half boats, putting offers on two and finally buying the third.

We ended up buying a much smaller boat than we had planned to purchase and it was also much older. We purchased a boat that was solid, had pretty good records and decided to use the savings on purchase price to make the boat ours.

Hopefully you will not run into the same sellers and brokers that we did. Private sellers and brokers with pictures of boats that were at least 5 years old that in no way represented the condition of the boats current status. We just chalked it up and went to the next one.

Good luck.
 
For us, the first part of the search process was looking online, while figuring out what we needed our boat to be able to do, and what we needed to have to be comfortable there.
Preliminary decisions were: Loop capable, well built, 6'6" headroom, decent size shower, walk around queen bed, decent headroom in the engine compartment, and decent width side decks / working areas.
As we learned more here and elsewhere, we decided that we wanted a displacement or semi- d trawler (for the more vertical spaces) with either twin diesels, or a single with bow thrusters, for ease of docking.
We are two people, so we looked at boats which had better sized spaces for two, rather than ones trying to accomodate too many people to comfortably have aboard.
We wanted a good kitchen, as we both cook, and room for two comfortable recliners, as we often spend evenings reading.
Over time, we found that the space we wanted would likely be found in a boat 40 to 45 feet long, and 4.5 ft or less deep.
Pricewise, we looked at older boats, in the $75,000 to $100,000 range, so that we could have an allowance of $25 - $40,000 for repairs, initial maintenence, personalization, and upgrades.
We "narrowed" our search universe to about a dozen makes and models, then searched online for as many boats in that grouping as we could find, laid them out by location, and called a road trip to go look at them, to see how the reality matched the ideas we had.
We did not intend to buy on that trip, but 3/4 of the way through, Priscilla found a Craigslust ad for a boat that we thought was all that and a bag of chips, and we bought it.
Two years later, I still do not th hink that we could have done better, either in boat selection, or in price.
Good luck with your search.
John
 
Lots of good advice here, I'll give you mine regarding rebuilt engines.

A quality, professional rebuild of a six cylinder diesel without turbo can run as much as $20,000.

What does this mean?
It means the P.O. really cares/cared about his boat.
It means the engine will run as many as 20,000 more hours.
It will add nearly NOTHING to the asking price. (Every boat needs and came with an engine, a bad engine subtracts from the price, a good engine is "expected"and adds very little)
It means you will not have to rebuild the engine for a long time.

The only time I would proceed with caution would be an instance of a twin engine boat where one engine is rebuilt but not the other. I would want to know what happened to the one and is the other ready to fail?

Go for it!

pete
 
nJAYneer said:
Thank you for your reply. So, I have a list with obvious things, like efficient, sundeck, etc. However, what is harder for me are the less obvious things that SHOULD be on the list...like what are the things that make is a safe vessel in the first place? I want those. :) Like is solid fiberglass hull below the waterline important...or is solid vs cored more subjective? And, I am sure there are more things that I have not yet even thought of.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you are new to boating? If you are, Trawler Forum is a great place to gather knowledge and information. You will have to wade through the conflicting opinions.

When you are ready to start looking, you might consider hiring a Buyers Consultant. A competent Buyers Consultant can guide you through the boat buying experience as a disinterested third party. They can assist you in selecting a boat configuration that meets your needs, help choose boats to look at that will not be wasting your time, steer you away from issues, detect the BS, manage the broker and negotiate a fair deal. A boat buyer handles a handful of boat purchases in his lifetime and a successful broker is handling hundreds of transactions. Who do you think has the upper hand?

And a consultant will pay for him/herself by spotting costly problems, negotiating repairs and getting you a fair price.

And no, I'm not trying to sell you my services. I retired around 4 years ago.
 
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Greetings,
Mr. nJ. Ah, how silly of me. New to boating? As soon as things calm down, take some boating courses. USPS (US Power Squadron) offers a wide variety of classes on most things boating. You might also check out the local Coast Guard Auxiliary.


https://www.americasboatingclub.org/
 
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Any suggestions on good brokers or buyer's consultants in the Hilton Head Island, SC area?? thx. Mark.
 
Mark P said:
Any suggestions on good brokers or buyer's consultants in the Hilton Head Island, SC area?? thx. Mark.
Click to expand...

Can someone explain what exactly a buyer's consultant is? Topics like this come up on this forum from time to time and while there are always people who claim to do it, I wonder if it's a viable business. I say this because 20-years ago, I was a regular presenter for TrawlerFest, including "Boat Buying 101" so I met 100's (1000's??) of qualified buyers, many of whom had traveled a decent distance to spend 4-days in a hotel/marina attending seminars. While I had a great time and made a decent living delivering and training new owners, my sense is that had I tried to make a living as a Buyer's Broker, I would have starved.

Does such an animal - beyond a hobby - actually exist? Someone who a buyer pays for advice as opposed to a well-meaning broker, paid by via agreement with seller, who is willing to endure a lengthy sales cycle with a buyer (of whom there are many)?

Inquiring minds want to know....

Peter
 
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Greetings,
Mr. mv. The last time we purchased a vessel we "hired" a buyer's broker. A broker who was our consultant. He did a lot of legwork on our behalf in calling about and inspecting boats that may have suited our needs since were were looking from a remote location (1000 miles away). We DID fly him to Puerto Rico (on our dime) to look at a very, very promising candidate. That particular boat didn't make the cut. Somewhat misrepresented on YW BUT cheaper to fly one person back and forth from Fort Lauderdale than the fare for 2 people from 1000 miles away BUT what a delivery trip THAT would have been!



Our guy could also contact a selling broker on our behalf and leave voicemails and wait for callbacks (Saves potentially HOURS on the phone). Now y'all are going to say "Golly, even I can do that". Yes. Yes you can but the gentleman we "hired" has 30+ years experience and is pretty good at "reading" fellow brokers so we benefited from his gut feelings. Plus, access to Sold Boats.


I think the usual way buyer's brokers get paid is by splitting commissions with the seller's broker.


TF's own yachtbrokerguy, Mr. Tucker Fallon worked for us. Thanks Tucker.
 
mvweebles said:
Can someone explain what exactly a buyer's consultant is? Topics like this come up on this forum from time to time and while there are always people who claim to do it, I wonder if it's a viable business. I say this because 20-years ago, I was a regular presenter for TrawlerFest, including "Boat Buying 101" so I met 100's (1000's??) of qualified buyers, many of whom had traveled a decent distance to spend 4-days in a hotel/marina attending seminars. While I had a great time and made a decent living delivering and training new owners, my sense is that had I tried to make a living as a Buyer's Broker, I would have starved.

Does such an animal - beyond a hobby - actually exist? Someone who a buyer pays for advice as opposed to a well-meaning broker, paid by via agreement with seller, who is willing to endure a lengthy sales cycle with a buyer (of whom there are many)?

Inquiring minds want to know....

Peter
Click to expand...
Sure it exists, but only at price points above $300k, preferably above $800k- and only if the buyer pays all his travel expenses up front. Any broker worth his salt wouldn’t work for less, and would you want one who would?
Still cheaper to just pay a surveyor local to the vessel in consideration to go take a look at it for you. If it’s a nice boat worthy of a survey, most will subtract their first visit fee from the survey. I mean, you’re going to have to bring in a surveyor at some point anyway..
What happened to all the brokers here who used to give good free advice Mr. RT? Banned or out of business?
 
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Rufus said:
We're very happy with our 440 Ocean Alexander...very similar to the Tollycraft 44. In fact we're fans of the entire OA line. I don't get the "American built" recommendation.
Click to expand...

I guess you don’t live in the areas of the Great Lakes decimated by the loss of industry due to the influx of foreign products over the past 40 years? But other than the patriotism of buying American, there’s the fact that the boats in the price range the op is seeking will be found in better condition due to better construction than the Asian built boats of the same vintage. Number one is that American built boats didn’t leak from above when it rains. Ever heard the old joke told in Florida boatyards that “the reason there’s so many Chinese is that they make their condoms like their boats.”
 
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Captain Max said:
I guess you don’t live in the areas of the Great Lakes decimated by the loss of industry due to the influx of foreign products over the past 40 years? But other than the patriotism of buying American, there’s the fact that the boats in the price range the op is seeking will be found in better condition due to better construction than the Asian built boats of the same vintage. Number one is that American built boats didn’t leak from above when it rains. Ever heard the old joke told in Florida boatyards that “the reason there’s so many Chinese is that they make their condoms like their boats.”
Click to expand...

I'm very familiar with the Carver/Marquis and Cruisers operations. A relative worked at Cruisers. Great mass produced boats at a good price. Spacious, light weight, fast, efficient. They're clawing their way back with infusions of tax payer dollars. Another local manufacturer and world class icon that actually disappeared is Palmer Johnson. All of them suffered immensely from sky high labor costs (unions).

Our second generation Ocean Alexander does not leak (no teak deck veneer and modern window frames). Yes, the price's are a bit above the OP's quoted range...but not by much. The robust, sea worthy Ed Monk hull designs with spectacular teak interiors are worth every extra penny...especially for a live aboard. That said, the heavier construction and semi-planning hulls won't be as competitive in the mid-range fuel efficiency race.

If the OP wants a mass produced American built boat that maximizes bang for the buck, I'd recommend either Cruisers or Carver diesel motoryachts or sedans in a New York minute...way ahead of Bayliner or Mainship. If he wants to step up a notch in the price range, the 90's and up OA's are great boats.
 
Unb
mvweebles said:
Can someone explain what exactly a buyer's consultant is? Topics like this come up on this forum from time to time and while there are always people who claim to do it, I wonder if it's a viable business. I say this because 20-years ago, I was a regular presenter for TrawlerFest, including "Boat Buying 101" so I met 100's (1000's??) of qualified buyers, many of whom had traveled a decent distance to spend 4-days in a hotel/marina attending seminars. While I had a great time and made a decent living delivering and training new owners, my sense is that had I tried to make a living as a Buyer's Broker, I would have starved.

Does such an animal - beyond a hobby - actually exist? Someone who a buyer pays for advice as opposed to a well-meaning broker, paid by via agreement with seller, who is willing to endure a lengthy sales cycle with a buyer (of whom there are many)?

Inquiring minds want to know....

Peter
Click to expand...


I was a Buyers Consultant for around 15 years in the PNW. It was in addition to working as a boat handling instructor and check out skipper. Plus I had several other part time businesses at the same time, some boating related and some not.

Since I only worked September through May, 2 to 4 days a week, my total business for all activities was limited. The buyers consultant business was around 15 to 25 percent of the total. Or around 3 to 4 clients per year. In comparison, I had 10 to 14 instructing and insurance check outs per year. One of my non boating businesses was as a Mobile DJ performing 25 to 40 gigs/year. That was my absolute, favorite part time business - 40 plus part time years!

The clients were usually people that I had previously instructed on a boat either privately or when I contracted to a yacht time share company. They were moving up and recognized the value of a disinterested experienced party assisting in the move. Other clients were referrals from previous clients. Because of my part time status, I did not spend any money on advertising, other than a web site.

I helped the buyers with the selection of a boat, viewed boats with them, ruled out the problem boats, pointed out issues and negotiated the purchase with the selling broker. Then went over the survey with the buyer, oversee the necessary repairs, commissioning and usually spent time with them docking and handling. Not all consultants instruct.

I charged an hourly fee. A lower fee for assisting on the phone and higher for physical presence. Sometimes a flat fee was negotiated with an agreement to the number of hours.

A buyers broker works on commission. It is not beneficial for a buyers broker to negotiate for a lower price. A buyers consultant, on the other hand, working for an hourly rate will negotiate very hard to get a lower price. Not only to look good but to try to save the buyer enough money to mitigate the consulting fee.

I don't think I could have worked full time as a consultant. There are not enough clients willing to spend the money.

Steve D'Antonio works as a Buyers Consultant. He does other consulting too. Steve is younger and a lot more hardworking and resourceful than I was. He also has the advantage of having managed a boatyard and writing articles for boating magazines making him pretty well known throughout the country. And he has vast knowledgeable about the mechanical aspects of boats.

I inspected the mechanical aspects of boats being considered for purchase for the client but probably not as thorough as Steve. I found obvious mechanical issues to rule out potential boats but left the close examination to surveyors, which I helped select.

As a consultant, I also negotiated upgrades, service and repair for clients and oversaw the completion, usually saving the client money and time. Many clients lived out of state.
 
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RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. CM. "What happened to all the brokers here.." No idea. Too busy maybe? Retired?
Click to expand...

Talking making a living (with no pensions) from just commissioned sales: The brokers at IYC are slamming it, but you don’t see too many brokers older than 35 over at Marine Max do you? Bradford shot themselves in the foot when the new owners took over. How many times have we seen that happen in business? Tick, tick, tick.
“One retires when one has the epiphany that they’re making more money by just staying in bed- because they’re spending less.” That’s what dad said. But then they would have more time to spend on forums wouldn’t they? I’m only here because all our charters canceled.
Hey, maybe I’ll have my wife chime in as “Ms M” here since we now have so much time to burn. Wouldn’t that be obnoxious. Lol No wait, better yet: M&M!!
 
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Mr. Rufus,
Indeed the Carvers and Cruisers are viable options, but don’t most Carvers have Volvo diesels? They’re also known for rather weak gel coats. The 4450 Cruiser is indeed one cool yacht, I love the bathtub, and the huge window/hatch in the transom that allows one to literally dive into the water from bed, and one can crawl back through to go soak in the tub. Great layout. Frank Gordon is advertising a 2000 model in Miami for $109k. Speaking to him about ANY boat would benefit you. He’s been brokering since 1959 and has a memory like HAL.
Not to be argumentative but I noticed on your statistics that you had window leaking issues on your boat, that you were searching for solutions. Ocean Alexanders are indeed higher quality than most Asian built vessels, and would certainly recommend oneover a Grand Banks of the same vintage.
 
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....seals deteriorate...on all boats. I was on an early 90's Hatteras MY last summer and the windshield was leaking like a sieve. I found new seals at Ocean Alexander in Seattle and simply replaced them....without having to cut out antiquated wooden frames and start from scratch. No Leaks. That's another thing about OA...they're still in business and parts are available, unlike many other brands (American and otherwise). No leaks, pardner.
 
Rufus said:
....seals deteriorate...on all boats. I was on an early 90's Hatteras MY last summer and the windshield was leaking like a sieve. I found new seals at Ocean Alexander in Seattle and simply replaced them....without having to cut out antiquated wooden frames and start from scratch. No Leaks. That's another thing about OA...they're still in business and parts are available, unlike many other brands (American and otherwise). No leaks, pardner.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but does it really “RAIN” up north, and don’t y’all keep your boats in sheds or under cover for nine months a year? Taiwan boats hold up great in the less humid climes, but the REAL TEST is down South, where the sun cooks the exterior of the boats to over 125 degrees (or more, and you aren’t walking barefoot on any teak decks!) all morning (opening up sealants, gaskets nice and wide, even melting them) THEN six to 10 inches of ice cold water is dropped on it like fire hoses (complete with 70 mph winds) come the afternoon EVERY DAY for months... That’s the test.
Everything in those closed up boats become a petri dish of mold and rot. The rain water flows down wiring, and hoses to electrical panels, puddles on top of fuel tanks, and soaks into the stringers. Not going to see those issues on boats built in the South. Even the Italian yachts with glued in windows stay pretty dry inside. Those boats built with window frames always will eventually leak.
 
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