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Old 09-26-2017, 12:04 PM   #21
Seevee's Avatar
City: st pete
Vessel Model: 430 Mainship
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Regarding resale.... there's a thought to keep that in mind, but perhaps we should worry more about the right boat for the mission. Most can agree that we'll be lucky to get much of the dollars we put into the boat, and not uncommon to get less than 50%.

Work on being comfortable and enjoying the boat... the cost of depreciation is just part of the cost of ownership.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:58 PM   #22
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resale - don't discount it, as you will some day need to sell.

Buying a cheap boat is never a bargain.

Your talking about a boat that would be your primary residence.

Now if it was a project boat when your retired & have lots of time to fix it up & you already have a house to live in, then OK. -- but you said your busy with new career & not much money - poor combo for this type of boat.

But you need to also remember, This boat will be your sole place of residence to live in 24 / 7 - 3645, for how many years you live in it & your in the pacific north West where it rains 300 days a year.

Plus maybe you will be having a female on board with you & she will not be happy with living on a project boat & your repairs & fixing up drags out into years to complete in the pacific north west where it is wet & cold for a lot of the time of the year.

I have owned a lot of boats of all different sizes, shapes, brands & price points over many decades & agree it is not what you would call an "appreciating asset" nor a good investment like real-estate can be in the right location like in silicon valley by San Jose, CA. or Manhattan, NY. But you can do things to help you, rather than hurt you.

Of course it will depreciate some over time, But not exactly like a car. Condition, Design & Equipage & Build quality makes a big difference. A boat is a cross between a house & car - without the Location, location, Location advantages if in the right place or disadvantages if in the wrong place.
However, please note, the right design, if in good shape, properly cared for is always in demand and you will do way better.

If you buy a design that is in demand & it is a boat in good shape & say for example it is currently worth say $ 200 K & then take care if it, you will get a lot of that back when you sell.
Example, 10 years later maybe get $ 150 K, maybe more. I have even gotten the same original purchase price 100% back 10 years later for the right design that was properly cared for.

BUT, If you buy a "POS" fixer-upper or project boat for $ 50 K & put another $ 50 K or $ 100 K in it - you will probably not even get your original $ 50 k back.

Ask me how I know ? -- I have done it both ways.

So be advised. as you don't know, what you don't know !

You say you have limited time. Your working on your flying career. You want time to be with your lady. Practically speaking, you plan is flawed.

A fool & his money are soon parted. A old $ 50 k boat, 40 to 50 feet long ( which, BTW, is the right size) , for you to live aboard & combined with you having limited time & very limited money is not a good idea for your only single place of residence.

What ever can go wrong, will go wrong.

Good luck.

Alfa Mike
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:28 AM   #23
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Vessel Model: 2002 Kristen 52' Flybridge Trawler
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RE: the washer and dryer. I think you said you want a "combo", but if by that you mean one machine that's both the washer and the dryer - I advise you to NOT do that. Our boat has the Splendide unit, and it's an OK washing machine at best, and a horrible dryer. Granted, it's 16 years old, so maybe newer ones are better, but if we had the space, we'd replace it with a small washer, and a small dryer.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:38 AM   #24
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$ 48 K boat

Not Mine - not related to me in any way.

Just saw this on the forum

1989 Albin 50 Trawler. $ 48 K - Boat

Wife has suddenly taken ill and we will no longer be able to use the boat. Priced for immediate sale. $48,000 No where can I find a 50ft that floats and runs priced less. Currently located near St Petersburg.

THE GOOD: Built as a custom factory order by Albin, I believe only two were ever made of this model and no expense was spared in building. Unlike even the most expensive boats of this era, it has the high end aluminum framed windows (with self storing screens), moulded non-slip glass decks and a bright modern engine room that is fully sound proofed with foil backed lead foam sheeting, aluminum diamond plate flooring and aluminum sheeting on the walls. The other modern feature is the elimination of virtually all exterior teak which makes leaky decks a thing of the past and helps keep maintenance to a minimum. The extra wide side decks / gunwales which are sunken low in the hull midships make boarding a breeze and allows for safe movement around the boat in the worst conditions. The fully enclosed aft deck with wing doors is massive and contains a full size couch, love seat, chair coffee table, bar fridge and built in bar with hot/cold water. .

The open concept interior was designed to optimize living space for a cruising or live aboard couple and has teak panelling and teak & holly flooring throughout. The elimination of the traditional guest stateroom usually found in this size of boat freed up the space needed to add a large stand alone shower, massive salon and a full width galley with over 15ft of counter and cupboard space along with a breakfast bar, fridge, stove and over size sink. Also in the galley is our most valuable feature on the boat, a large cold plate Gunnert floor freezer driven by the inverter. The forward guest room (V-berth) has a large separate shower room and a two piece bath.

The salon has a full size pull out couch, two tub chairs, coffee table, writing desk and stools. There is storage galore and also a built in entertainment center which includes stereo, DVD, TV. The aft cabin has a queen walk around bed, lighted vanity desk, a hideaway stacked washer/dryer and loads of storage space everywhere. The second head is also found here and is a roomy three piece with a full size tub and electronic water saver toilet.

The lower steering station rivals that of a high end yacht rather than a trawler and has full instrumentation along with radar/ marpa multiple target tracking, dual gyro compasses, autopilot, GPS, two depth sounders, VHF, intercom, chart plotter / side scan sonar and engine Sync. An interconnected serial port also allows for the use of your favourite software for laptop plotting/navigation on both bridges and is integrated to the autopilot.

The bridge steering station also has all of the above including switching for search, docking & nav lights etc. as well as a Raymarine plotter and AIS VHF DSC transceiver and a remote control for the autopilot. The bridge itself is massive and runs over half the length of the boat with seating down both sides & storage underneath.

SPECS: Albin 50, 1989. Fiberglass construction. Beam 16ft, Bridge clearance 21ft (arch up). Dry weight 38000 lbs, low hour Twin Cat 3208 diesel engines, 2300 hours. fuel tanks 800 gal, water 200gal. 20KW Northern lights genny. 50 amp shore power.

ELECTRONICS: Raymarine Radar 10in display, 72 mile, 10KW 4ft open array with multiple marpa target tracking. B&G multi display - true heading, depth, speed.. Robertson auto pilot with remote. Standard Horizon AIS VHF integrated to Ray plotter. Garmin GPS display, upper/lower ICOM VHFs. Raymarine 410 multiple station hailer and intercom. Hummingbird 3D high res SIDE SCAN sonar with plotter. Maxima broadband marine receiver. Three 12 channel GPS antennas, Raymarine E80 plotter interfaced to AIS unit. Garmin 128 depth/fish finder. Two Simrad gyro compass's. Serial ports at both helms interfaced with autopilot.

FEATURES: Westinghouse Washer Dryer. Northernlights NL 854 genny. Heart inverter, glendinng engine synchronizer, quicksilver isolator. Maxwell windlass with dual controls. all GFI.120V outlets. Two 30 amp rate controlled battery chargers. Three 8D (new) and two 4D batteries. Halon system. Fresh water washdown. Bilge Flood alarm. Hull recessed docking headlamps. ITT 10" remote control spotlight. Wireless GSM cellular security system, wireless motion activated GSM cellular security camera. 1000lb aft deck crane. Reverso auto oil changer system. Bios 4 piece wireless weather station.

INCLUDES: New scuba dive hooka compressor with 60 ft hoses & reg. 60lb Bruce, 55 Lb Delta and 60lb Fortress anchors. All, lines, fenders bouys, life preservers, spare hardware, hoses, fittings, pumps, paints, cleaners, fibreglass repair materials, filters, many tools, greases, oil, dishes, appliances, etc.

RECENT UPGRADES 2014 to 2017. Replaced radar system. Added sidescan sonar, GPS and AIS VHF. New gyro compass. New hot water heater. Upgraded to 50 amp shore power. New bridge helm seat, New bridge speakers. Replaced all throttle & shift cables up & down,. Overhaul steering -new steering cylinder, new seals both helms, flush & fill. Overhauled rudders. New galley and bar fridges. New BBQ. Added camera and alarm system. New aft deck furniture, new salon upholstery. Air cond, fresh water, washdown & bilge pumps replaced. New upper bridge hatch. New Generator manifold, New life bouys & dock lines. Numerous hoses replaced. Refinished aft deck flooring. New macerators forward and aft heads & holding tank. New engine shields. Blasted & Powder coated all exterior engine vents. Repaired and/or installed new interior & exterior lighting throughout. Added numerous spares, hardware and fittings to inventory. Replaced all three 8D house batteries. New windshield cover, wipers overhauled. Much new wiring throughout. Replaced complete plexiglass bridge spray shield.

THE BAD: Port shaft is pitted & needs replacing, (starboard already replaced) Blisters in the bottom gel coat and in desperate need of bottom paint. (paint is on board) Numerous scratches. nicks and spider cracks topside. The topsides needs painting, side door needs repairs, Fold down radar arch needs work on hinges. Needs one air cond unit replaced, salon air unit requires repairs. Several seacocks are stiff & should be replaced. Engines need painting. Much unused leftover wiring needs to be pulled out. Alternatively, do as I did, forget the above, pour a drink put your feet up & enjoy your dirt cheap floating waterfront condo.

Will try to find more photos.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:18 PM   #25
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City: Palm Coast, FL
Vessel Name: Coquina
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I also labored over the flying vs boating decision. It actually started when I bought real estate at a fly-in community with 3500' turf strip and PCL. I've got time in numerous singles, including a Mooney and one twin, a C310. More history, I'm an engineer, and still a few years away from retirement, which will include a trawler. I do have tons of island cruising time in the Bahamas, most all of it live aboard.

You may find that large scale boating will easily displace flying. I was able to keep both up for a few decades, but boating is winning now the race. It is wildly and viciously different.

A couple of points to make, again with my limited experience in a very different part of the world.

I would tend to reduce the importance of single vs twin. It's just not that important. You can tell the choice is not cleancut, since the arguments for both are non-ending.
Why no teak on deck? You are in the eternal dark land. Sun-not! South of Lat 30 deg, that story changes.
Spend more than 100k. You will anyway, and skip some living in greasy dust and on the hard. I see many folks living in a boatyard. Not fun. They are crappy places to live or work. And, I've done all my bottom jobs including gel coat removal and barrier coats, all solo.

Are you doing your own Mooney work? Are you very handy with large wrenches, wire crimpers, caulking guns, routers, voltmeters and chain hoists? This will be a huge transition, one that I recommend fully.
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:05 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Seevee View Post
The Twin Single debate will never end, and it's easy to argue either side. However, that argument is MUCH more discussed in aircraft that in boats.

I've had both and can justify both. I've had times where a second engine saved my bacon and times when the single was just fine.

The advantage of the twin:
More maneuverability
Faster (but minimal)
Get home if one quits
Have back up generator
Don't need to rely as much on a thruster

The advantage of the single:
Less chance of one failing
Less maintenance
Better efficiency (but minimal)
More engine room space

But a few things:
The cost of operation doesn't double with a twin
The efficiency is minor difference, even on huge trips
The speed advantage is worth something, but comparing like ships, probably not more than a 25% gain.

My preference today: Twin. I have a single and am happy, but to do over I'd get the twin, and betting that the total additional cost over a loop trip wouldn't be 5%.

But all debatable.
Twins not much less efficient if everyone travels one knot less than hull speed. If traveling faster, you're not being efficient fuel-wise.
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:15 PM   #27
City: Seattle, WA
Vessel Model: Canoe Cove
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Originally Posted by alfamike View Post

A fool & his money are soon parted.
Apparently you weren't negative enough because I just made a formal offer on a very nice Canoe Cove. We'll see what happens...
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:49 PM   #28
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City: Camarillo
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Don't get me wrong, I love boating, just it is not for the faint of heart & some have more issues than others.

Boat ownership Can be frustrating some times

So a hearty Congratulations.

I give up, you can't say you weren't warned !

Happiest two days of a boaters life.

1. - the day he purchases his new to him boat.

2. - the day he sells, his now old boat.

I do wish you smooth sailing on your new purchase & hope there are no major issues.

I do love boating & love being out in the sea.

But with boats - if something can go wrong - then it will.

Good Luck.

Alfa Mike
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:18 PM   #29
City: Seattle, WA
Vessel Model: Canoe Cove
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Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
RE: the washer and dryer. I think you said you want a "combo", but if by that you mean one machine that's both the washer and the dryer - I advise you to NOT do that. Our boat has the Splendide unit, and it's an OK washing machine at best, and a horrible dryer. Granted, it's 16 years old, so maybe newer ones are better, but if we had the space, we'd replace it with a small washer, and a small dryer.
I think I saw an entire thread (either here or on the Cruising Forum) on Splendide units. The general consensus seemed to be that when vented properly (outside the vessel) they are fine, but without outside venting, dry poorly.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:23 PM   #30
City: Seattle, WA
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Originally Posted by alfamike View Post

Don't get me wrong, I love boating, just it is not for the faint of heart & some have more issues than others.

No worries.

It was not at all the style of boat I'd been looking for, but the build quality and care by the current 20-yr owner got my attention and forced me to think outside the box in terms of needs/requirements.

For now it's just an offer (13% less than asking price) /deposit. If accepted, I'll provide more details.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:52 PM   #31
City: Seattle, WA
Vessel Model: Canoe Cove
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Completed Haulout, Survey, and Sea Trial 2 weeks ago on a Canoe Cove Sedan. I'm working through the broker to get the seller to address a number of issues with the boat.

Is it normal practice to provide the seller with a full copy of the Survey or is it like buying a house where you only provide a list of the specific deficiencies you want corrected?
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:09 PM   #32
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I only provided the deficiencies. Donít give away all the positives, chances are the seller knows them anyway. Rest assured you will eventually find more deficiencies than the surveyor did.
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