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Old 07-06-2020, 04:36 PM   #61
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Talking Three year follow-up!

Re-reading my original post (and everyone's friggin funny replies) and thought an update is in order to the original from THREE YEARS AGO- OMG this is one long @$$ process!

Continue to lurk around yachtworld and TF. Continue to roam docks (together) and point out pros/cons. Spent several nights on a KK42 recently and got underway. To my surprise, she said "I think I could do this" w/ a twinkle in her eye. Topside cocktails in a nice breeze overlooking the water w/ a setting sun also helped.

Early on, we kept thinking Kadey Krogens and we both walked off of this one after several days and felt like we could do the boating lifestyle, just not in a Kadey. Both in great shape but climbing/worming into a very high V berth in a room w/ not a lot of natural light was not for us. Nor was a head that when sitting, knocked doors open (although I'm not Larry Craig). But man did I like the feel of being underway in a heavy displacement boat.

So now we're thinking aft stateroom. And something w/ a larger outdoor deck. Believe it or not, she's a runner and is wondering how to put a small treadmill on a boat so SHE can make it work. Seriously. Some nice DeFevers have some topside areas as big as our living room- doable? Other thoughts?

Everyone said, slowly ease in, three years before truly spending time on one is definitely easing in. We continue to negotiate and in the next phase consider a small land based condo near the water and a trawler that is a second home that allows us to travel.

Grateful for everyone's insights. You said spend some time on one- check. Go slow- double check. Still looking/interested- good sign. In the meantime, will get on my sail boat and get my fix until we can get to the next phase...
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Old 07-06-2020, 05:25 PM   #62
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I have a KK and love it, but knowing what doesn't work for you is as important or more important than knowing what does. Good for you. One thing to also think about is if you might be more comfortable in a stateroom with a berth which goes beam to beam. Just a thought.
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:44 AM   #63
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Re-reading my original post (and everyone's friggin funny replies) and thought an update is in order to the original from THREE YEARS AGO- OMG this is one long @$$ process!

Continue to lurk around yachtworld and TF. Continue to roam docks (together) and point out pros/cons. Spent several nights on a KK42 recently and got underway. To my surprise, she said "I think I could do this" w/ a twinkle in her eye. Topside cocktails in a nice breeze overlooking the water w/ a setting sun also helped.

Early on, we kept thinking Kadey Krogens and we both walked off of this one after several days and felt like we could do the boating lifestyle, just not in a Kadey. Both in great shape but climbing/worming into a very high V berth in a room w/ not a lot of natural light was not for us. Nor was a head that when sitting, knocked doors open (although I'm not Larry Craig). But man did I like the feel of being underway in a heavy displacement boat.

So now we're thinking aft stateroom. And something w/ a larger outdoor deck. Believe it or not, she's a runner and is wondering how to put a small treadmill on a boat so SHE can make it work. Seriously. Some nice DeFevers have some topside areas as big as our living room- doable? Other thoughts?

Everyone said, slowly ease in, three years before truly spending time on one is definitely easing in. We continue to negotiate and in the next phase consider a small land based condo near the water and a trawler that is a second home that allows us to travel.

Grateful for everyone's insights. You said spend some time on one- check. Go slow- double check. Still looking/interested- good sign. In the meantime, will get on my sail boat and get my fix until we can get to the next phase...
Wifey B: Since this unknown entity isn't here to speak for herself, then I'm going to ask why the %#@$^&% are you still trying to push this on her three years later when you knew from the beginning she isn't in favor?

And another thing. What the heck do you mean by "The Admiral?" What are you implying when saying that. Are you saying do nothing but orders or just a figurehead who doesn't really matter? You're certainly not using a term to denote an equal partner in the whole thing. Please define "The Admiral" for me so I'll know what it is meant to convey in your mind. As Bruce B said, in Dorsey's mind it was fighting words, in my mind, in Pilou's. Others find it fine, but I'd just like to hear what it means to you. Now, we're all serious boaters so maybe different to us than those who don't boat, but still what does it mean.

"I think I could do this." Translation, "I sure as heck don't want to but since you continue to harass me over it year after year after year after year, I'll give you one small iota of hope but if you force this, you will regret it more than you know."

My advice. Go buy your boat. She'll join you for the first trip, then that will be it. One rough day at sea or being tossed all night at anchor, one storm, one disastrous docking, it doesn't take much to run off someone who didn't want to boat to start with. There are a lot of spouses who have been dragged into boating but had one bad experience and been 100% out of it. See, those of us who truly want to boat are difficult to discourage. Those in it reluctantly, don't take much to be run away from it.
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:24 AM   #64
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Wifey B: Since this unknown entity isn't here to speak for herself, then I'm going to ask why the %#@$^&% are you still trying to push this on her three years later when you knew from the beginning she isn't in favor?

And another thing. What the heck do you mean by "The Admiral?" What are you implying when saying that. Are you saying do nothing but orders or just a figurehead who doesn't really matter? You're certainly not using a term to denote an equal partner in the whole thing. Please define "The Admiral" for me so I'll know what it is meant to convey in your mind. As Bruce B said, in Dorsey's mind it was fighting words, in my mind, in Pilou's. Others find it fine, but I'd just like to hear what it means to you. Now, we're all serious boaters so maybe different to us than those who don't boat, but still what does it mean.

"I think I could do this." Translation, "I sure as heck don't want to but since you continue to harass me over it year after year after year after year, I'll give you one small iota of hope but if you force this, you will regret it more than you know."

My advice. Go buy your boat. She'll join you for the first trip, then that will be it. One rough day at sea or being tossed all night at anchor, one storm, one disastrous docking, it doesn't take much to run off someone who didn't want to boat to start with. There are a lot of spouses who have been dragged into boating but had one bad experience and been 100% out of it. See, those of us who truly want to boat are difficult to discourage. Those in it reluctantly, don't take much to be run away from it.
Except you the “admrial” rant I 100% agree with your post.

My wife is “the admiral” and the term is Not derogatory, it is a term of respect to signify that in many things She has the final word. Many guys would be a bit foolhardy if it were not for the steadying hand of “the admrial”
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:11 AM   #65
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Especially for a newbie..the label Admiral is all too common on internet threads to get beat up over.

I would love to know what "serious boater" really means...
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:24 AM   #66
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The Defever 44 (and the cockpit equipped 44+5) checks a lot of those boxes; great outdoor living space and aft cabin. The Gulfstar 44MY likewise, I was very impressed by the one we spent a week on helping friends bring their new purchase down to NC from Solomons. Nice ER's in both those boats and overall good ergonomics.

Not sure ay all about a treadmill though. Even on our much bigger Hatteras 56MY that would eat up way too much space for my liking. And I don't know how friendly a salt water environment would be on one of those things. Maybe a compact exercise bike instead? Do you plan on being away from shore for extended periods of time? Why not take the dinghy to shore and go hiking or biking. Maybe even row over there with the right dink.

That bit about ergonomics is critical. A boat may have all the floating condo features you want, but how about ease of the two of you operating, docking/undocking, mooring, anchoring and maintaining it? These are the things that do a lot of people in on the boating life.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:41 AM   #67
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Especially for a newbie..the label Admiral is all too common on internet threads to get beat up over.

I would love to know what "serious boater" really means...
Wifey B: Serious boater means we're equal partners in boating with our husbands, we're well trained, we're actively involved. It means we love boating and are extremely interested in it.

Back to Admiral for a moment, as Ksanders says it means she has the final word. I ask, however, the OP what it means to him. Does it mean final word but little involvement in terms of being hands on? Does it imply that she is able to overrule his wishes so they aren't equal but she holds some military like rank over him?

I'm not familiar with all the Navy protocols, but it's my understanding that a Captain commands the boat and an Admiral commands the fleet? Am I correct? If that's the case and there's only one boat, is Admiral then a superfluous position?

I know those of you who use the term mean in lovingly and in honor, but I just don't understand why that term has become so common and what it really means in this regard. Ksanders says, "final word". Is that the universal meaning?

In the OP's case, if it means the final word, then seems he's not accepted that along the way.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:58 AM   #68
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Wifey B: Serious boater means we're equal partners in boating with our husbands, we're well trained, we're actively involved. It means we love boating and are extremely interested in it. ......I'm not familiar with all the Navy protocols, but it's my understanding that a Captain commands the boat and an Admiral commands the fleet? Am I correct? If that's the case and there's only one boat, is Admiral then a superfluous position? I know those of you who use the term mean in lovingly and in honor, but I just don't understand why that term has become so common and what it really means in this regard
I agree with your definition of "serious boaters" but to me, using the term "admiral" with respect to your wife is "over the top." In my stint aboard the carrier Enterprise, the admiral commanded the fleet and the captain the boat. I feel that the use of the word "admiral" to describe one's wife is extremely over used. We use "first mate" and the captain has the last word. It's exactly like PIC (pilot in command) when flying.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:59 AM   #69
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Watch the movie "Sink the Bismark"....its on youtube. Simplicity of reality.

Like the Captain and Admiral aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt issue.

No, the admiral aboard is not superfluous....and it fits private boats almost to a "T" also.

You might compare it like a captain and cruise director on a cruise ship.
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:14 PM   #70
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Wifey B: Serious boater means we're equal partners in boating with our husbands, we're well trained, we're actively involved. It means we love boating and are extremely interested in it.

I'm not familiar with all the Navy protocols, but it's my understanding that a Captain commands the boat and an Admiral commands the fleet? Am I correct? If that's the case and there's only one boat, is Admiral then a superfluous position?
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You might compare it like a captain and cruise director on a cruise ship.

Geez, Wifey B... many good points, but maybe you can take a deep breath for a minute...

Proudsailor can get where he and his own wifey want to get without having his knuckles slapped for (what many of us think are) minor details...

Yes, Captain commands the boat, Admiral commands the fleet. (As well as the composition of the fleet, in many cases.) No, not at all superfluous in family recreational boating. PSN's description (captain and cruise director) is right on for many when it comes to onboard activities (not particularly related to safe operations of the boat underway) and what to do when the boat gets "there."

But in our case, my Admiral also mostly decides our "fleet movements" first, as Admirals are wont to do. I suggest, of course, as does she... and we have an equal partnership... I mostly defer to her judgement when it comes to really deciding where we go when.

Perhaps it's a more comfortable relationship for us than you might imagine from the terminology than it would be for you... but perhaps we're also influenced by several decades of working with actual Admirals and Captains... and Generals and Colonels and so forth.

Anyway, it comes down to job descriptions, and for us "Admiral" is a legit and honorable role.

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Old 07-07-2020, 01:33 PM   #71
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I'm with psneeld and ranger on this one. I've been boating since I was too young to remember. She hasn't been. So she gets a lot of say in the what / where / how long kind of stuff, as something that seems reasonable and fun to me may seem crazy, boring or just be too much in her mind.

When it comes to actual boat operation, she becomes the first mate. She's still getting used to spending some time at the helm, but fortunately, she doesn't mind slightly rough seas when I'm at the helm. She described it once as "better than driving in the snow" while blowing through a 2 foot chop on the way home one evening.
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:40 PM   #72
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Geez, Wifey B... many good points, but maybe you can take a deep breath for a minute...

Proudsailor can get where he and his own wifey want to get without having his knuckles slapped for (what many of us think are) minor details...

Yes, Captain commands the boat, Admiral commands the fleet. (As well as the composition of the fleet, in many cases.) No, not at all superfluous in family recreational boating. PSN's description (captain and cruise director) is right on for many when it comes to onboard activities (not particularly related to safe operations of the boat underway) and what to do when the boat gets "there."

But in our case, my Admiral also mostly decides our "fleet movements" first, as Admirals are wont to do. I suggest, of course, as does she... and we have an equal partnership... I mostly defer to her judgement when it comes to really deciding where we go when.

Perhaps it's a more comfortable relationship for us than you might imagine from the terminology than it would be for you... but perhaps we're also influenced by several decades of working with actual Admirals and Captains... and Generals and Colonels and so forth.

Anyway, it comes down to job descriptions, and for us "Admiral" is a legit and honorable role.

-Chris
Wifey B: I'm calm, but just find the proliferation of the term to be strange. You say you have an equal partnership. Well, Admiral and Captain aren't terms of equals. Cruise director is an interesting label. I don't mean to be picking on the OP as much as just asking all of you who use the term. I believe a lot of you use the term Admiral but describing different situations. I don't fault any of you using the term but it lacks a consistent definition I believe. I wish there was a better term for your partner in boating.

The OP hasn't described their relationship. My slapping of the OP isn't over the labels but him ignoring her choices.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:09 PM   #73
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Somebody woke up cranky today. The man has a plan and is including the distaff side of the family in a way she seems to enjoy.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:10 PM   #74
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If we are all being brutally honest, my wife is slowly working her way out of LTJG for the last few years.

She'll make full Lieutenant if she remembers how a telescoping camlock boathook works next time out.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:30 PM   #75
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I know all have heard the term " The Admiral" out of me many times, to be honest my wife, partner, spouse calls herself "The Admiral". It never comes out of my mouth or is written out of any disrespect or malice. In all our boating life we have split responsibilities ( almost like the colors on the deck of a carrier) of the voyage. I take care or the mechanical and running of the boat, she plans the voyage, stops,provisioning, guests, kids, activities, social calendar etc. Her focus is the big picture, mine is the boat. Its not a sexist statement, there are boats out there that these roles are reversed. Look up " Mermaid Monster' a Nordhavn that is out cruising where the roles are reversed.

I truly believe that there can only be one person that has ultimate responsibility on the operation of a boat, they don't do well when ran by a committee... it take too long to make decisions when time counts. My wife has only 5-7000 less offshore miles than I have, and all of hers is under sail. She is a very accomplished and tough sailor, she has navigated with celestial navigation across the Pacific.. done multiple sail changes at night.. offshore by herself and on a boat she is totally capable and self assured. I proudly call her My Admiral, if I called her the Captain she would probably give me crap and tell me it was not in my power to demote her.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:48 PM   #76
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Appreciating your admiral/companion/first-mate/deck-hand is good, and is regardless of your descriptive.
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:17 AM   #77
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My Admiral picked her preference. If there were a term with a better fit, we’d be using it.

Referring to the OP, my Admiral and I bought a high quality, low-profile mechanical elliptical exercise machine while living in Germany, featuring hand tension controls and sans the usual touch screen or LCD display crap. Part of the strategy was that we may indeed need such a unit for our boating plan. Keep in mind, you’ve got to have the ceiling clearance if you want it inside. Otherwise, if it’s on deck, even the stainless steel units (mostly 304 grade SS) will quickly rust in salt air.

Without the head clearance inside, one might be better off with a sitting design like a bike or rower.
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Old 07-08-2020, 06:19 AM   #78
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WOW... another classic TF debate re "correct" terminology!
I guess "Admiral" gets added added to the list of hot topics... starting with Trawler, anchor, twins/single, thruster(s), diesel/gas, etc, etc

If any of us use terms that imply a Title or Duties we best be careful of how others might interpret it and beat us up for incorrect usage. I'm pretty sure that those of us recreational boaters that use terms like this have our own definition or interpretation that fits and works. I dont see where it's necessary to have one universally accepted definition - after all recreational boating doesn't fall under any command and control structure.
Why is it that I dont see anyone being beat up for using the term Captain? I think that is equally misused here on TF and I dont recall any rants over its use.
Shouldn't Captain be reserved for licensed captains? and maybe "skipper" be used for unlicensed re reational boat operators?
Also - how do you recognize two "partners" sharing and swapping duties? CoCaptains, CoSkippers,
What about where duties are defined or understood and are different but each have veto power... how to define that arrangement.
Many feel "mate" even "first mate" is derogatory...
then what are we to do to please everyone?
Is it necessary to please everyone or better to just understand your own situation and listen, understand, and respect each others opinions / inputs.

B&B...
I'm curious how you define each other? Captains? CoCaptains?
Also you have explained well why the use of Admiral is wrong but I dont recall seeing a clarification re: what is the "correct" terminology to use under the various situational relationships aboard?
Please enlighten us.

Bottom line... who really cares? and is it important?
Should I be concerned how others define their relationship when aboard? (Or when ashore for that matter)
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Old 07-08-2020, 06:27 AM   #79
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You say you have an equal partnership. Well, Admiral and Captain aren't terms of equals.

It's not a matter of equality (or not) in terminology; instead it's a matter of mission. Admirals are in charge for one thing, Captains for another.

Wifey likes to pick areas with wildlife viewing in mind; she can spot a turtle on a branch at 200 yards... whereas I wouldn't see that kind of wildlife it if bit me in the a$$. Wifey can drive the boat (dock, etc.), but doesn't really enjoy it. It's a pretty good partnership.

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Old 07-08-2020, 07:26 AM   #80
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This entire discussion about the use of the term "admiral" is silly. I don't use it to refer to my wife but, IMHO, it's none of my business how another couple chooses to interact with their spouse. I sometimes refer to my wife, adoringly, as my "plump peach". She is not offended at all but I'll bet some here would say it's offensive. It's our business, no one other's.
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