$50K and 1 gph?

[HeadedToTexas]

Another noob question. My first couple weeks of reading suggest that it is possible to find a $50,000 trawler to take a couple and occasional guest around the Loop while averaging just 1 gallon per hour. Is that realistic and what are the downsides of my limitations?

 

[menzies]

When you say one gallon per hour, what exactly do you think you mean?

If you go along at 2 or 3 knots it may be possible, though dangerous.

If you go along at 6-8 knots, not a chance.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Yes, that's what I mean: 1 gph at 8 knots. So the physics simply don't add up that way, eh? I see a 36' trawler with a single Lehman 135. What sort of average consumption is practical?

 

[cardude01]

2gph is doable I would say. My boat averages about 2.5 running the generator at about 7 knots. About 2gph without.

 

[psneeld]

Lehman 120 pushing a 36 footer at 8 knots will burn close to 2 GPH.


My 40 footer with a 120 Lehman burns 1.9 to 2.1 at 6.3 knots.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

2gph is doable I would say. My boat averages about 2.5 running the generator at about 7 knots. About 2gph without.

Speaking of generators, and at the risk of hijacking my own thread, we have spent the last few years worth of weekends practicing off grid life. We can shower with a gallon each, cook with very little gas, light the night on batteries with LEDs, and the like. All of that is nice, but unless you're willing to brave the heat and humidity, air conditioning requires at least 120 VAC. Do many folks cruise the Loop without AC?

Or heat? Is a heat pump the only practical source of heat?

 

[Nomad Willy]

My Willard is one gph and could do the loop w ease but at a much more pleasureable 6 knots. Why go 8?

 

[Aquafarm]

We are planning to do the loop without A/C or gen...and our boat (new to us) did the loop many times in her previous life and spent some of her life in Fl. all without A/C...so if they could do it...
Meanwhile the specs on our boat, full displacement and a 35 hp engine touted 1gph...we have yet to take a long enough run to test that.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

My Willard is one gph and could do the loop w ease but at a much more pleasureable 6 knots. Why go 8?

Six indeed! Guess I'm not sure. Slow is generally better, but had been reading a lot about 8 knots and assumed that was the accepted cruising speed. And yes, I know what happens when you assume! Thanks Nomad.

We are planning to do the loop without A/C or gen...and our boat (new to us) did the loop many times in her previous life and spent some of her life in Fl. all without A/C...so if they could do it...
Meanwhile the specs on our boat, full displacement and a 35 hp engine touted 1gph...we have yet to take a long enough run to test that.

No boat for me yet, and really no set of preferences on which to start a search. That's really what drew me here. My first thought was that a conventional, more upright design meant a trawler and not a sailboat or motor sailer. It also meant a stern cabin, but I'm starting to realize that two cabins means starting at a size or displacement that might not get anywhere near 1 gph.

 

[devorenm]

I wouldn't let fuel consumption sway your decision too strongly - even on the loop (which typically means lots of travel days and many miles covered) fuel isn't the biggest expense. The difference between 2gph (say 4 mpg) and 4gph (say 2mpg) can mean a substantially larger boat with more amenities and at the end of the day an extra $20.00 in fuel per day is a nominal part of your cruising budget. It takes a lot of days of cruising at an extra 20.00 per day to equal the 3 boat bucks you drop on a new turbo etc. Heck, even a slip for the night is likely to run you 50+ dollars.

 

[CPseudonym]

http://www.greatloop.org

Packed with great info if you haven't stumbled upon it yet.

 

[boatpoker]

The boat in my avatar a 38' Benford fantail 7.5knots at 3/4gph with a Mitsubishi 55

My previous boat a 37' C&C in the photo below 8.5knots at 1.6gph with a Perkins HT6-354

 

[Baker]

Prairie 29 1.4gph with a 4KW generator running doing 6.7 knots. A roomy comfortable boat at that!!! SO just a tad above 1gph at 6.7 knots.

 

[healhustler]

Krogen Manatee 36, 24,000 lbs. half load with a Volvo 90 says 1.1 gph at 2000 RPM, 6.2 knots, 7.1 MPH, which pretty much agrees with most Manatee owners I've asked. My Manatee has been refit with a 140 Yanmar and is 1.2 gph at 2000 at identical speed. We'll be starting the loop in Spring 2017 and we're counting on those figures to approximate our budget, plus a bit for idle time and genset if need be. At these lower speeds, a decent full displacement hull doesn't take much to push.

 

[Jeff F]

Six indeed! Guess I'm not sure. Slow is generally better, but had been reading a lot about 8 knots and assumed that was the accepted cruising speed. And yes, I know what happens when you assume! Thanks Nomad.

I've been puttering along the Trent Severn the last few days, much of the time at the 10 km/hr (5.4 knots) speed limit. Using less than 1 gph at that speed in my Mainship 34. I think mpg is the best measure, and the difference between 6 and 8 knots is major - increasing from 6 to 8 causes a decrease of more than a third in mpg for my boat. Put another way, it requires more than 50% more fuel to go X distance at 8 knots than it does at 6. There's nothing magic about 8. For me 6 feels good - quiet, no wake, and low fuel consumption.

Agree that from an overall cost perspective it's not material, but speed is probably the biggest determinant of fuel use.

Put it another way - making big waves will take more - perhaps much more - than 1 gph.

 

[Simi 60]

Agree that from an overall cost perspective it's not material,

Agreed, especially if you want to live aboard with actual comfort.
I have worked out , using fuel numbers from a mate who has had a 55ft and now 60ft trawler with the same engine as what I am buying, that for me to potter over the other side of the bay and spend a week in that virtually empty anchorage , then potter down to to the other end of the bay and spend a week in another and do the same each week I use a similar amount of fuel to what I used to use driving to work in a car/mth

To get a similar level of comfort on something that was economical on the fuel burn would cost at least $400,000 more (catamaran) and that buys how much fuel?

but speed is probably the biggest determinant of fuel use.

Apparently 12lph at 7 knots vs closer to 30lph for 9.

 

[psneeld]

Don't believe a lot of the 40 and under crowd getting over 4
nmpg, less than 2 GPH and up around 8 knots with their Taiwan, semi-sisplacement boats. just not what the people I know and trust believe either that have these kind of boats.


Yes there are boats way down near 1 GPH and up over 6 knots, but few and far between. The closer the hull looks like a sailboat, the better your chances.


8 knots in a boxy, load carrying trawler with a waterline down near 36 feet needs some oomph to make 8 knots...and that takes burning fuel. My Albin 40 is really a small 39 footer and its waterline is only around 34 feet (tough to measure exactly).

 

[FF]

The ALBIN 25 ft will happily do well under 1 GPH .

With its old SABB or a more modern engine it is a remarkable boat , with a CPP too.

About $7K - $20K will get a nice one on a trailer if you wish

6K would be top speed , but much of the loop is speed restricted to 10Klicks , which is about 6K so there would be no increase in transit times.

BEST !!!! of all these boats remain popular , so with a bit of elbow grease (paint sells the boat) you can have the boaters dream,

A Zero Round Trip.

What you buy it for can easily match what you sell it for.

Purchase in "Gods Waiting Room ,Florida" , use it till you drop and take it to the North East , and it would be very hard to loose.

Good Hunting,

Welcome to the ALBIN 25 Site

www.albin25.eu/


The European Albin 25 Ressource Website. ... DIDO Albin 25 AK. This is DIDO, a pocket trawler form the 1970s, our mobile home on the water during summer.



Albin 25 History - Albineers of BC

www.albinbc.com/home/albin-25-history




Of the 2,000 Albin 25s built, many are still doing sterling service, including the 1973 Kie-Lou, whose owners are satisfied they went for something Scandinavian ...

 

[Simi 60]

The ALBIN 25 ft

Sweet baby Jebus, 25ft?

 

[cardude01]

Again, as others have said, unless you are traveling great distances (like crossing oceans) fuel will not be one of your major expenses.

You will spend way more on maintenance and repairs, berthing costs and insurance.

 

[Simi 60]

Yes there are boats way down near 1 GPH and up over 6 knots, but few and far between. The closer the hull looks like a sailboat, the better your chances.

FPB's, Artnautica's and the like

If wanting comfort, REAL comfort in a passagemaker, Waterline length and lots of it , low weight, low windage and low whetted surface area is everything

SetSail » FPB 64

https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/01/10/a-real-sailors-motorboat-launched/

 

[Bruce B]

Interesting thread!
For what its worth, our 38' sailboat burns more than 1 gallon per hour at 6 knots.
Bruce

 

[Nomad Willy]

Don't believe a lot of the 40 and under crowd getting over 4
nmpg, less than 2 GPH and up around 8 knots with their Taiwan, semi-sisplacement boats. just not what the people I know and trust believe either that have these kind of boats.


Yes there are boats way down near 1 GPH and up over 6 knots, but few and far between. The closer the hull looks like a sailboat, the better your chances.


8 knots in a boxy, load carrying trawler with a waterline down near 36 feet needs some oomph to make 8 knots...and that takes burning fuel. My Albin 40 is really a small 39 footer and its waterline is only around 34 feet (tough to measure exactly).

TWO THUMBS UP !!

 

[Nomad Willy]

The ALBIN 25 ft will happily do well under 1 GPH .

With its old SABB or a more modern engine it is a remarkable boat , with a CPP too.

About $7K - $20K will get a nice one on a trailer if you wish

6K would be top speed , but much of the loop is speed restricted to 10Klicks , which is about 6K so there would be no increase in transit times.

BEST !!!! of all these boats remain popular , so with a bit of elbow grease (paint sells the boat) you can have the boaters dream,

A Zero Round Trip.


What you buy it for can easily match what you sell it for.

Purchase in "Gods Waiting Room ,Florida" , use it till you drop and take it to the North East , and it would be very hard to loose.

Good Hunting,

Welcome to the ALBIN 25 Site

www.albin25.eu/


The European Albin 25 Ressource Website. ... DIDO Albin 25 AK. This is DIDO, a pocket trawler form the 1970s, our mobile home on the water during summer.



Albin 25 History - Albineers of BC

www.albinbc.com/home/albin-25-history




Of the 2,000 Albin 25s built, many are still doing sterling service, including the 1973 Kie-Lou, whose owners are satisfied they went for something Scandinavian ...

We went to Juneau Alaska in our Albin 25 and very seldom wished for a larger boat. Most of you view going forth in a 25' boat as camping but it's all a mindset. However I would'nt do the southern half of the loop w/o AC. Except for that though I'd consider it the ideal boat and my Willard too big. I could see the Albin tied to a tree on a riverbank but not the Willard. Most here think in terms of marinas. How often can one anchor out in loop waters?

 

[Baker]

We went to Juneau Alaska in our Albin 25 and very seldom wished for a larger boat. Most of you view going forth in a 25' boat as camping but it's all a mindset. However I would'nt do the southern half of the loop w/o AC. Except for that though I'd consider it the ideal boat and my Willard too big. I could see the Albin tied to a tree on a riverbank but not the Willard. Most here think in terms of marinas. How often can one anchor out in loop waters?

Eric, I think you are coming south on the loop with the winter. So as you arrive down south, so do cooler temps. So it may not be a big deal to have AC in the winter in the south.

 

[psneeld]

Eric, I think you are coming south on the loop with the winter. So as you arrive down south, so do cooler temps. So it may not be a big deal to have AC in the winter in the south.

Heck, until you get to southern Florida, many need heat from the reverse cycle a lot of the nights.

 

[ranger58sb]

Our nominal waterline length is 43.875' -- at 800 RPMs (about 6.5 kts) we burn about 1.2 GPH total, i.e., both engines (2.93 NMPG) and at 900 RPMs we burn about 3 GPH total (2.35 NMPG). These are estimates from our own speed tests matched with Cummins' published nominal fuel consumption rates, not from a FloScan or similar.


Our theoretical maximum hull speed (1.34* blah blah blah) is about 8.88 kts... That would be about 1200 RPMs, 5.8 GPH total, and 1.53 NMPG.


800 and 900 RPMs == quieter than 1200, although some of the additional noise is from our wake.


All this on a planing hull, often but not always comfortable at "trawler" speeds or not on plane... and with engines significantly larger than many of the slower cruisers here.


-Chris

 

[Ski in NC]

38' planing hull with a single 8.3l 450- can do 7.5kts on 1.9gph. Probably could get it down to 1gph at just above idle, maybe 6kts. But not a happy engine running that speed long term.

I figure the big beast burns at least 0.5gph just to spin itself and churn its juices. Not the most efficient machine to go super slow.

If you want best efficiency at low speed, you want a smaller engine that is operating somewhere in the middle of it's operating envelope. Making about half it's rated hp at about 3/4 of its rated rpm. Can't go wrong there.

I spec'd my engine the same way, but for planing speed. I run it there at about half its rated power, about 200-250hp, at about 3/4 its rated rpm, about 1800-2100rpm. Engine is very happy there, but I don't like feeding it there!!

Perkins 4.236, Lehman 80hp, Cummins 4bt are all about the same size and power and would be very happy pushing a mid 30's trawler at 6-7 kts and 1-2gph. Japanese tractor engines tend to be smaller, but can do the job also, depending on size of the boat.

 

[READY2GO]

Another noob question. My first couple weeks of reading suggest that it is possible to find a $50,000 trawler to take a couple and occasional guest around the Loop while averaging just 1 gallon per hour. Is that realistic and what are the downsides of my limitations?

As others have said fuel is not your biggest expense, don't let it decide your boat choice. Buy a boat is comfortable to you regardless of fuel burn, set it up to live on at anchor. Save your money on marina usage instead of fuel and you will be happier (my opinion).

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

Approximately 24' here with a full displacement hull and we sip fuel (1/2 to 3/4 gph) at 5-6 knots. I have no reservations taking my troller on very long journeys as she was built to handle rough seas. No air conditioning in Florida is doable but I am a native and am quite used to it. I have an AC but no generator and the hot weather has rarely bothered me--even at anchor. I actually get cold at nights while at anchor during the summer!