Women boating?

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Who knew? https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...oating-a-cba2381e-efa2-4923-a4c4-02ebe05084ea

 

[HopCar]

This can only lead to trouble.
(Just joking ladies! Please don’t kill me!)

 

[oscar]

<<Dives behind the couch.....>>

 

[Fish53]

Not having the testosterone problem I would be confident women would be far superior to men at operating boats. They do almost everything better than men. (by the way ladies I'm single?)

 

[ancora]

My Sicilian always pilots the boat on Predicted Log Contests. She can steer a straight line, I cannot.

 

[backinblue]

It's the end of the world as we know it. But I feel fine.

 

[RonR]

We stayed up at in the San Juan's for a few days. 1000's of big money boats and huge egos.
We watched a tough guy try to dock his new 50'+ sea ray for about 30 min. It had full thrusters and twins.
He was yelling/screaming at everyone, even the ones trying to help him. There was no wind or current. He just had not developed the skills needed. After he got it to the dock and continued yelling at his wife/kids/dock kids on how it was everyone's fault...
An older lady came in on a beautiful GB 42? She flipped it around and backed it in like a boss, and then tied it up herself not 5 min after the yeller had finished up... It was priceless!

 

[kthoennes]

Huh. Maybe if more women become gondoliers in Venice, the price of a 20 minute ride will come down from fifty two gazillion tourist dollars, plus tip.

 

[Jarrow Lily]

On our boat First Mate does all the helming when leaving or coming alongside, picking up a mooring etc.
Makes sense - we have a heavy single engine long keel motor sailer, an Island Packet SP Cruiser. This needs heavy mooring lines and big fenders. She, like me, is in her mid 70's and small in stature. She finds it hard to rig the fenders and lines.


So, from our perspective, it makes perfect sense for her to control the boat while I rig fenders and lines. It makes best use of our physical capabilities.


Also, she is very good at it.

 

[Bill V]

When I worked in the open pit coal mines we used 200 ton haul trucks that were diesel electric powered and many of our operators were women. When we calculated downtime on the individual trucks it was found that the men always exceeded the women in having higher percentages of downtime. Men were always heavier handed in the operations and had a heavier foot on the throttles as well. Whenever we had a vacancy we encouraged women to bid the jobs. Women follow instructions better and don´t abuse equipment.

 

[Dougcole]

On our boat First Mate does all the helming when leaving or coming alongside, picking up a mooring etc.
Makes sense - we have a heavy single engine long keel motor sailer, an Island Packet SP Cruiser. This needs heavy mooring lines and big fenders. She, like me, is in her mid 70's and small in stature. She finds it hard to rig the fenders and lines.


So, from our perspective, it makes perfect sense for her to control the boat while I rig fenders and lines. It makes best use of our physical capabilities.


Also, she is very good at it.

We also do it this way for anchoring and moorings, though not for docking (I'd like for her to learn docking, but she has been reluctant). She does a really good job running the boat in tight quarters while I am stronger, have a longer reach, am quicker/more confident with knots and line handling and have a better understanding of the capabilities/idiosyncrasies of the windlass. It just makes sense for us to do it that way rather than the seemingly more traditional way of having the wife on the bow.


You run a boat with your brain and she has a big, strong brain but not real big muscles.

 

[GFC]

GW was quite competent at piloting Beachcomber. I'd bet she would be great at driving those little boats on the canals of Venice.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I've never seen / heard a woman in command screaming at a crew member or dockhand in a tense situation. I wish more men could learn that skill. Any of us can learn to be good boat handlers.

 

[Bacchus]

Absolutely agree!
I have told many boaters and like to fo it with couples that no need to raise your voice unless it is to overcome other noise.
Secondly I explain that if anything goes wrong it is ALWAYS the Capt fault... after a few files. Chuckles. Laughs I continue...
Really think about it...
was there a plan ahead of time.
Was it discussed ahead of time
did your mate understand.... did you check for understanding
If it is a skill issue the Capt is responsible to train or find others to train and then check understanding / competency / confidence
Was there a plan B that eould be implemented under XYZ circumstances
Was it understood
Etc. Etc
By the end of that the laughs and sneers usually ate gone.
I have had many report back days, weeks, months , years later that after really thinking about it they understood and agreed and their boating team work had improved significantly.

IMO one of thr best learning & team building opportunities is to grab a chair and refreshment and capt & mate sit snd observe others dock, lock through or raft up. Discuss what they observed that worked well,
what went wrong and why
What could they apply to their routine
Was there anything observed that could be applied to a previous less than perfect situation that eould have helped.
This is much more productive in a relaxed atmosphere than one of excitement after a bad experience
Real learning is dependant on attitude so important to create a relaxed learning environment... what better way than over an afternoon cocktail?

 

[Dougcole]

Absolutely agree!
I have told many boaters and like to fo it with couples that no need to raise your voice unless it is to overcome other noise.
Secondly I explain that if anything goes wrong it is ALWAYS the Capt fault... after a few files. Chuckles. Laughs I continue...
Really think about it...
was there a plan ahead of time.
Was it discussed ahead of time
did your mate understand.... did you check for understanding
If it is a skill issue the Capt is responsible to train or find others to train and then check understanding / competency / confidence
Was there a plan B that eould be implemented under XYZ circumstances
Was it understood
Etc. Etc
By the end of that the laughs and sneers usually ate gone.
I have had many report back days, weeks, months , years later that after really thinking about it they understood and agreed and their boating team work had improved significantly.

IMO one of thr best learning & team building opportunities is to grab a chair and refreshment and capt & mate sit snd observe others dock, lock through or raft up. Discuss what they observed that worked well,
what went wrong and why
What could they apply to their routine
Was there anything observed that could be applied to a previous less than perfect situation that eould have helped.
This is much more productive in a relaxed atmosphere than one of excitement after a bad experience
Real learning is dependant on attitude so important to create a relaxed learning environment... what better way than over an afternoon cocktail?

I get your point and for the most part agree. I will say though that there are times in difficult dockings where a line handler who makes a mistake can screw things up. And people do make mistakes even when they know/understand what to do. They miss getting a loop on a piling, tie the spring line too long, leave a line in the water that gets caught in a prop etc. The person running the boat makes mistakes sometimes but so does the person on deck. It's a team thing.


That's no excuse for yelling though.


Another dynamic that can be difficult though is the husband trying to teach the wife a skill. I know that my wife and I, despite her high abilities and our great relationship, sometimes go through this. It's just something about the spousal dynamic.


I was a saltwater fly fishing guide for many years. I taught probably 300 people, male and female, all ages and from many walks of life how to cast. I am a calm and patient teacher. I completely failed at trying to teach it to my wife, yet one of my buddies had her double hauling in about an hour. It wasn't her fault or my fault, it's just a common marriage thing.

 

[Bacchus]

Doug
I agree with all you say. Accidents, lapses, misses happen to everyone that's human. I didn't mean to imp,imply, the Capt has to do all of what I mentioned... only that it does get done.
No time to yell / blame but when things calm down time to calmly discuss the "what went wrong" and what can WE do about it (together as a team) to reduce the likelihood of it happening again. If problems are treated as a learning opportunity everyone can remain calm and improve.
I also agree, the capt may not be the best instructor. Time to think & talk about skill gaps that would benefit from some training and then how best to get the skills and who might be best to assist / instruct.
Capt does need to initiate those discussions when they don't happen otherwise.

I have found that delegating some tasks can be beneficial in many cases. I rely on my mate (admiral?) To keep a keen Wx eye. Eventhough I have instructed the USPS Wx course many times, I dont need to be the one watching whats happening. Mate understands the basics and resources to check for changes. If / when necessary we discuss the latest info and develop a plan to adjust our itinerary, if/ when appropriate.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I am a calm and patient teacher. I completely failed at trying to teach it to my wife, yet one of my buddies had her double hauling in about an hour. It wasn't her fault or my fault, it's just a common marriage thing.

Exactly. I taught a buddie's wife close quarters boat handling. He couldn't because of the spousal baggage. She picked it up quickly and now does a lot of the boat handle.

I will be hiring a pro to teach mine. I know she will quickly become very capable.

 

[La Mer]

I wonder why is there only an infinitesimal number of women as active member over here?

 

[backinblue]

Because men run the world?

 

[BandB]

Because men run the world?

Wifey B: Did you leave out an "i"?

 

[BandB]

I wonder why is there only an infinitesimal number of women as active member over here?

Wifey B: A number of reasons. I hate to say this but TF hasn't been friendly to women. Several couples and several women have left here due to the treatment and due to the general flavor of the forum. Only a few of us are stubborn enough to persevere. I try to welcome and encourage women but even those who join find, unfortunately, a grouchy old man attitude prevailing. There's a lot of condescension shown here toward women, even spouses, with negative comments and stereotypical labels. Perhaps if there were more women, it would be more comfortable for new women, but until it's more comfortable we're not going to have the number of new women we need. I hate to say these things but the question was asked and I'm trying to just give an honest answer.

 

[guy with a boat]

Wifey B: A number of reasons. I hate to say this but TF hasn't been friendly to women. Several couples and several women have left here due to the treatment and due to the general flavor of the forum. Only a few of us are stubborn enough to persevere. I try to welcome and encourage women but even those who join find, unfortunately, a grouchy old man attitude prevailing. There's a lot of condescension shown here toward women, even spouses, with negative comments and stereotypical labels. Perhaps if there were more women, it would be more comfortable for new women, but until it's more comfortable we're not going to have the number of new women we need. I hate to say these things but the question was asked and I'm trying to just give an honest answer.

You make some good points and I have to agree. The comments are sometimes intended to be funny or tongue-in-cheek, but too often are instead condescending and offensive.

Before one of the grumps dismisses this feedback as “political correctness”, its really just a matter of being respectful to fellow humans. This place would be better with more female participation and that’s less likely when the conversation goes too far in the direction of a grumpy redneck boys club. No offense meant to those grumpy rednecks who remember their manners when posting.

Wifey B, we disagree on a few things but I’m glad you are stubborn enough to hang around and share your opinions. Hopefully a few more women will follow because TF would only improve with that addition.

 

[Andy G]

Working on the assumption that to change an organisation you need to work from the top down, perhaps it is time to extend an invitation to some to the established female forum members to become moderators.

 

[backinblue]

Wifey B: Did you leave out an "i"?

Sorry it's an old Tim Allen joke. I wasn't being serious. The actual quote is:

"Men are pigs. Too bad we own everything." - Tim Allen

 

[Porgy]

Wifey B: A number of reasons. I hate to say this but TF hasn't been friendly to women. Several couples and several women have left here due to the treatment and due to the general flavor of the forum. Only a few of us are stubborn enough to persevere. I try to welcome and encourage women but even those who join find, unfortunately, a grouchy old man attitude prevailing. There's a lot of condescension shown here toward women, even spouses, with negative comments and stereotypical labels. Perhaps if there were more women, it would be more comfortable for new women, but until it's more comfortable we're not going to have the number of new women we need. I hate to say these things but the question was asked and I'm trying to just give an honest answer.

No argument with any of that but, maybe a bit of introspection is in order? You more than anyone here posts volumes of crass sexual innuendo, double entendres, references to your sex life, references to your bleach blonde hair and big boobs, scantily clad young women running around your yacht, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Seems to me you reinforce stereotypes of women yet chastise men for doing so.

My wife belongs to a few women’s boating groups and she says they never engage in that sort of juvenile banter. They actually talk about boats. They support each other, learn about operating, maintaining and fixing boats. Too bad they need to have their own place to do so without the condescension, objectifying and stereotyping by men or women.

 

[Giggitoni]

No argument with any of that but, maybe a bit of introspection is in order? You more than anyone here posts volumes of crass sexual innuendo, double entendres, references to your sex life, references to your bleach blonde hair and big boobs, scantily clad young women running around your yacht, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Seems to me you reinforce stereotypes of women yet chastise men for doing so.

My wife belongs to a few women’s boating groups and she says they never engage in that sort of juvenile banter. They actually talk about boats. They support each other, learn about operating, maintaining and fixing boats. Too bad they need to have their own place to do so without the condescension, objectifying and stereotyping by men or women.

^this!

 

[FlyWright]

No argument with any of that but, maybe a bit of introspection is in order? You more than anyone here posts volumes of crass sexual innuendo, double entendres, references to your sex life, references to your bleach blonde hair and big boobs, scantily clad young women running around your yacht, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Seems to me you reinforce stereotypes of women yet chastise men for doing so.

Well said. All members deserve the utmost of respect but when one posts innuendo and suggestive posts, it undermines the message.

 

[lwarden]

No argument with any of that but, maybe a bit of introspection is in order? You more than anyone here posts volumes of crass sexual innuendo, double entendres, references to your sex life, references to your bleach blonde hair and big boobs, scantily clad young women running around your yacht, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Seems to me you reinforce stereotypes of women yet chastise men for doing so.

My wife belongs to a few women’s boating groups and she says they never engage in that sort of juvenile banter. They actually talk about boats. They support each other, learn about operating, maintaining and fixing boats. Too bad they need to have their own place to do so without the condescension, objectifying and stereotyping by men or women.

.....

 

[backinblue]

.....

LOL, that's one of my favorite lines! But Porgy does make a fair point.

 

[BandB]

No argument with any of that but, maybe a bit of introspection is in order? You more than anyone here posts volumes of crass sexual innuendo, double entendres, references to your sex life, references to your bleach blonde hair and big boobs, scantily clad young women running around your yacht, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Seems to me you reinforce stereotypes of women yet chastise men for doing so.

My wife belongs to a few women’s boating groups and she says they never engage in that sort of juvenile banter. They actually talk about boats. They support each other, learn about operating, maintaining and fixing boats. Too bad they need to have their own place to do so without the condescension, objectifying and stereotyping by men or women.

Wifey B: Valid criticism.

My hair is not bleached.

I do believe they are two slightly different things though. Yes, I do talk sexual a lot and do wear skimpy outfits and perhaps that's somewhat a generational thing. However, in my circles that is entirely different from respect as a mariner. I'm also a 500 Ton Master. I'm surrounded by Female Captains and Engineers. Wearing what I do or looking like I do in no way change my role on board nor do they impact the roles of others.

My husband would never put me or any female down. While I will accept your criticism of me as valid, I do want to point out what I was referring to. The use of the word "admiral" while very acceptable to many is bothersome to others who are equal boating partners as are assumptions the wife is relegated to certain roles. Similarly, men coming here asking for help to make their wives change their minds and see things their way is "I am right and she is wrong and how do I trick the little lady into seeing things my way." Then there are just overt comments about wives and girlfriends as well as many ex-wives made here in posts.

While I will take your criticism to heart, I'm afraid it comes across a bit like blaming rape on what the girl was wearing. Still, I recognize that my attire, my lifestyle, and my attitudes may be offensive to some here and for that I do apologize. If that's offended people and caused them to leave, then I regret it. However, I don't consider admiring sexy women as condescension any more than I consider admiring sexy men in that way. I do consider saying a woman can't be pretty, dress as she pleases, and be skilled as condescension. I also know why specifically several women have left here.

Now, as to your wife's boating groups, are they women only? I'm guessing so and that's the part that I find bothersome is why women must belong to separate groups? Why can't they be comfortable in groups with both sexes and even more sexes. Sexuality is a part of life. We have some incredible gay members here although they keep that aspect of their lives quiet. However, the sex of a boater is irrelevant to their boating knowledge or skill and shouldn't force them to a separate group.

If others feel my banter has run women off from this site, then please let me know privately and I will consider it seriously. RTF did ask an interesting question and I'm glad to see the discussion continue.