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Old 07-26-2020, 11:13 AM   #21
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That's the way company's should operate but not all subscribe to that.

I think the root of the problem is shareholder expectations/demands. Public companies operate with a 1 quarter horizon because that's what public markets respond to, and is what they reward or punish. I think many would love to be able to take a longer view, but public markets want gratification now. And I think that's because for every person who is an "investor" looking for long term value, there are 10-100 who are traders looking to cash in on today's news. It's why you see a lot of companies going private in order to carry out some longer term goals, investments, or shift in strategy.
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Old 08-07-2020, 02:33 PM   #22
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I thought it was interesting that Apple, Microsoft and many big PC / phone manufacturers fought the right to repair movement, which is still there. If you buy a device from a vendor, you should own that device and be able to fix that device if necessary. Instead, they require their service techs to have custom software rigs to download and maintain the system, and can brick it at a moment's notice for any violation of these terms and conditions.


In apple's environment, they simply end of life a product meaning that although you purchased software for the device from their approved vendors (who paid annual developer fees, and commissions on every product sale) can no longer support the EOL device. If you attempt to upgrade an app, it erases the app, downloads the new one, and then says you can't run that new code on this old device. Your working previous software is long gone.

We are between a rock and a hard place, since engine companies build in computers and sensor systems to meet Tier III emissions standards, and then weaponize these systems to protect their service and supply chain. The lawmakers who pass these laws are on the payroll of company lobbyists and not likely to vote in our favor anytime soon.
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:29 PM   #23
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Greetings,
Mr. 99. Ain't capitalism great?


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Old 08-07-2020, 03:35 PM   #24
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A job in my past was with a military contractor. We were forced to take ethics training twice a year... when they themselves were the most corrupt company I've ever known.
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Old 08-07-2020, 06:01 PM   #25
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Well, I think where the Tech companies are now is where US big industrials were in about 1900 or so. At that time, wild capitalism ruled. For example, during a labor dispute at the Homestead Steel Works in the Pittsburgh, PA area between the Ironworkers and the Carnegie Steel Company (who had hired Pinkerton Guards for security), Carnegie and his group quelled the dispute by sending in Pinkerton guards that killed some 10-12 ironworkers who were trying to unionize. While we don't have that kind of activity today, we still have some strong-arm tactics in terms of business operations by some Tech companies. I think Congress is on the right track, and we as boaters should benefit to the extent these Apps and devices are opened up - a lot of innovation will follow.
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:13 PM   #26
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Apple

I have been using Apple/McIntosh since it rolled out of Steve’s garage. What Apple is doing is controlling/protecting it’s operating software by having all app creators build their apps to Apple specs and then paying for the use of Apples systems. By doing this they are able to offer all users the security that others like Microsoft can’t. A lot programmers are not happy by being shut out by Apples’s total control of its product and Apple Apps is a part of its total product.
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:24 PM   #27
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And the above is what I like about Mac stuff, and why I continue to use it. It maintains a certain 'purity' about its hardware and software, that can't just be copied by any Jo Blow. However, I am the first to admit some of the apps are a bit annoying in the way they work, compared say to Microsoft, which I had to use at work so am familiar with.

I guess the old saying is true here. Nothing is perfect.
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:42 PM   #28
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And the above is what I like about Mac stuff, and why I continue to use it. It maintains a certain 'purity' about its hardware and software, that can't just be copied by any Jo Blow. However, I am the first to admit some of the apps are a bit annoying in the way they work, compared say to Microsoft, which I had to use at work so am familiar with.

I guess the old saying is true here. Nothing is perfect.

It works 99% of the time, and I'm happy to pay extra for that. Other products work maybe 60-70% of the time, and waste enormous mounts of your time trying to get it to work the rest of the time. I have no interest in having my time wasted, let along paying for it.
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
And the above is what I like about Mac stuff, and why I continue to use it. It maintains a certain 'purity' about its hardware and software, that can't just be copied by any Jo Blow. However, I am the first to admit some of the apps are a bit annoying in the way they work, compared say to Microsoft, which I had to use at work so am familiar with.

I guess the old saying is true here. Nothing is perfect.
Purity about hardware and software? 80 years ago we called that eugenics when applied to humans, what is the name for that now? Softenics?

Joke appart what hardware purity are you talking about? For almost the last 20 years their hardware is the same as anybody else.
And I do not talk about software where their purity is only a way to lock you down with their products so to increase earning.

Don't mind me though, just a comment

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Old 08-07-2020, 07:50 PM   #30
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I use Windows and Android and they also works 99% of the time.

Different strokes.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:57 PM   #31
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I love all my Apple products because they make my life easier. I am happy to pay a little more to have seamless integration, and I have never wanted to throw my iPad out the window as I did with some windows products. I haven’t tried Android products because I am happy with what I have.
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:22 AM   #32
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It gets crystal clear if we apply what these Tech companies are doing to other common products. So, let's use a Ford Explorer as an example. Let's imagine that Ford requires that you buy all maintenance from them or no warranty, or you cannot listen to music via Blue Tooth in your car unless that music was bought from Ford. We already know the Gov't required all auto makers to open the codes to their systems so Pep Boys can fix your car. Could you imagine how expensive repairing a car would be if the car companies to keep the codes secret? Imagine how good and cheap our navigation apps would be if these app developers did not have to comply with Tech company rules and profit mark-ups?
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:54 AM   #33
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Locking a farmer to a certified repair company / dealer can require them to drag a dead tractor onto a truck and haul it to the repair center 200 miles away while their crops die in the field...
Or pay $125 an hour for windshield time to have a tech scheduled to come check on the issue, only to require it to be in the service center for the repair.

The good news is that older non-electronic tractors are being fixed up and run forever.
The other good news is they are built to run forever...

My dream trawler would have two 80 hp NA Deutz air cooled engines pushing it. It would last longer than all of us combined.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:27 PM   #34
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Yup. I refuse to buy into the Apple fanboy group. Notj to be gained there but a lot of money out the door for nothing better.
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Originally Posted by syjos View Post
I use Windows and Android and they also works 99% of the time.

Different strokes.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:29 PM   #35
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Never tried Android. And, you continue to pay a premium for Apple products that are no better. Bad habits are difficult to break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maldwin View Post
I love all my Apple products because they make my life easier. I am happy to pay a little more to have seamless integration, and I have never wanted to throw my iPad out the window as I did with some windows products. I haven’t tried Android products because I am happy with what I have.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:29 AM   #36
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It gets crystal clear if we apply what these Tech companies are doing to other common products. So, let's use a Ford Explorer as an example. Let's imagine that Ford requires that you buy all maintenance from them or no warranty, or you cannot listen to music via Blue Tooth in your car unless that music was bought from Ford.
I'm about as far from a lawyer as you can get, so this is just me noodling. But I'm not sure I agree with that comparison. Because music in a car is a "side function." Apps and programs on a computer/device are the main function.

Can you buy a Ford with a Chevy engine? No? That's not fair. Why should Ford control it? Etc.

I do use Apple products and am happy with them. Again, I don't know the legalities, but I kind of get that they would want to control it in the way that Ford wants to put their engine in.

I've always been able to have my Macs repaired elsewhere if I wanted to (or do it myself). Not that I have had to make too many repairs, but some. OTOH, I get treated pretty well with repairs by Apple. The one time I took my computer to a non-Apple repair place they scratched it all to heck, so now I either repair myself (thanks to iFixit guides) or have Apple do it.

Note that I'm not saying my argument above is correct or legal - I really don't know. But I'm just saying that your example of music in the car is more like a case for an Apple product (a side function) and you can buy those from anyone you want.

PS: I have zero issues with anyone wanting to use Android or other products. I do slightly resent the implication that I'm wasting my money on "bad habits" by buying Apple. It's just my choice, like which boats I (or you) buy.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:32 AM   #37
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I'm with you Frosty. The seamless integration of the Apple stuff, aided by the iCloud, which means I can take photos on my iPhone overseas, eg, and in a short time they will appear on my iPad and Laptop, and with the date and locality imprinted on them, makes it worthwhile for mine. As to prices. The sheer number of other makes and models does tend to keep them honest re prices, so even if we are paying a price premium for going with Mac stuff, it's not a deal-breaker in my view.

PS. For those who quoted the vehicle example, this actually happens anyway. When you buy a new car - here in Oz anyway - you really need to have it serviced by a franchise dealer to maintain uncontested warranty. Also, most makes tie in roadside assist and fixed price servicing packages to the dealer network in the same way. How's that different from Apple..?
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:50 AM   #38
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I realize I wrote something potentially confusing above when I said "case" and we are talking about laws and trials. What I meant to say was this:

Music in a car is more like an accessory such as a protective case for an Apple product (a side function).
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:12 PM   #39
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The personal computing world we now live in was pioneered by Apple 40+ years ago.
I was an early adopter (mid 80's) and have owned a Mac ever since and a number of PC's, too.

Fortunately my wife insisted that we buy stock in the company in the 90's. Smart girl.
Apple products have never been cheap but they have always been worth it to me.

It is a lot like paying extra to buy a Audi instead of a VW.
Both will do the job but the Audi is a nicer user experience, IMO.

There are naysayers that point out that an Audi is 90% the same as a VW.
I guess I appreciate that 10%. YMMV.
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:25 PM   #40
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Greetings,
Mr. F. "Music in a car is more like an accessory..."


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