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Old 03-12-2017, 10:39 PM   #21
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I think there will still be a demand for coal and oil, not necessarily for energy purposes but for manufacturing of other materials.
I often wondered what we would utilize to manufacture all of that HUGE variety of other goods (particularly plastics) if we continued to just burn up all of our oil and coal reserves as fuel??
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:59 PM   #22
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Greetings,
Mr. be. I can see potential for a landfill site mining operation.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:48 AM   #23
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Don't look at Tesla as a vehicle play-,it's their overall tech and a genius behind them:

Tesla: Upside Potential As Energy Storage Drives Market And Margin Expansion $TSLA
http://www.seekingalpha.com/article/4054194
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:47 AM   #24
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Tesla are used as airport taxi/limos in Amsterdam. Fast, silent, luxurious,a nice ride, well suited to Netherlands.
South Australia state is politically wedded to renewables,and it seems, blackouts. They are now planning a new gas(not gasoline) fired plant to help with baseload electricity, and I hear are being courted by Tesla wanting to sell them battery capacity. Gas might be an issue, we seem to export it all, forgetting to keep some for ourselves, leading to predicted shortages and higher prices, yet we have more of it than about anyone.
Been watching the oil price, seems to be in freefall, something is going on.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:53 AM   #25
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"Don't look at Tesla as a vehicle play-,it's their overall tech and a genius behind them:"

You bet they do not make money on their high priced cars.

They make bucks from selling indulgences.

"Fuel hogs" need to pay homage to the EPA and are fined for making cars folks want,

Its cheaper to offset with purchased indulgences than pay fines , and so far this is all that is keeping Tesla afloat.

Should Triump roll back some of the EPA dreams of tiny death traps for the masses , Tesla will have problems.

"I often wondered what we would utilize to manufacture all of that HUGE variety of other goods (particularly plastics) if we continued to just burn up all of our oil and coal reserves as fuel??"

I thought the "peak oil hoax" was finally over?
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:40 AM   #26
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In my small world, Tesla is a peace of light weight Junk! And it's not green. I've been passenger in Tesla taxis, and the drivers is complaining over, that they must stop and charge the car all the time, they are always cold inside during winter, because Sweden is cold, and the drivers have to save batteries. And I know that my old 1971 Impala with a restored 350 V8 is more environment friendly. Because it has been recycled and restored over and over, so I say invest your money in restoring your old car, and fill it with, what ever the pump gives you, and you are really saving the earth. And don't fall for the latest phone,computer,or stupid Tesla. I'm sorry if I sound critical, but I think cleaner fuel or alternative fuel, is cleaner, than lithium battery's made on the other side of the world with a large help from diesel dumpers, a,s,o.
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:42 AM   #27
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In my small world, Tesla is a peace of light weight Junk! And it's not green.
I didn't buy one to be green, and I can see how it wouldn't be the best choice for a taxi-cab driver in Alaska (let alone Sweden), but it truly is an exceptional car.
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:07 PM   #28
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I had a ride in one from Amsterdam city to the airport. The car was fast quiet smooth and luxurious, and was used as an upmarket "taxi". The driver said it would do 300km between charging, was very happy with it, and did not appear to be driving in a way to preserve battery. The Netherlands being quite flat it was being used in a very suitable area. I liked it.
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:43 PM   #29
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Buy the car maybe, but be afraid of the stock imo.
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:56 PM   #30
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Buy the car maybe, but be afraid of the stock imo.




Its hard to sell stock when its going up daily
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:34 PM   #31
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Its hard to sell stock when its going up daily


It wouldn't be hard for me. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. Is Tesla really worth more than GM? (Not that I like them either).
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:24 PM   #32
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This is really not a valid argument. The grid is constantly being adapted to changing loads and if this 10% arrives, it will not arrive overnight. It will come on gradually and can be dealt with seamlessly.

And in some ways, elec cars could make life easier for grid management. Presently there is a big difference between daytime load and night time load. This requires utilities to daily start and stop large generators, and generators do not like this. Since most car charging will presumably occur overnight, this will tend to flatten the diurnal load curve, and that is a good thing.

Also, charging stations can be linked to the grid in a way to shed the charger load if system load gets too high. Good for the grid, not so good for someone that wakes up to an uncharged car!!

Similar to the issues that come with wind and solar inputs to the grid. These change the issues with power distribution, but all the issues can be worked with. In high solar areas, cheap daytime car charging. In wind areas, cheap car charging when wind is strong.

The grid is not a static entity. It adapts as needed. Slowly, indeed, but the changes are slow too.

I could see myself going with an electric car. Heck, folks around here are doing local trips on golf carts.

I could easily do 90% of my trips in an electric car that had a range of 100miles.

Not going to splurge for a Tesla. Not getting a golf cart. But something in between, could be appealing.

All comes down to batt tech, which is seeing incremental (slow) improvement. I think there are physical limits to storing electrons in a chemical medium, there may be a hard wall there somewhere. Or maybe there will be a step change in tech that will blow our minds. Who knows!!
Get a Volt. Best of both worlds. Electric for most daily driving but an IC engine for the occasional road trip. I've been driving one for five years. When it wears out, I'll get another one.
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:46 PM   #33
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You miss the point by accepting the premise of Tesla being an "automobile company". Tesla is a "transportation automation company", and not luxury sports cars, semi-trucks are the ultimate destination. FF is spot on about how the cash is flowing now but the software and placement in the market will be the ultimate product IMO. Perhaps before Trump's first term is over.
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:32 AM   #34
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"Teslers fate will hang on the price of Oil"

Then its over as the price of fracking has declined to under $40 a BBL, and barring a WAR oil will sell at about $50 a BBL for years.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:35 AM   #35
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Crash the grid? Never unless all electric cars decided to all plug in at the exact same 3 minute period during the hottest day of the year. Even the worst case would only have rotating blackouts of short duration. There has to be multiple equipment failures at peak load to have system-wide failure.
Electric car plug-in after work would just extend the peak load hours later in the day. System operators have predictive computer tools that are very accurate and dynamic. Plus, since the availability of low cost natural gas, there are many power plants sitting idle or at minimum load for the couple days per year when they are allowed to run higher. The running order is based on cost per kilowatt.
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:37 AM   #36
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"Teslers fate will hang on the price of Oil"

Then its over as the price of fracking has declined to under $40 a BBL, and barring a WAR oil will sell at about $50 a BBL for years.

I don't think you spend $100K on a car to save the price of gas, any more than a trawler purchaser is deterred by the price of diesel -- immaterial to the total cost of ownership.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:43 AM   #37
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"I don't think you spend $100K on a car to save the price of gas, any more than a trawler purchaser is deterred by the price of diesel -- immaterial to the total cost of ownership."

The electric cars get sold to impress the neighbors at how "Green" and socially aware the purchaser is.

"I often wondered what we would utilize to manufacture all of that HUGE variety of other goods (particularly plastics) if we continued to just burn up all of our oil and coal reserves as fuel??"

As you can read , there are still folks waiting for Peak Oil to happen.

Most of our "trawlers" are simply a deck house choice on a std hull , not a statement of seaworthy, sea kindly or voyaging ability.
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Old 05-01-2017, 09:39 AM   #38
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Crash the grid? Never unless all electric cars decided to all plug in at the exact same 3 minute period during the hottest day of the year.
Unfortunately, peeps will drive home, plug in, goes to max charge just as all the existing 5-6-7 pm loads pile on, home AC, refrigerator door openings, fire up the evening's dinner preparation, audio visual, lighting etc.

Having the car chargers wait a couple of hours would be good, time of use hydro costs a decent incentive...

As for the stock, how did the old Ballard Power make out?

No easy answers

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Old 05-10-2017, 06:54 AM   #39
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"As for the stock, how did the old Ballard Power make out?"

Dreaming is great ,

I am still waiting for Fusion power , although its been over half a century , so far.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:05 AM   #40
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i cannot afford a Tesla, during the years, I build a couple electric cars just for the fun... Tesla is an impressive piece of technology... impossible tried to mod that thing.. or change any parameter unless you're a certified tesla technician.
I suggest every single teen start right now learn about electric cars.. you're gonna be rich in few years, specially on California.
Electric car is the future...
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