OTDE: experiment fail

[Janet H]

About two years ago we opened the OTDE forum as an extension of the harbor chat area. It was intended to isolate the most vitriolic and polarizing posts we had; those concerning politics, religion and gun rights. Folks were asked to opt in to participate and since that time we have stayed mostly hands off in that topic area.

Over the past months we've watched in dismay as topics went from simple crude humor to outright hate speech and the rancor engendered in that section of the forum has washed out onto the public forums and continues to be divisive and offensive to many. We have had many, many requests for closure.

No part of OTDE lines up with our site guidelines or the intent or spirit of the community:

Be Courteous!
We aim to ensure that the forum is an enjoyable place that you want to visit time and time again. Our philosophy is that we want TrawlerForum to be an online reflection of the boating community. Treat each other with respect just as you would on the water.

• Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Excessive sarcasm, belligerence, insults, profanity, anger, offensive comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and national origin, are not acceptable.

Effective immediately OTDE will be closed. We are a forum about boating and we share an interest in boating commonly. Let's focus on the things we have in common rather than on that which divides us.

There are plenty of excellent places on the internet to discuss politics, gun rights, the merits of various body parts and which flavor of religion is the true way but we are a boating board. Let's stick to trawler related topics - it's what we do best and the interest we hold in common.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[Giggitoni]

??

 

[Bigsfish]

Really your closing it down before I could find it? Now I have nothing to chase down except how to get a shine on boat like Ted’s Very Slow Hand.

 

[Baker]

Really your closing it down before I could find it? Now I have nothing to chase down except how to get a shine on boat like Ted’s Very Slow Hand.

You didn't miss much!!! And you can always buy a new boat to get that shine!...

 

[Bigsfish]

LIAR, LIAR.
Baker there is no way my boat, when new, every shined like Ted’s.

See you in Ft. Pierce with a Flor de Cana.

 

[ancora]

This should make the snowflakes happy, another win for PC another loss for free speech. What a shame.

 

[Baker]

LIAR, LIAR.

See you in Ft. Pierce with a Flor de Cana.

Looking forward to it!!!

 

[Art]

Vanilla rules in TF!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. ancora. The term "snowflake" might not be appreciated in this forum. The former denizens of OTDE will have to behave now. I look forward to your, I'm sure, valuable contributions.

 

[Janet H]

This should make the snowflakes happy, another win for PC another loss for free speech. What a shame.

You do indeed have a right to free speech. The first amendment right reads as follows:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

This was designed to protect the liberties of individuals in the face of oppressive government that would seek to silence opinion in its own self-interest.

Trawler forum is a PRIVATE entity and the first amendment does not protect what you say—only your right to do so.

This means that you can say what you choose, but we may choose not to publish it. You can say what you want but may need to find another way to publish it. The forum has rules and while it's understandable that you are upset, this change is not personal and not aimed at you or any single individual. Posts need to meet the standard for publication at this site.

This change is made after trying something that ultimately wasn't in the best interest of the community.

 

[twistedtree]

Thanks. Now we can get back to talking about boats

 

[Delfin]

Thanks. Now we can get back to talking about boats

And what caliber semi auto works best to protect them.

 

[angus99]

Janet, I think you made the right call and explained the rationale very clearly. Any posters we lose just because they can’t lob grenades on a TF-supported forum will be, IMHO, no great loss and perhaps there will be less incivility via cross-contamination to drive away new posters.

<signed> one of the snowflakes

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,


Mr. 99. Re: post #14. I'm still heeerreee....Bwahahaha...

 

[Al]

Mule the true "Leftest"will be disappointed as well shocked to be shut down so by his "Left Leaning" peers.

It is what it is, now I can focus on the closing down the Southern Border!!

All in good spirits and good well to all. :lol:

 

[twistedtree]

And what caliber semi auto works best to protect them.

1/2" chain. And a Maxwell with automatic retrieve and deploy. That protects my trawler quite nicely.

 

[Delfin]

1/2" chain. And a Maxwell with automatic retrieve and deploy. That protects my trawler quite nicely.

Well, you sound like a possible customer for my Anchor Cannon (pat. pend.). Kind of like a mortar, it fires the anchor, plus 200 feet of chain at evil doers. Needless to say, Rocnas suck in this application. Chain gets wrapped around the roll bar.

 

[Xsbank]

My only regret is the I never went on that site. I would have liked to have judged for myself, but I am nevertheless, content.

 

[Andy G]

Time to amend my welcome to the TF forum post, me thinks:

Originally Posted by Andy G View Post
Welcome aboard the good ship TF.

Good afternoon, I'm the duty hospitality officer and I will show you around the ship. Follow me please.

On the port side is the engine room, the crew in this area speak in a strange dialect not often understood by the rest of the crew, they tend to be highly skilled and are not considered to be dangerous, although occasionally there will be a dispute about how best to configure the centrifugal capacitor for the main shaft( the MK 1 not the MK2 ).

Next to the engine room on the starboard side, the extreme starboard, is a door that you are not permitted to enter without a senior officer present.Take note of the sign on the door 'OTDE enter at your peril'. Crew have been seen to enter and never be seen again. You will notice that the door is on a watertight bulkhead, this is to protect the rest of the crew. I don't know exactly what they do in there, but rumours have it that they are connected to the navigation of the ship. The charts show stormy waters with the Obama shoals on the port side and with the neocon rip to starboard, it's full of icebergs, which some say are getting smaller. Sometime you will see this crew looking back over the stern of the ship, rumour has it they want us to turn around and go back.

At the forward end of the ship is a small but dedicated crew waiting for the order to drop anchor. They are considered to be entirely harmless and you are free to spend some time with them. However, it's better not to mention too much about anchors, as this just encourages them. The only slight issues this crew has is which is the best anchor to use, although they seem to have every anchor known to man, and then some.

Please follow me to the galley and officers mess. Some say this is the true reason the ship was built in the first place. The members of the ward room are a jolly lot, and as long as supplies are in, it's a good place to congregate. There has only been one instance of unpleasantness recently, a member of the mess had a picture of his empty fridge posted on our bulletin board, this caused great consternation through the normally placid crew. A board of enquiry may be convened.

The small group you see on the upper deck, sitting with their feet on the rail and beer in hand are the Oz east coast crew. That lot are so laid back it's a wonder they don't fall overboard. They are by nature members of the officers mess.

Slightly astern of them are the wood craft and screwdriver brigade, they also incorporate the flush em' away crew. These tend to be ex boy scouts and girl guides who like things neat and tidy, and working properly. They are safe to mingle with and give you good advice just like your mother did. They are nominally led by the senior female officer of the ship.

Last but not least is the bridge. The captain and senior officers pretty much let the ship steam it's own course, dodging those melting icebergs, with the occasional court of enquiry if required. They allow no flogging on board, despite hints from some of the OTDE crew. The good ship TF charts her course somewhere between Gilligan's Island and HMS Surprise(Mater & Commander)

Welcome aboard

 

[LaBomba]

I didn’t know about it either but by the sound of it it is the right move to close it and focus on the shine on Ted’s boat.?

 

[Art]

Andy G - Your # 20 i.e. "Welcome Aboard"


Eloquent... to say the least!

 

[ranger58sb]

About two years ago we opened the OTDE forum as an extension of the harbor chat area. It was intended to isolate the most vitriolic and polarizing posts we had; those concerning politics, religion and gun rights. Folks were asked to opt in to participate and since that time we have stayed mostly hands off in that topic area.

Over the past months we've watched in dismay as topics went from simple crude humor to outright hate speech and the rancor engendered in that section of the forum has washed out onto the public forums and continues to be divisive and offensive to many. We have had many, many requests for closure.

You do indeed have a right to free speech.

Trawler forum is a PRIVATE entity and the first amendment does not protect what you say—only your right to do so.

This means that you can say what you choose, but we may choose not to publish it. You can say what you want but may need to find another way to publish it.

We had similar issues in our privately-run owners club forum a few years ago. Tried creating a separate "bilge" area with few guidelines: no porn, no racial or religious bigotry, no calling each other names, etc. That worked for about 15 minutes.

The forum owner made the same decision, after receiving complaints from folks who just wanted to talk boats. And the forum owner was then excoriated by the rabble for obviously being: ultra liberal, Catholic, ultra conservative, Jewish, black, Lutheran, Latino, Green, Muslim, immigrant, Scottish, Nazi... all simultaneously, of course.

IOW, whoever felt disadvantaged sometime in their lifetime by some group or other seemed to assume folks who didn't want to hear their noise were obviously members of that (fill in the blank) group. Blame seemed to be more important to them than boats.

-Chris

 

[angus99]

This is a huge issue that goes well beyond the Trawler Forum: how to protect freedom of expression while limiting its abuses. TF’s decision to ban what was becoming a safe harbor for hate speech is a very small step against an overwhelming international problem. There’s an excellent op-ed in this morning’s NYT on the subject of internet-inspired hate and violence: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/30/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage. As the article concludes, there’s no simple solution.

Just my thoughts: Once upon a time, when people spoke or wrote publicly, their real names were usually associated with their words. Anonymous speech was rare and often confined to pamphlets or unscrupulous/careless publishers. If people openly advocated killing those of another race, gender or religion, they faced accountability, public censure and perhaps surveillance.

Today, anyone with a keyboard, an online account and a grievance can spew literally anything—no matter how vile, threatening or patently false—to vast audiences across the globe while receiving reinforcement from like-minded extremists. Some say the answer is more speech—not restrictions by social media providers. But the problem is that many of these people operate in echo chambers where they receive little pushback and often see their twisted world-views magnified. Many people, who would otherwise push back, avoid sites that allow unfiltered garbage so the worst posts go unchallenged.

Some confuse the right to free speech—which is sacrosanct (but not without conditions)—with some imagined right to be published, which is not guaranteed anywhere in the Constitution. Maybe one answer is for social media platforms and forums to require people who want to use their sites to have the guts to use their real, verified identities when they post. Certainly controversial and not a cure-all, but it might thin the herd of trolls, bots and miscreants that currently pollute internet forums.



Please note: angus99 is not my real name.

OK, RT: go for it .

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 99. RT Firefly is not my real name either BUT I very much admire his Julius/Groucho Marx) character and his......Wait for it












......timing.

 

[BandB]

Maybe one answer is for social media platforms and forums to require people who want to use their sites to have the guts to use their real, verified identities when they post. Certainly controversial and not a cure-all, but it might thin the herd of trolls, bots and miscreants that currently pollute internet forums.



Please note: angus99 is not my real name.

OK, RT: go for it .

It's not anonymity that does it. The most extreme are proud of their views and they're the ones who seem willing to use their own names. Just look at some of the recent arrests of domestic terrorists and they've posted their hate online, under their real name. The most extreme spew their poison in person as well.

The issue rests with the remainder of us who have allowed extremists unchecked opportunities to express themselves and haven't stood up and said "this is wrong." There's no first amendment right here, it's simply what each of us and then we as a community choose to tolerate. I will not tolerate hate talk in person or online. I won't tolerate someone saying they wished someone would kill a particular public official. I think most of us recognize when a line is crossed but we've too often stood aside and done nothing.

One problem is that it becomes contagious and both sides of arguments tend to go way too far. An environment is created that says anything goes, it's all ok. No, it's not all ok. There's an old term "polite society." It originally referred to etiquette and manners of the upper class. But why shouldn't all classes have etiquette and manners? Perhaps if we chose to have a polite society, we'd work these things out better.

We're on our way to NC. We felt a need to see the kids in the orphanage we frequent there this weekend. We could say we're going for them but it's more to refresh our hearts and minds. We will have a roundtable discussion regarding some of the recent events with them as we had after the problems in Charlotte and have had at other times. They consider everyone there to be a brother or sister. All races, all ethnicities. In many ways they're like the world and how it should be. They'll talk openly and express many different views but always in a respectful, even loving, manner. They will politely challenge each other. They will share and learn. They give us hope, hope that they're the future, that if this group of kids ran the world, it would be so much more a pleasant and safe place. They don't need an OTDE room to go talk. They don't talk like that in private as their "society" is self policing in that regard. Yes, this weekend, we'll spend time in a healthy environment for all. We'll come away renewed and with a spirit better than the one we go in with. The roundtable will only be a couple of hours maximum and then it's back to kids being kids and allowing us to be kids with them, it's back to the problems of teenagers or elementary age. It's playing kids games. See, nothing will be said in the discussion that prevents us all from laughing and giggling together after it.

One of the kids said something last time we had a roundtable like this one planned. They said "we think of each other as our brothers and sisters. Why can't the entire world be like that?"

 

[ranger58sb]

It's not anonymity that does it.

One problem is that it becomes contagious and both sides of arguments tend to go way too far. An environment is created that says anything goes, it's all ok. No, it's not all ok. There's an old term "polite society." It originally referred to etiquette and manners of the upper class. But why shouldn't all classes have etiquette and manners? Perhaps if we chose to have a polite society, we'd work these things out better.

One of the kids said something last time we had a roundtable like this one planned. They said "we think of each other as our brothers and sisters. Why can't the entire world be like that?"

In order:

I still think anonymity is a major contributor. Yes, some (few) use true name, but there are gazillions of screen names...

Agree, but "polite and courteous" seems (temporarily?) unattainable these days. Supporters of Theory A are often labeled as evil by supporters of Theory B, these days... and vice versa. That's way beyond "I disagree with you."

Indeed. I'll just never understand why some people think color or race or religion or et cetera have anything to do with anything. Nor will I understand why people who think that also think they get a vote about whether those attributes are important or not.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

Anyone feel like me that it wasn't the OTDE that was the failure....

 

[Bay Pelican]

My only regret is the I never went on that site. I would have liked to have judged for myself, but I am nevertheless, content.

Never went on the site but I have no regrets.

 

[Delfin]

Never went on the site but I have no regrets.

A private forum like TF has every right to set whatever rules of usage they think appropriate, so I have no problem with elimination of any sub forum the owners/managers see fit. It does seem a bit sad, however, that the simple remedy of suggesting that just not going there is the solution if you're offended isn't determined to be the most sensible reaction.


Were it me, rather than shutting up the 99% I'd have no qualms about telling the 1% who use a private speech platform to continuously beat whatever political dead horse irritates them or to abuse people to get a life and go elsewhere, but as I said, that's just me.