No more diesel in Oregon?
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twistedtree
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FF
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Of course home heating oil is a fine substitute for diesel, and the price does not include road taxes. The Euros have been doing this for decades!
The loons will have a hard time telling the state homeowners they need to freeze every winter ,or to switch to renewable wood
The loons will have a hard time telling the state homeowners they need to freeze every winter ,or to switch to renewable wood
trihartsfield
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lol
trihartsfield
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You get what you vote for!
Portage_Bay
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This is a link that attempts to explain the proposed laws. There are two in the works. https://www.opb.org/article/2021/03...te-change-legislation-diesel-emissions-bills/ It's hard to say what will happen because there are two proposed laws, they are only proposed and there will be well funded and well organized opposition.
What i get from reading the piece is It's not a ban on diesel but a multi year phase out of petroleum-based diesel for renewable diesel.
Which brings to mind something I learned long ago from a man far more intelligent than I. "Be careful you're not finding the right answer to the wrong question."
The laws seem to be focused on exhaust emissions. Renewable diesel may produce cleaner exhaust. If so that's the right answer. But for the wrong question. The right question is which fuel is in total cleaner. I don't know the answer to that question. But one has to look at the total environmental cost of both fuels. If the fuels, materials and machinery needed to farm biomass to make diesel produce more harmful emissions extracting and processing crude then the balance shifts in favor petroleum-based based diesel. A full examination of both fuels start to finish would be needed to make an informed decision.
It will be interesting to watch these laws move through the system. I doubt very much the final outcome will be based on finding the right answer to the right question. It will be a battle between politics and corporate power.
What i get from reading the piece is It's not a ban on diesel but a multi year phase out of petroleum-based diesel for renewable diesel.
Which brings to mind something I learned long ago from a man far more intelligent than I. "Be careful you're not finding the right answer to the wrong question."
The laws seem to be focused on exhaust emissions. Renewable diesel may produce cleaner exhaust. If so that's the right answer. But for the wrong question. The right question is which fuel is in total cleaner. I don't know the answer to that question. But one has to look at the total environmental cost of both fuels. If the fuels, materials and machinery needed to farm biomass to make diesel produce more harmful emissions extracting and processing crude then the balance shifts in favor petroleum-based based diesel. A full examination of both fuels start to finish would be needed to make an informed decision.
It will be interesting to watch these laws move through the system. I doubt very much the final outcome will be based on finding the right answer to the right question. It will be a battle between politics and corporate power.
AlaskaProf
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Recreational boats, maybe. Semi's, locomotives, ships? Nope:
Southern Pacific Company v. Arizona, 325 U.S. 761 (1945)
Unless you operate your boat on the highway, the proposed law doesn't prohibit the use of petroleum diesel. Vehicles covered include:
“Motor vehicle” means every self-propelled vehicle operated on the highway, exceptan implement of husbandry used in agricultural operations and only incidentally operated ormoved upon the highway.
As it exempts farm equipment, it could get some farmer support as this would potentially open up new markets with biodiesel.
Jim
“Motor vehicle” means every self-propelled vehicle operated on the highway, exceptan implement of husbandry used in agricultural operations and only incidentally operated ormoved upon the highway.
As it exempts farm equipment, it could get some farmer support as this would potentially open up new markets with biodiesel.
Jim
sean9c
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The bill also tasks the DEQ to determine if there is sufficient non-petroleum based diesel to meet demand. It doesn't say what would happen if it's determined that there aren't sufficient alternatives.
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FF
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"What exactly is the benefit expected of this proposed legislation?"
One loon can claim to be "greener" than another loon.
Think "no discharge" laws for small boats , while the town discharges millions of gallons of waste while annual maint is done to single town plant.
One loon can claim to be "greener" than another loon.
Think "no discharge" laws for small boats , while the town discharges millions of gallons of waste while annual maint is done to single town plant.
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This bill will never pass. It COULD never pass. They are not prohibiting the sale of diesel engines, this is diesel FUEL. They'll have a very difficult time getting trucks to deliver anything in the state. You're not moving a cement mixer with an electric or gasoline engine.
We've seen similar in the past, such as the restriction on the sale of 2-stroke motors (but that didn't restrict their use). Even when leaded gas was banned, it was the cars, not the fuel that was banned.
You can't expect the entire state to collectively replace assets like that.
We've seen similar in the past, such as the restriction on the sale of 2-stroke motors (but that didn't restrict their use). Even when leaded gas was banned, it was the cars, not the fuel that was banned.
You can't expect the entire state to collectively replace assets like that.
Don't know why it couldn't pass? It is not an elimination of diesel, it is replacing petroleum diesel with biodiesel for motor vehicles.
Whether, it is possible, cost-effective, or even worth persuing is for the folks in Oregon to figure out.
Jim
Whether, it is possible, cost-effective, or even worth persuing is for the folks in Oregon to figure out.
Jim
SteveK
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Why not? By 2035 only electric cars, planes and trains will be built. This is just a small step.
DrissZougari
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Do these people know that world economy depends product shipped by Sea that require Diesel to operate!
OP
OP
RT Firefly
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Greetings,
I seem to recall when ethanol was mandated as a fuel additive, corn prices rose causing a food shortage in some of the poorer areas in those countries where corn was a basic staple (think tortillas/tacos). I wonder if the same will occur when soy, corn and other biodiesel base materials are used for energy rather than food?
From Wiki: "If the entire arable land area of the USA (470 million acres, or 1.9 million square kilometers) were devoted to biodiesel production from soy, this would just about provide the 160 million tonnes required (assuming an optimistic 98 US gal/acre of biodiesel)."
I seem to recall when ethanol was mandated as a fuel additive, corn prices rose causing a food shortage in some of the poorer areas in those countries where corn was a basic staple (think tortillas/tacos). I wonder if the same will occur when soy, corn and other biodiesel base materials are used for energy rather than food?
From Wiki: "If the entire arable land area of the USA (470 million acres, or 1.9 million square kilometers) were devoted to biodiesel production from soy, this would just about provide the 160 million tonnes required (assuming an optimistic 98 US gal/acre of biodiesel)."
Lou_tribal
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Biodiesel is basically a non sense, you need more diesel to produce it than what you produce. The only biodiesel that would make sense is one made from byproducts. And even then, this would not address the one issue all this try to solve, meaning global warming. Be bio or not you still burn it.
But don't trash the idea of having trucks and/or locos powered by something else than diesel, you would be surprised to see how much focus is put to this in the industry.
L
But don't trash the idea of having trucks and/or locos powered by something else than diesel, you would be surprised to see how much focus is put to this in the industry.
L
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Seagulls here like a hot chip/french fry. Boats burning old cafe deep fryer oil are often followed by a cloud of seagulls.
Honestly, this proposal sounds like madness to me.
Honestly, this proposal sounds like madness to me.
FF
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"Honestly, this proposal sounds like madness to me."
The madness is the concept that after over 4 Billion + years of the planet changing temperature that mankind is the reason for the temperature changes , and that by throwing away enough money the changes will stop.
Yes the planet is changing, as always , so perhaps planning for the change might make more sense ?
The madness is the concept that after over 4 Billion + years of the planet changing temperature that mankind is the reason for the temperature changes , and that by throwing away enough money the changes will stop.
Yes the planet is changing, as always , so perhaps planning for the change might make more sense ?
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Oregon is run by idiots. It's a fact.
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I am with you Steve.Why not? By 2035 only electric cars, planes and trains will be built. This is just a small step.
I am far from an expert on these subjects, however, I do not understand the zeal that is often shown to this subject. Let's all get electric cars, trucks, boats, etc. I do not understand how, in the long run that turns out to be "greener"? Where is all of the increased demand for electricity going to come from?? Fossil fuel burning (how does that actually help?), nuclear, hydro electric (what about all of the accompanying flooding and "lost land"?), how are we going to afford the increased infastructure, etc. etc. This does not address the "carbon footprint' of producing these batteries, nor the aspect of disposing of "spent batteries" (I understand that very little of some of these batteries can be properly and completely recycled) which adds to the overall carbon output issue.
How using some of our food production capability for "diesel" helps, is beyond me?
I don't know, maybe I am just a "dinosaur" and "don't get it"???
Don't misunderstand me, I am not of the mindset that pollution does not matter, but do want to look at the issues in "holistic" way rather than a "knee jerk" manner.
stubones99
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“Petroleum diesel” means fuel produced from the distillation of petroleum or its
products that is suitable for use in a compression ignition engine.
(B) “Petroleum diesel” does not include fuel that consists of a blend of petroleum diesel
and biodiesel or other renewable diesel, as those terms are defined in ORS 646.905, where the
biodiesel or other renewable diesel is at least 99 percent of the mixture by volume.
By their definition, that might include gasoline too!
Phase in 2024-2028 simply means trucks will fill up outside the state, and do their business in Oregon, causing wear on their roads with some other state getting the fuel tax benefit with little road wear...
And the Oregon taxpayer will have to foot the bill to replace existing public infrastructure and equipment to meet this bill.
The bad news is this idiocy is promoted by a republican...
products that is suitable for use in a compression ignition engine.
(B) “Petroleum diesel” does not include fuel that consists of a blend of petroleum diesel
and biodiesel or other renewable diesel, as those terms are defined in ORS 646.905, where the
biodiesel or other renewable diesel is at least 99 percent of the mixture by volume.
By their definition, that might include gasoline too!
Phase in 2024-2028 simply means trucks will fill up outside the state, and do their business in Oregon, causing wear on their roads with some other state getting the fuel tax benefit with little road wear...
And the Oregon taxpayer will have to foot the bill to replace existing public infrastructure and equipment to meet this bill.
The bad news is this idiocy is promoted by a republican...
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catalinajack
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Idiocy is not confined to one political party. There are plenty in both.
stubones99
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Common sense is now considered optional equipment...
stubones99
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I stand corrected...
I wonder if Tesla is going to make an electric tractor?
I hear that some tractor manufacturers are making hybrid tractors now...
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