No more diesel in Oregon?

[Derik]

Joke of a State

At this point, almost everything that happens in Oregon just really delivers in terms of entertainment value.

I've never even been there, but if I ever do, I'm taking my own water.

I just returned from a trip to Oregon to visit my father who lives about an hour from Portland and my mother who lives in Washington. I flew into the airport everything around there is a mess graphitti everywhere, almost nobody was on my flight and the airport was a ghost town.

I was watching the Portland news where the news caster went on to say that the protesters should continue their burning and looting because the portland police haven't learned their lesson yet? My mom tells me how thats the general attitude she hears from the media out of Portland.

On the Flight back I went from Independence Oregon to the airport the areas around the freeway look like a 3rd world country lots of homeless camps and once again graphitti everywhere. Police are retireing early and and there are major cuts the leadership of the state and the city of Portland is a big joke. Beautiful Country there in Oregon but nuts run the entire state, very little big business if any there and small business is closing down.

So get this I was so happy to be living in San Diego! Where there is some moderation! believe it or no California is run better than Oregon!

On a boating note Oregon offers little but a few small bays and a rough cold Ocean so I would do my best to make it to Washington on a trip from the South.

 

[catalinajack]

Very interesting. My son moved to Seattle from San Diego about six months ago. He is a lifer in the Navy, elite to tire in less than four years. Although they both very much liked living in San Diego, they now much prefer living in Seattle, so much so that they plan to live there after he retires. I guess Washington is much different than Oregon.

I just returned from a trip to Oregon to visit my father who lives about an hour from Portland and my mother who lives in Washington. I flew into the airport everything around there is a mess graphitti everywhere, almost nobody was on my flight and the airport was a ghost town.

I was watching the Portland news where the news caster went on to say that the protesters should continue their burning and looting because the portland police haven't learned their lesson yet? My mom tells me how thats the general attitude she hears from the media out of Portland.

On the Flight back I went from Independence Oregon to the airport the areas around the freeway look like a 3rd world country lots of homeless camps and once again graphitti everywhere. Police are retireing early and and there are major cuts the leadership of the state and the city of Portland is a big joke. Beautiful Country there in Oregon but nuts run the entire state, very little big business if any there and small business is closing down.

So get this I was so happy to be living in San Diego! Where there is some moderation! believe it or no California is run better than Oregon!

On a boating note Oregon offers little but a few small bays and a rough cold Ocean so I would do my best to make it to Washington on a trip from the South.

 

[JLD]

Different strokes for different folks.

I went to Portland for two weeks in October 2019. Stayed downtown, lots of restaurants, great shopping, and more food trucks than I have ever seen before. Spent the weekend driving along the Columbia River Gorge and went to Mt. Hood and hiked up to the top of Multnomah Falls. Had a great time.

Only thing that could of made it better would have been access to a boat on the river!


Jim

 

[Derik]

JLD, I did almost the same thing but I crossed over into Washington and looked at land in Goldendale. I have family in both Oregon and Washington they all say Washington although not what it once was ( I grew up there) is still way better managed than Oregon. I failed to see the beauty of Portland..but did see a lot of beauty in the countryside of Oregon.

Catalina Jack I agree with the Seattle area being better than San Diego for now except of course for the weather! and that will never change. I am looking for a dryer climate in Eastern Washington.

 

[KnotYet]

Biodiesel is basically a non sense, you need more diesel to produce it than what you produce. The only biodiesel that would make sense is one made from byproducts. And even then, this would not address the one issue all this try to solve, meaning global warming. Be bio or not you still burn it.
But don't trash the idea of having trucks and/or locos powered by something else than diesel, you would be surprised to see how much focus is put to this in the industry.

L

LT, you may not know that after developing a working engine, Rudolf Diesel made a
version that ran on vegetable oils in 1900.
Even then he was concerned about the air pollution that his engines and others made.

The other thing you may not understand is that bio fuels created from biomass don't
add significantly to carbon related climate change.
They only add back carbon they have previously removed from the environment.

There are multiple sources of biologically obtained biomass to draw on.
It is unlikely that you could replace all petroleum fuels with renewables
and that doesn't appear to be the goal in Oregon.

 

[JimW]

Well now I know why the mascot of the University of Oregon are the Ducks . . . Quacks that like paddle . . . I know this will ruffle some feathers?! Once again using food for fuel leaves many mouths empty . . .

 

[backinblue]

Different strokes for different folks.

I went to Portland for two weeks in October 2019. Stayed downtown, lots of restaurants, great shopping, and more food trucks than I have ever seen before. Spent the weekend driving along the Columbia River Gorge and went to Mt. Hood and hiked up to the top of Multnomah Falls. Had a great time.

Only thing that could of made it better would have been access to a boat on the river!


Jim

I used to go to Portland on business and thought it was one of the best cities I've visited in the country. Even spent some vacation there I liked it so much. I wouldn't return now and I suspect if you were there in 2019, it's not the same place today. Regarding this thread and and similar politics, pay attention to who you vote for and what they stand for. Biden clearly stated he wanted to replace fossil fuels with greener alternatives, so we get what we vote for. Vote on policy, not on personality.

 

[Shrew]

Why not? By 2035 only electric cars, planes and trains will be built. This is just a small step.

You sort of missed my point, though. You're referencing the engines that burn the fuel, while this is the fuel itself. Much different.

 

[Parro]

There are millions starving already, doesn’t make any sense to convert limited food supplies into fuel if the fuel users then have no food.

 

[SteveK]

This bill will never pass. It COULD never pass. They are not prohibiting the sale of diesel engines, this is diesel FUEL. They'll have a very difficult time getting trucks to deliver anything in the state. You're not moving a cement mixer with an electric or gasoline engine.

We've seen similar in the past, such as the restriction on the sale of 2-stroke motors (but that didn't restrict their use). Even when leaded gas was banned, it was the cars, not the fuel that was banned.

You can't expect the entire state to collectively replace assets like that.

You sort of missed my point, though. You're referencing the engines that burn the fuel, while this is the fuel itself. Much different.

You may be correct, try again to make your point.

 

[backinblue]

It's 2 completely different things but in the long run the result is the same.

In 1 scenario, the govt can say all new vehicles being built must be electric powered. In another scenario, no fuel-powered vehicles can operate beyond a certain date. I agree they are 2 totally different things that eventually lead to the same result.

 

[JLD]

There are millions starving already, doesn’t make any sense to convert limited food supplies into fuel if the fuel users then have no food.

Yet, we continue to have gasoline with ethanol.

Jim

 

[backinblue]

Yet, we continue to have gasoline with ethanol.

Jim

I get the philosophical point but.....

In the U.S. almost half of the corn crop is used to produce ethanol. Yet I can still buy corn in the grocery store very cheaply any time. If we stop making ethanol, would everyone start eating twice as much corn as they do today? I don't see many people starving due to lack of corn.

 

[Derik]

The problem with proclamations is that the politicians aren't smart enough to figure out the consequences until it's too late. So here in California we have so many cases where proclamations or wish list progressive ideas are mandated then the consumers pay for the consequences. A good example is our electricity. The proclamation was 30% renewable by
energy by 2020. This doubled our per kilowatt prices over time and put us in the lead for the some of most expensive power in the country as well as gave us black outs and brown outs. Wind power from other states was not considered renewable nor was hydroelectric power from Washington/Oregon Power companies got richer.
We have a shortage of power, water and police due to these same brainless thug lovers.

 

[backinblue]

The problem with proclamations is that the politicians aren't smart enough to figure out the consequences until it's too late. So here in California we have so many cases where proclamations or wish list progressive ideas are mandated then the consumers pay for the consequences. A good example is our electricity. The proclamation was 30% renewable by
energy by 2020. This doubled our per kilowatt prices over time and put us in the lead for the some of most expensive power in the country as well as gave us black outs and brown outs. Wind power from other states was not considered renewable nor was hydroelectric power from Washington/Oregon Power companies got richer.
We have a shortage of power, water and police due to these same brainless thug lovers.

I understand and sympathize, but as I've said many times, we get what we vote for.

 

[Derik]

Yes exactly what we need to do is not fall into the R or the D trap. The politicians keep us divided so they can do what they please and still get a large percentage of the vote because they have a D or an R in front of their name.

When you hear "I would never vote for _____ because he's a democrat or he's a Republican.. that's what they want. Bad policies don't discriminate by party both the D and the R have many. I am a Libertarian in most cases, so most government is bad but we all need to try to keep an open mind and pick the lesser of two evils regardless of party.

 

[backinblue]

Derik, I don't disagree, but too often I think voters pick who they like the best, not what their policies are. Biden promised bigger govt, higher taxes, green energy, liberal border policy, etc, and he got more than half the popular vote, so we get what we (the majority) wanted apparently. Trump has a very abrasive personality, regardless of what he stood for, so he was easy to hate and vote against. I'm not making this about Dems vs. Reps, I just think that voters don't realize they are voting for a whole agenda, not just the man who is president.

 

[Derik]

Backinblue unfortunately your correct for all independent voters and a few open minded R or D. When I had someone tell me how much they hate Trump I would simply say I would be ok with Charles Manson as President as long as his policies were most popular and he helped a greater amount of Americans. So I am a bit different in that I could careless how likable the person is.

Do you pick the nicest most likable doctor, financial advisor, mechanic or even barber? Or the one who does the best job and looks after your best interest?

In this country we pick the one of a certain sex, color and political party who's favored by the media. So we get inept politicians.

We need to have Logic's courses taught in College or at least High School and drop the party line voting.

 

[backinblue]

Derik, I couldn't agree more, unfortunately we are in the minority in our thinking, hence the current state of our politics. This last election was a perfect example. They were more different on policy than most elections. I never thought I'd hear a candidate promise to raise taxes and win an election, yet here we are. Voters were more interested in who thet liked or disliked more as an individual.

 

[FF]

"Yet, we continue to have gasoline with ethanol."

Farmers have a lobby , almost as strong as the teachers unions.

Farmers get paid not to plant, teachers get paid , promotions , salary increases , medical coverage , retirement benefits even if they don't teach.

 

[backinblue]

Sorry FF, what is so wrong about ethanol? I agree with the rest of your points and blame it on the strong unions.

 

[catalinajack]

Teachers get paid when don't teach! That's a new one on me. Examples?

"Yet, we continue to have gasoline with ethanol."

Farmers have a lobby , almost as strong as the teachers unions.

Farmers get paid not to plant, teachers get paid , promotions , salary increases , medical coverage , retirement benefits even if they don't teach.

 

[catalinajack]

What's wrong with ethanol? Everything! Ethanol subsidies are nothing more than welfare for farmers. The production of ethanol consumes more fossil fuels than it saves by adding it to gasoline. And then there is the damage it does to small engines of every sort including outboard engines. Think about all of the stabilizers that must be used to add to gasoline to keep it from going bad.

Sorry FF, what is so wrong about ethanol? I agree with the rest of your points and blame it on the strong unions.

 

[rslifkin]

Our ethanol issue isn't so much that we have ethanol, it's that we're making it from corn, which is far from the most efficient source of it. But the US doesn't have a big source of sugar cane to make ethanol from, so...

 

[backinblue]

So if we can produce a surplus of corn, more than is needed for human or cattle food, why is it evil to turn it into fuel? What am I missing?

 

[backinblue]

What's wrong with ethanol? Everything! Ethanol subsidies are nothing more than welfare for farmers. The production of ethanol consumes more fossil fuels than it saves by adding it to gasoline. And then there is the damage it does to small engines of every sort including outboard engines. Think about all of the stabilizers that must be used to add to gasoline to keep it from going bad.

I agree that ethanol is not great for some engines. I don't know enough about whether it makes financial sense or not, but it sounds hard to believe that it costs more and consumes more fuel than if we had no ethanol at all.

Here's at least one article that says otherwise.

https://knozone.com/blog/truth-abou...environment.-,FACT,process used to produce it.

 

[JLD]

Backinblue unfortunately your correct for all independent voters and a few open minded R or D. When I had someone tell me how much they hate Trump I would simply say I would be ok with Charles Manson as President as long as his policies were most popular and he helped a greater amount of Americans. So I am a bit different in that I could careless how likable the person is.

Respectfully, my thoughts are a bit different. My expectation is that any leader have some degree of ethics, morality, and empathy. I think this guides the decisions that they make and is more important than their likeability.

Jim

 

[backinblue]

Respectfully, my thoughts are a bit different. My expectation is that any leader have some degree of ethics, morality, and empathy. I think this guides the decisions that they make and is more important than their likeability.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I don't disagree. Ideally I would like to see great leadership qualities like you describe along with a platform that I agree with. However, saying someone is moral, ethical, and empathetic, kind of says that he is "likeable". Maybe there is a better word for it. The point I was trying to make was that given the choice, I would pick someone who is lacking in those personal qualities but supports policies I agree with than the opposite. That's where the expression came from "hold your nose and vote for....."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course and disagreement doesn't have to be nasty or ugly. I'd also suggest it's not often we end up with an ethical and moral candidate to choose from unfortunately.