Maritime Jobs, help with giving a 17 year old direction

[BandB]

From what I hear this type of work (and in some cases pay) is not quite as romantic as many make it out to be. But, if he truly loves it, he can take the good with the bad like any other profession.

Is any "work" romantic. It is a 4 letter word. I enjoy what I do but today I can delegate what I don't want to do to others. You're right about this profession, both commercial and yachting. It's hard work. Every job has it's boring parts and it's hard parts, routine and urgent. The sea does add water for those who like it but also adds risk. Decidedly, working on ships is not like cruising on trawlers.

However, I find most do like their work. We have a young female engineer who did 18 months on supply vessels. They don't decide not to go out in the Gulf because the seas are 4' and it's windy. You also address problems immediately and don't shut down. She knew she was in for a challenge but she earned respect and admiration for those who did it and from them. Not just the company but her co-workers tried to talk her into staying. She got 294 days of sea time in 18 months too. Even more she learned she could tackle any engine room on any boat. She also said it was a life to adjust to and more difficult for families then seamen at first but actually a pretty nice way to make a living as it pays extremely well and working 28 on and 28 off is like having 6 month long vacations in a year. She said the families of the men she met missed them but said they got more time with them than any other families did. There are a lot of commercial people who do some recreational work on their time off as well. Talking to her I definitely developed a better understanding of that part of the industry.

 

[rsn48]

If it were my son, I would recommend he set his sights on becoming a marine pilot, a long haul but good money and interesting.

 

[jdecris]

In my mid 40s, (late 1990s) I was looking for a different career, and since I had always enjoyed boating and being out on the water, started thinking about making a living there.

While in Maine one summer, I went to a local summer marine event and there was a small tugboat docked, and I was drawn to it.

I went to the nearby Maine Maritime Academy in Castine, Maine, and found out everything I could about the degree program. One of the things I learned was they had summer programs where students went to work out in the industry for credit and experience. One of those work places was in the Gulf of Mexico with Tidewater, at the time said to be the largest single vessel owner in the world.

I thought about it for a while, and decided, rather than commit to a four year program, why not just go down to New Orleans, apply for a job with Tidewater, and see if I liked it. And I did just that. And I got interviewed, screened, hired, and entered into their standard training.

It was a solid and rigorous two week training program - all on the company's nickel, and I had a great and long first stint out at sea on a 125' light ocean tug. We were out there for 28 days straight, caught in bad weather and unable to make the crew switch on regular schedule.

In the end, to make a long story short, even though it was a wonderful - even great - experience, I decided it wasn't the life/career for me.

So the point is - and I don't know how much actual experience the 17 year old has - but it might not be a bad idea to try out what you think you want to do and actually work at it first before making a larger monetary / time commitment.

 

[38ark]

I’m aCMA grad with engineers license. Don’t know if the SIU, Sailors international union still has a school. It’s more like a trade school. Seem to remember some school up in the Seattle area that might have been through a junior college Or something.
I Worked on tugs out of San Francisco for about 12 years through 1996.
Feel free to contact me if you want to talk about the industry. Been out of it for some time but still have friends out there.

 

[BandB]

So the point is - and I don't know how much actual experience the 17 year old has - but it might not be a bad idea to try out what you think you want to do and actually work at it first before making a larger monetary / time commitment.

A great point and one reason I recommend a Maritime Academy. They will expose you to many things and then you'll get a degree and licensed in such a way that you can go in many directions. The direction he'll ultimately choose may be nothing like the one he's favoring today.

 

[Fletcher500]

If it were my son, I would recommend he set his sights on becoming a marine pilot, a long haul but good money and interesting.

Agree, they get paid very well (I believe around $250K with some overtime involved at the largest ports) and they dont have to travel. I know 3 ex class mates who are Pilots for LA and Long Beach. They put their time in and got Unlimited Master licenses first, but a good way to go if you can get in because they are sought after jobs.

 

[Nepidae]

Maritime Jobs

1st, we have 3 sons and a daughter. The 3 sons are involved in the Maritime Industry, 2 ship for a living.

Where did you get the idea that as a 3rd mate he wouldn't make much money?

The oldest graduated from King Point, the 5th US Military Academy, the other 2, are twins, graduated from Massachusetts Maritime Academy.

The Kings Point/USMMA grad came out of school and his 1st job, on an LNG ship started at $80K and after his 1st cruise he got a $10K raise. Keep in mind that sailors work on an on/off schedule. His was 3 on/ 3 off. Not good money?

BTW, when you go to an Academy you graduate with a 3rd, but you are a qualified 2nd, you just have to put in the time, then take a test.

Now, you didn't want a military obligation. Well Kings Point is, as all the MM schools are, a military base. Maybe CA is different, you can attend in shorts & flip flops. Mass Maritime MMA doesn't have a military obligation but it nis a school military in operation. Tuition is $25K, scholarships, out of state tuition help. USMMA is $6-8K 1st yr and $2K each subsequent yr. They go to sea during the yr, you need 360days of sea time, some can be done on a simulator, but sea time is required. USMMA people go to sea on the commercial fleet and are paid sooo, they earn money to cover tuition. MMA has a ship they go out on so no chance to earn any money, but tuition isn't high.

When you graduate from USMMA you are in the reserves for 5yrs. NO MEETING REQUIRED. Because they ship they can't be expected to attend meetings. So my son who graduated in '08 is now a LT CMDR in the Navy Reserve and I think attended 1 - 2week stint, at his timing.

USMMA has a great campus, go to NY and visit. Contact the school for more info.

Tell your son, he won't be 17 forever. Tugs may seem a good idea now, they won't be in 10yrs. You can't make the money on a tug you can on a commercial ship. When my son, due to family and child decided to leave shipping he would go on interviews and would hear, oh, you graduated from Kings Point, good school. Like graduating from Harvard. He's now landside and making $100K a yr, still by the water.

Also, 1 of his KP people told him about this job and he interviewed with another. So, as they say about Harvard, you will always be employed.

1 of the twins works for MSC (Military Sea Lift Command) a DOD job so he has Fed benefits. He stsarted at about $60-70K. He spends a little more time at sea, but there is overtime for that. The other twin works out of a union hall and goes to sea based on that schedule. He's been home for about 4mo now so he is waiting for a ship. He's making about what the other twin makes and both are getting their 2nd now.

Keep in mind, Tugs are like pilot jobs, few & far between and don't pay as well as pilot jobs. Going at it without a degree makes you a deckhand, AB. A lot of climbing involved after you hit the deck of the boat.

Your 4yr degree gives you a big leg up. Well worth the time.

The USMMA grad went to work on Gulf supply ships to the rigs. Without school, he'd have been an AB. Instead he was 3rd officer, 2nd under the Captain.

IF you have any specific questions, give me a shout and we'll talk. He's thinking tugs because of you. Get his head out of there and don't let him squander his schooling to this point on a nowhere position.

Good luck.

 

[psneeld]

Anyone who thinks tug jobs are few and far between...holy cow.. not even close in my book.

True they might pay less....but for every ship I see, I see a 100 tugs.

Sounds like an airline pilot that thinks the only aviation jobs are with the airlines, or driving with only the major trucking companies.

There is always more.

Also in my opinion...just like the airlines versus other aviation jobs, driving a ship versus being a good tug captain, despite lower pay, the tug captain is often a much better vessel handler....goes to personal satisfaction.

 

[Nepidae]

I'm sure you are speaking from experience so we'll let that pass.

Maybe a job as an AB, because you see so many tugs that must be the case. I thought we were talking about shipping jobs.

If the kid wants to work off a tug, then there may be more opportunities.

Keep in mind, he's trying to break into an industry with no experience. If he want to ship, AB is where he will start behind everyone else, just to learn the ropes.

Think all you want, tons of tugs. See what the reality is.

 

[BandB]

Now, you didn't want a military obligation. Well Kings Point is, as all the MM schools are, a military base. Maybe CA is different, you can attend in shorts & flip flops. Mass Maritime MMA doesn't have a military obligation but it nis a school military in operation. .

For the record, Cal Maritime students do wear uniforms even though not a military school.

 

[psneeld]

I'm sure you are speaking from experience so we'll let that pass.

Maybe a job as an AB, because you see so many tugs that must be the case. I thought we were talking about shipping jobs.

If the kid wants to work off a tug, then there may be more opportunities.

Keep in mind, he's trying to break into an industry with no experience. If he want to ship, AB is where he will start behind everyone else, just to learn the ropes.

Think all you want, tons of tugs. See what the reality is.

I have no clue what you are saying, but I have friends that worked their way into tug jobs , up from 6 packs and were never ABs.

Don't let your own limited experience pollute others dreams.

 

[Fletcher500]

Good thread, and I appreciate hearing from people who have a lot of maritime experience because I have been shoreside for most of my career. Since I retired 6 months ago one of my goals is to get more involved with the Cal Maritime Alumni Group and recruiting potential students. We have had several friends kids attend there. The most recent is on his second year as an ME. He started going out on our boat with us when he was 10 years old and those experiences were one of the primary reasons for his college choice and a maritime career.

I attached a photo of some mates in our flip flops and shorts in the boiler room, 1986. We took our shades off for the photo. I am the guy on the left who cant paint. The guy on the far right (with the clean boiler suit) was my roommate, and one of the sharpest engineers I have ever known.

 

[oceancrosser]

You said...


He wants to work on Tug Boats, specifically to be a Captain on some point. He has been looking to attend the California State University Maritime Academy.

Since I am an inland water guy with little experience on the blue water side, I am not sure if you are talking about ocean going tugs or tugs on the inland waters.

My son who is 33 YO is a Pilot on an inland river tugboat who started about 10 years ago as a deckhand going up and down the Mississippi River and he now has all of his licenses (Inland, Great Lakes and Western Rivers) with the radar endorsement.

He had ZERO connections when he started at the bottom of the food chain and worked his way up. There are many Captains on the river who's sons, fathers and uncles where tug boat Captains so obviously the career path is a good one.

The pay with a good company is pretty darn good for a Captain and comes with excellent benefits. Most work either a 28 on/off or some version of that. Many companies will allow the Captains of that boat to "work your schedule out among yourselves".

College is great for some but for many, it's waste of money and time.

Rusty

 

[ancora]

There are brown water companies with permanent ads in "Boats and Harbors" and other publications that need captains, mates, unlicensed engineers, and deck hands, both AB and OS. With the insurance companies now demanding random drug testing, there are always openings in the brown water fleet.

 

[RonR]

Good thread, and I appreciate hearing from people who have a lot of maritime experience because I have been shoreside for most of my career. Since I retired 6 months ago one of my goals is to get more involved with the Cal Maritime Alumni Group and recruiting potential students. We have had several friends kids attend there. The most recent is on his second year as an ME. He started going out on our boat with us when he was 10 years old and those experiences were one of the primary reasons for his college choice and a maritime career.

I attached a photo of some mates in our flip flops and shorts in the boiler room, 1986. We took our shades off for the photo. I am the guy on the left who cant paint. The guy on the far right (with the clean boiler suit) was my roommate, and one of the sharpest engineers I have ever known.

His app should be available to us on Thursday.

 

[captmikem]

Just a little info that may help your son.

I started sailing commercially on offshore tugs, went to container ships and RO/ROs, Megayachts, and US cruise ships. I started on foreign flag tugs of US companies, then sailed US flagged tugs. Back then you could buy a Panamanian Deck Officers license with not too much work, build your sea time then sit for a US Mates License and build seatime for Master.
Things have changed a great deal since then.

First off, he needs to spend the time and money to get an STCW. One can not get on the water without an STCW.

On tugs, you normally go from Mate to Captain after a years seatime. Large licenses (above 1000/3000 ton) you go from 3rd mate plus a years seatime to 2ed mate, then another years seatime to chief Mate, and another years seatime to Master. Plus you sit for an exam for each license upgrade.

If indeed he is handy with tools many tugs (150’ or less) have a “Mate/ Engineer or Deck/engineer. I worked for Crowley for a while and even they had deckhand/engineer. Having engineering skills puts you ahead of the game on tugs and yachts.

Seatime is needed. Does not matter how you get it, but you need it, Most US tugs are under 300 tons, time on vessels over 300 tons is what you would like to get. But all time is good.

Since you are in the PNW there is a guy up in Canada that runs an international crew agency; Darcy Narraway. He is a good man and if you actually show an interest, (not just send him a resume’) He can find you work on workboats or yachts. His company is called Yacht Crew Register. Have your son give him a call and talk to him, He could advise him on the best way to get time, and hopefully find him a ship. Mind you, time on Mega Yachts is good time, pays well and is fun (on most of them, hell on others).

Just remember, you have to be aggressive, go out and see the people you want work for, call them, keep after it. Your job is getting a job on a vessel, spend hours each day pursuing it, it won’t come to you.

Good luck to you and your son.

M

 

[Steve Jackson]

He will also need a TWIC card to get any USCG documents. STCW training is normally about a week long and not that expensive. The TWIC caard is goodd for 5 years, and is a also not hard to get. He will have to have tee required ID's and I think it is $120 now (mine is sttill goodm have to renew it next year)

 

[Alaskaflyer]

He might want to check into the Great Lakes Maritime Academy. It's a very small school, and with what he already has under his belt, he may be able to get through it in less than the full 4 years at other schools. The regiment is much more relaxed than somewhere like SUNY Maritime where I went, and he'll still end up with the same third mate unlimited license, which he can use anywhere.

A former coworker of mine with whom I keep in touch has his son in his last year at Great Lakes Maritime, started out in the engineering program but switched to the deck officer program, he (father) can’t say enough good things about it. Plenty of opportunities for summer sailings with either industry or the Michigan state training ship, on what they call “sea projects”. Traverse City ain’t a bad place either.

His two boys pretty much grew up on the waters of Isle Royale in Lake Superior, during summers.

 

[RonR]

Thank you all for the help, his app for Cal has been submitted for a MET.

 

[BandB]

Thank you all for the help, his app for Cal has been submitted for a MET.

I'm amazed at how well the Maritime Universities do their jobs. I've never known anyone who went to Cal Maritime, although I'm sure there are some, who regretted going there. It prepares them for a good career, starting with above average earnings, but also is a good experience.

Meanwhile I know people who have been to most non-Maritime schools and have said if they had it to do over they'd go somewhere else.

 

[RonR]

Thank you everyone for the tips.
My son was just accepted to Cal Maritime for Marine Engineering Technology. All of us are very excited!

 

[BandB]

Thank you everyone for the tips.
My son was just accepted to Cal Maritime for Marine Engineering Technology. All of us are very excited!

Wifey B: I think he'll be very happy with this decision.

 

[Wayfarer]

Congratulations cadet! I think Ms. B is right. Having that training in his back pocket will serve him well. Best of luck!

 

[FF]

We live in a society that worships paper.


Good for him on the path to get his papers.

 

[BandB]

We live in a society that worships paper.


Good for him on the path to get his papers.

Wifey B: Some of us believe in the knowledge gained in getting the paper. Yes, we do value engineers who have been through great programs like Cal Maritime. However, we also have experience with such engineers, having hired them and seen their skills and knowledge.

I also value the paper I have in my profession as I know the effort I put in and the knowledge I gained.

It's become popular with some to put down college education. I'd never claim it's right for everyone although I would say everyone needs some type of post-secondary education. I'd also say if anyone goes four years and earns a degree and didn't gain knowledge along the way, then I'd hold them accountable, not just the institution.

He's proud of his son and I am too and to snipe at the diploma he'll work hard to receive is entirely inappropriate here.

 

[FF]

"to snipe at the diploma he'll work hard to receive is entirely inappropriate here."


No sniping involved or intended , just a comment on the direction society is moving.

 

[ancora]

Thank you everyone for the tips.
My son was just accepted to Cal Maritime for Marine Engineering Technology. All of us are very excited!

Good for him! My son graduated in 1995, and made Chief Engineer before he was 30 years of age. Right now he is the chief engineer on a tanker in the far east. He goes to sea for three months...then three months off.

 

[RonR]

"to snipe at the diploma he'll work hard to receive is entirely inappropriate here."


No sniping involved or intended , just a comment on the direction society is moving.

True enough, One of the best employers I have ever had once gave me this advise.

Don't ever confuse Knowledge with Wisdom!

Knowledge is information of which someone is aware. Knowledge is also used to mean the confident understanding of a subject, potentially with the ability to use it for a specific purpose. Wisdom is the ability to make correct judgments and decisions. It is an intangible quality gained through our experiences in life.


Its the same reason I am on a Trawler forum with a East Coast fishing boat.
Most of you have the Wisdom I seek, for projects I would like to do myself.
And I thank you for your willingness to pass on that Wisdom.

If anything at all I hope my Son takes this same advise.

 

[bligh]

"to snipe at the diploma he'll work hard to receive is entirely inappropriate here."


No sniping involved or intended , just a comment on the direction society is moving.

Except in this case, the 'paper' signifies actual training and job experience as opposed to most college educations that simply teach kids America is evil.

 

[twistedtree]

Except in this case, the 'paper' signifies actual training and job experience as opposed to most college educations that simply teach kids America is evil.

Man, have you been brain washed.