I am surprised(and nothing related to trawlers)

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firstbase said:
Depending on what you read, Russia gives us anywhere from 3%-7% of our crude oil import. It's not like they give us 60% which is the Canadian contribution of our total. We can't ramp up production and call on others to cough up a little more to cover this tremendous loss?

NOTE: I am not an offshore, or onshore, oil driller nor have I played one on TV.
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Or we can figure out how to consume a little less. It's been done before. Remember where the national 55 mph speed limit came from? The rising prices alone should cause a pullback in demand. If the Germans can make the commitment to boycott Russian oil, it make America look shameful that we can't do the same.
 
78puget-trawler said:
But in the end they did, didnt they? They were stupid to make a deal with the Devil, but having figured out that the green way wasnt going to cut it for them, they had to get gas from somewhere, and they ended up with egg on their face, and then belatedly came around.
Not sure what you mean by not having skin in the game, but to some extent we all do, whats going on there affects the whole world in one way or another.
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Germany blundered when it shut down its nukes before having viable long-term alternatives. Perhaps they thought they were dealing with a nation that was becoming too enmeshed in the global economy to blatantly violate international law and savagely attack a neighbor. If so, they were wrong—which seems obvious enough in hindsight—but perhaps not when Nord Stream was conceived.

My point is that decisions that were made years ago and are now coming back to bite Germany (and other nations that wanted to believe Russia was slowly integrating with the rest of the world) were not as cut and dried as you portray them. I give Germany credit for making a wrenching decision to cancel Nord Stream at huge cost once the enormity of Russia’s criminality could not be ignored. Not having a stake in Germany’s energy or economic future (aka “skin in the game”) offers plenty of cover to make sweeping pronouncements from the comfort of our armchairs.
 
The conflict is simple in it's origin. Russia wants Ukraine under its sphere as it has natural resources, agriculture and most importantly is a buffer geopolitically up against Western Europe. Mother Russia invites western European leaders, hungry for a greener world and racing headlong to that objective, into its "oil bed". Once adequately seduced and smitten with Russia, Russia proceeds with the annexation of Ukraine. (2008, 2014, the present). Europe is still pining for "the bed" with no other lovers in their sites. Furthermore, Natasha has a pistol beneath the sheets (nukes) aimed at the European lover. And, there you have it. Is there any likelihood that Russia will stop? Doubtful.

Now substitute Lithuania, Moldova, Germany, Poland, Italy for the Ukraine in the first sentence and this scene can play over and over, perhaps not with land conquests but with other demands. Look at Lavrov today inserting himself in the Iran talks and, by the way, what the heck are we doing paving the way for Iranian nukes anyway?? We need to sanction and isolate Russia, Iran and all bad actors. Redevelop our energy independence. Decapitate regimes set on doing harm to the world and make sure we have the best military capabilities on the planet. The world is not a nice place; read world history to gauge man's true spirit.
 
Angus, talk about learning from history, how many items can you buy today in the US that are NOT made in China? Not many I'm afraid.

Regarding the Ukraine as a buffer for Russia against the west, I don't really get that. Once Ukraine becomes part of Russia, isn't that buffer gone? Then what is the next buffer, Poland, etc? We need leadership in the US that will stand up against foreign threats, both present and future. That seems to be lacking at present time.

Also, if you agree climate change needs to be dealt with, why is it a crime to be energey independent as we move in that direction? How does importing oil help that cause? Support is growing in both parties to boycott Russian oil and increase domestic production. Whatever your political stance is on current events, I urge you to let your elected officials know your opinion. That includes your congressional representatives, leaders of congress, VP and President. Take a few minutes and write an email. We live in a democracy, take advantage of that.
 
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backinblue said:
Angus, talk about learning from history, how many items can you buy today in the US that are NOT made in China. Not many I'm afraid.

Regarding the Ukraine as a buffer for Russia against the west, I don't really get that. Once Ukraine becomes part of Russia, isn't that buffer gone? Then what is the next buffer, Poland, etc? We need leadership in the US that will stand up against foreign threats, both present and future. That seems to be lacking at present time.

Also, if you agree climate change needs to be dealt with, why is it a crime to be energey independent as we move in that direction? How does importing oil help that cause? Support is growing in both parties to boycott Russian oil and increase domestic production. Whatever your political stance is on current events, I urge you to let your elected officials know your opinion, That includes your congressional representatives, leaders of congress, VP and President. Take a few minutes and write an email. We live in a democracy, take advantage of that.
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Amen to that. George Freidman publishes "Geopolitical Futures", a daily review of geopolitical goings-on. Excellent. He has also written a book called "Flashpoints" that outlines why these countries feel they need buffers. I don't get it either, however, particularly in this day and age of long range bombers, drones and ICBMs.
 
78puget-trawler said:
But in the end they did, didnt they? They were stupid to make a deal with the Devil, but having figured out that the green way wasnt going to cut it for them, they had to get gas from somewhere, and they ended up with egg on their face, and then belatedly came around.
Not sure what you mean by not having skin in the game, but to some extent we all do, whats going on there affects the whole world in one way or another.
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Oh yeah, green energy is definitely not cutting it in Germany...:rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany
 
backinblue said:
Angus, talk about learning from history, how many items can you buy today in the US that are NOT made in China? Not many I'm afraid.

Regarding the Ukraine as a buffer for Russia against the west, I don't really get that. Once Ukraine becomes part of Russia, isn't that buffer gone? Then what is the next buffer, Poland, etc? We need leadership in the US that will stand up against foreign threats, both present and future. That seems to be lacking at present time.

Also, if you agree climate change needs to be dealt with, why is it a crime to be energey independent as we move in that direction? How does importing oil help that cause? Support is growing in both parties to boycott Russian oil and increase domestic production. Whatever your political stance is on current events, I urge you to let your elected officials know your opinion. That includes your congressional representatives, leaders of congress, VP and President. Take a few minutes and write an email. We live in a democracy, take advantage of that.
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I have no problem with becoming more energy independent—certainly less dependent on foreign sources that are hostile to us or their neighbors. Total energy independence currently is a fantasy unless we don’t care how we procure raw materials or what we do to the climate. Full energy independence will occur when we have advances in battery technology that allow renewables to become more than a niche player. Nuclear fusion wouldn’t hurt, either.

Like you, I don’t buy the idea of a buffer, but I’m not a military expert. Putin’s aim, I believe, is a return to empire, and to enshrine his name in Russian history as a conqueror. By all accounts, he had no idea he would meet the wall of resistance from the West he’s currently facing. Please share what you would do to “stand up to foreign threats” that the US isn’t currently doing—other than cutting off Russian oil, which is under consideration. (Penalty points if you accidentally trigger WW3.) :)
 
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Swa said:
Lots of politics here. That's ok This is a great thread. Moderators please consider keeping this going without your audit. This is a very life changing topic that has great implications in all our lives. Were all concerned adults and capable of handling a few curveballs. Let this go This forum is a great group of people that try to help one another. Were all pretty stressed along with every one else that's been paying attention. I don't follow many other forums etc. Just sort through the news and try to make sense like everyone else. This is a topic concerning our passions Trawlers, cruising, fuel... Living... Lives We have all been threatened. Nobody is cruising anywhere if we all die in a nuclear war. As for others that want to block it all out just click the back button. I get it. Stressful stuff. Politics, religion etc. it doesn't matter. Its all involved. If you get insulted... so what! Its not cancer Being insulted wont do anything to you:)
My 2 cents
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This thread nor any other will NOT be UNMODERATED here on TF.
The future of the thread is in the hands of those posting. Keep it civil and avoid politics and it will continue.
I'd doesn't matter that posters state " no politics" as a lead in...
And certainly doesn't matter that posters feel strongly about their position.
If it violates TF rules Mods will have to keep it inline or close the discussion- the choice us in your hands.
 
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This is being reported here:
"Russian President Vladimir Putin says Western sanctions on Russia are akin to a declaration of war, and he warns any attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine will lead to catastrophic consequences for the world."


The West was previously warned any interference in the invasion(it wasn`t called that) would lead to terrible consequences. But, the West is arming Ukraine and publicising it. No response so far.
Russia previously said sanctions didn`t work with Russia, but now this. Perhaps the sanctions are more inventive and more effective than anticipated. But will there be a response? Is the approach just to "warn off" or will there be a terrible response?
It`s already terrible for Ukraine.
Time will tell, weakness of response is dangerous,strong response is dangerous. Putin may be looking for a trigger to blame the West to declare all out war. Time will tell.
 
Just a thought. In general, no politics is a good policy. Just like religion and sex and other topics that can cause friction and not end happily. However, when the world is closer than ever to the brink of WW3, it's hard to bury your head in the sand and act like it's not real and just continue to argue over the best anchor. I wonder if TF has ever considered having a politically-oriented category where opinions can be expressed w/o fear of being censored. Those that don't want to discuss anything politically don't have to go there, but those that want to discuss political or world events and how they affect boating are free to do so. Not sure if that's been suggested before, but I'm curious what the mods or other members think.
 
backinblue said:
Those that don't want to discuss anything politically don't have to go there, but those that want to discuss political or world events and how they affect boating are free to do so. Not sure if that's been suggested before, but I'm curious what the mods or other members think.
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Yes, and it was a miserable failure. TF loses members every time it lets politics get out of control. The stats show it. Aren't there plenty of other places to discuss politics? Why does it need to be here?

Also, it interferes with discussing the boating issues surrounding major world affairs and prevents discussions of what the impact will be on boating.
 
BruceK said:
This is being reported here:
"Russian President Vladimir Putin says Western sanctions on Russia are akin to a declaration of war, and he warns any attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine will lead to catastrophic consequences for the world."


The West was previously warned any interference in the invasion(it wasn`t called that) would lead to terrible consequences. But, the West is arming Ukraine and publicising it. No response so far.
Russia previously said sanctions didn`t work with Russia, but now this. Perhaps the sanctions are more inventive and more effective than anticipated. But will there be a response? Is the approach just to "warn off" or will there be a terrible response?
It`s already terrible for Ukraine.
Time will tell, weakness of response is dangerous,strong response is dangerous. Putin may be looking for a trigger to blame the West to declare all out war. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Again, mister Poutine (a well known food here) is barfing but he merely knows that catastrophic consequences for the world means the same for his world.
My take on this is that Ukraine will be sacrificed to get rid of him. Nobody will risk a direct conflict considering potential casualties.
But no doubt the economic sanctions will wreck the country to the point that he will loose his supporters. Just looking at comments from top fortunes for the last few days and you can see that the ones who are loosing their panties start to be fed up already. Give them some time and when they will see their fortunes melting in spring they will start to think that they need another state head.
But during these coming weeks, people will die and suffer and all this because us, as a collective whole, we watched an hateful clown rising during 20 years without doing anything.
When USSR felt down, instead of helping the country to rise we left a hole. As nature does not like vacuum, that hole has been filled by one miserable egomaniac psycho who thought to take the opportunity to be someone.
Again history is just endlessly repeating itself, same happened 104 years ago with results we now know.

L

L
 
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Noted, backinblue. Of course we`ve not seen your post but remember, discussing Moderation is prohibited.
Following my earlier post, I hear USA will provide Poland newer aircraft to replace its old MIGs if they give them to Ukraine. Poland might be mulling the consequences their generosity might bring.
 
On Friday Visa announced Russian credit card transactions will no longer be processed in the network

Yesterday it was announced those transactions will be processed via a Chinese network. That was quick.

One day after the chat about getting planes from Poland, Russia took out another Ukraine airport. Apparently via cruise missiles launched from ships.
 
While all eyes are diverted to Ukraine, we have been renegotiating Iran sanctions. More like just eliminating them since its reported how much we give up and apparently get zero for it. Maybe someone has some logic to share.
 
FWT said:
While all eyes are diverted to Ukraine, we have been renegotiating Iran sanctions. More like just eliminating them since its reported how much we give up and apparently get zero for it. Maybe someone has some logic to share.
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LOL, good luck with that...
 
Debating Iran sanctions using a tenuous Russian connection could kill this tread.
 
KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST AMEND CONSTITUTION AND REJECT CLAIMS TO ENTER ANY BLOC

UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES

IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’ - SPOKESMAN



Sorry but the caps were in the text quoted
 
The logic of the Putin's demand astounds me -- essentially: we just attacked and invaded your country and we want pieces of it permanently, but if you promise to never align yourself with a bloc of other countries for defensive purposes, we'll go home and leave you to clean up the wreckage and bury the dead.
 
What about China offering their credit card system and backing Russia? When do we wake up and realize China is not our friend and we need to start pulling manufacturing out of their country? Recognizing this cannot occur overnight but the world is changing, and we all will need to get use to higher pricing on many items. Fortunately, not every boat manufacturer builds in China and with the costs of building there increasing significantly over the past few years maybe this is a good time to pull out and set up shop elsewhere.

John
 
Greetings,
Mr. N. Of course China is not our friend. China's ONLY friend is itself. $$$$$$ speaks louder than anything both in China AND the rest of the world. Why do you think you seldom see Made in USA much anymore? Companies both in American and most every country have moved their facilities to China for those $$$$$ mentioned above. That's the "beauty" of capitalism. Make the most profit you can for the owners and shareholders.


As I've mentioned many times, it's China's velvet invasion. A LOT smarter that Putin and other invaders using strong arm methods.
 
I've read a lot of conflicting reporters on the credit card processing switch (the cc switchover I mean, not banking Switch). A number of stories I've read say the integration or switch to China's UnionPay will not be quick and easy. You don't wake up one morning and start using an entirely different credit card system nationally. Either way though, the long term fallout from this crisis will be fascinating to see. World banking and market realignment. Energy realignment. Security realignment. If Putin is truly all about reinforcing Russian sovereignty and power and empire, running into China's arms, making Russia more dependent on China's grace and mercy makes any potential danger he sees in Ukraine look insignificant. You don't snuggle up with Beijing without paying a profound price long term. I continue to be mystified at his logic.
 
Greetings,
Mr. JLD. Thanks for that. LOTS of opportunity for China to "help" central Asia when the dust settles....
 
Remember China cannot feed itself.

It buys lots of grain from Latin America and the US, and goes back and forth depending on the value of the dollar which affects their cost.

They own the US pork producers. But those operations are here and in a pinch some nicely phrased version of nationalization is possible. We are exporters of chicken. We raise our own beef. We grow more grain than we can consume.

China is watching what we are doing with Russia. You have to bet they are adjusting their own contingency plans accordingly.

We can be energy independent. We can feed ourselves. Our military remains dominant when we remember how to properly use it. At the core we have the best position on the board so long as we don't step on our own shoelaces.
 
We basically are energy dependent. Some years we import slightly more than we export, as sometimes the opposite.

There is a good article from 2018 from the American Petroleum Institute (API) that explains why we both import and export oil. Here's a snippet:

"Crude oil is not a homogenous product. The U.S. continues to import and export crude oil because the viscosity of oil (measured by its API gravity) being light or heavy and its sulfur content being low (sweet) or high (sour) largely determine the processes needed to refine it into fuel and other products. In general, refineries match their processing capabilities with types of crude oils from around the world that enable them to:

  • Make the most high-value motor fuels and other petroleum products in a cost-effective manner; and,
  • Serve niche product markets for chemicals, petrochemical feedstocks, lubricants, waxes and materials for roads and roofs."
Jim
 
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