I am surprised(and nothing related to trawlers)

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The world needs a Churchill right now, but the closest we've got so far is Zelensky and he's too busy fighting for his country's survival.
 
Peter B said:
...What he does not appear to grasp is that those he wants to unite, don't want to be, so he runs a high risk of leaving a legacy he did not intend to leave. That of being mentioned in the same breath as Hitler. Not what he envisaged at all. If he realises this - he might just back off..?
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Replacing the italicized underlined words with "accept" may better reflect the Putin approach. Resort to nukes is more likely than Russia slinking away, tail between legs,defeated. Hope I`m wrong.
Update edit: 2 Russian oligarchs have called for an end to the war. Dare we hope cracks are emerging?
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/business/oligarchs-russia-ukraine-fridman-deripaska/index.html
 
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Not sure of the veracity of this latest, but it has just popped up in Aussie media that the puppet president of Belarus has slipped up and divulged a secret, that the intent is to also annex Moldova as well. This would fit with the desire he clearly has to try and reassemble the old Soviet. This may just be rumour, but would be no real surprise if true.

From our local Queensland Courier Mail just now...
PLANS TO INVADE MOLDOVA LEAKED
The President of Belarus appears to have accidentally revealed top-secret plans to invade a new country.

Alexander Lukashenko – a close ally of Vladimir Putin — fronted security officials in a live TV broadcast while positioned in front of a battle map that seemingly indicates a planned Russian operation into Moldova.

The map included Russian lines of attack into Ukraine – some of which have already come to pass – and also outlined attacks which have not yet occurred.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news...&type=free_text_block&position=1&overallPos=9
 
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Max1 said:
I come here for trawlers.
We don't need politics argued here.
I see so many friendships and forums ruined because of political fighting on forums.
We don't need it here. I suggest those that want to argue about world politics, go join a forum where that is welcomed. Like twitter! :banghead:
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Hi,

yes this brutal war affects us all trawlers, whether you like it or not.

The price of oil will affect your boating and more broadly rising inflation.

The entire world economy is going to get mixed up and it will also affect more of us in many ways, so politics and Trawler will merge in the coming years only in a negative and bad scenario the whole world will be polluted by radiation and destruction on all continents.

We have 1340 kilometers of common border with Russia here, we have experience when Russia attacked Finland in the same way on November 30,11.1939 without warning. with great man and equipment superiority.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

You are right in that politics should not be discussed here, because it is pointless to speculate.

Your US is impossible to try to understand the logic of the Russians, NATO does not scare Putin and it seems that he wants his name in history.

Finland received a direct threat with the same idea as Ukraine, we have been part of Russia's history and if his intention is to get the old territories back, then the future is not bright here either.

Hopefully we can get the boats of the 2022 season in the Baltic Sea that it has not turned into a war field with sea mines.

NBs
 
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North Baltic sea said:
Hi,

yes this brutal war affects us all trawlers, whether you like it or not.

The price of oil will affect your boating and more broadly rising inflation.


You are right in that politics should not be discussed here, because it is pointless to speculate.

Your US is impossible to try to understand the logic of the Russians, NATO does not scare Putin and it seems that he wants his name in history.

Finland received a direct threat with the same idea as Ukraine, we have been part of Russia's history and if his intention is to get the old territories back, then the future is not bright here either.

Hopefully we can get the boats of the 2022 season in the Baltic Sea that it has not turned into a war field with sea mines.

NBs
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With all due respect, Baltic, there is a difference between politics, and major world events which are actual, and factual, and a threat to us all. That is why, for now, we are letting this thread run. Because most are being very responsible in the tone of their posts, and keeping it largely factual, rather than philosophical, which is typical of political posts. :)
 
La Mer said:
Since last weekend Putin is not in Kremlin of Moscow anymore


As the Russian safety procedures require in nuclear scenario he has been evacuated to the presidential underground operations and communications center , a secure bunker-shelter located in Altai republic in western Siberia ; Not a good news for peace
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Hi,

this bunker is more, it is a nuclear-resistant small "city" with its services. According to information, he and his friends, as well as key individuals, moved to safety from any attack. This person does not shy away from any means.

NBs
 
kthoennes said:
I agree. Unless Putin or Russia cries uncle and goes home -- and I see no sign of that -- at some point we (that is, the "West") will have to do more. Cutting up their credit cards and barring them from the World Cup becomes laughable when you're bombing apartment buildings and destroying a civilian population, as if you're on some Roman conquest. The "Greatest Generation" didn't allow this kind of thing, and at some point we, their descendants, can't either. There is no nice, clean, antiseptic, risk-free, remote solution to barbarity.
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Not so laughable.
The goal behind sanctions is to get the people feel it so to wake up.
Julius Caesar said give people games and wine and they are happy.

Now cut games, wine etc and maybe (maybe) people will get mad enough or fedup enough to kick poutine out.
Revolution always comes from the inside and because people get fedup of seeing the king wearing gold while they barely have anything to eat.

L
 
What's needed at this point is a face-saving exit for Putin. It's all about egos and dick size at this point. But I can't image what that exit would be. So getting him kicked out from inside of Russia seems a plausible alternative if enough pressure can be placed on financial interests, and that's what's being done. Otherwise he needs to be kicked out from outside Russia and that will likely be a very violent and prolonged effort.


Modern warfare is economic, not violent. Putin just never got the memo.
 
Oh, well that's an encouraging relief, a UN resolution. I'm sure that's make Valdimir tremble in his bunker and order a withdrawal. That'll make the Ukrainians feel better as the rockets rain down on their apartment buildings.

Unfortunately I think TwistedTree is wrong, modern warfare is still violent and deadly and dangerous - just more efficiently violent. There's no clean, antiseptic, risk free response to barbarity, and I can't think of a single nation in the modern age bent on military conquest whose course was changed through sanctions or external economic or political pressure. If that were possible or effective, North Koreans wouldn't be eating grass and starving to death since what, about 1954?
 
kthoennes said:
Oh, well that's an encouraging relief, a UN resolution. I'm sure that's make Valdimir tremble in his bunker and order a withdrawal. That'll make the Ukrainians feel better as the rockets rain down on their apartment buildings.
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Thank you for your extremely helpful insight into my post! :rolleyes:

Jim
 
Apparently the city of Kherson along the Black Sea has fallen to the Russians.
 
kthoennes said:
Oh, well that's an encouraging relief, a UN resolution. I'm sure that's make Valdimir tremble in his bunker and order a withdrawal. That'll make the Ukrainians feel better as the rockets rain down on their apartment buildings.

Unfortunately I think TwistedTree is wrong, modern warfare is still violent and deadly and dangerous - just more efficiently violent. There's no clean, antiseptic, risk free response to barbarity, and I can't think of a single nation in the modern age bent on military conquest whose course was changed through sanctions or external economic or political pressure. If that were possible or effective, North Koreans wouldn't be eating grass and starving to death since what, about 1954?
Click to expand...



I should have said that in a civilized society, warfare is economic, not violent. I agree there is still a lot of uncivilized society, but I had hoped Eastern Europe was past that. Clearly not.

One way or another this can’t be allowed. I hope economic actions can have the desired effect, and hope American and other lives can be spared entanglement in this barbaric action from Russia.
 
Greetings,
The Chinese have been "invading" countries for decades and quite successfully I might add. They're in it for the long haul. Might take 25 or 75 years but eventually they'll be in control.

"We're your friends. Let us build you new highways and improve your infrastructure. Oh, and by the way....You owe us now!"


Groucho once asked a young lady..."Would you go to bed with me for $25?" She replied "Certainly not. What do you think I am?" Groucho replied "I know what you are I just want to know your price"
 
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We need to remind ourselves the Russian forces bombing rocketing and shelling Ukraine and killing its citizens are Putin`s "peace keepers". Goodness, that feels better!
 
RT Firefly said:
Groucho once asked a young lady..."Would you go to bed with me for $25?" She replied "Certainly not. What do you think I am?" Groucho replied "I know what you are I just want to know your price"
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Rufus!!!!
You blew the set-up. He asks if she would do it for a thousand (1936 dollars, adjust for inflation) and she agrees...

P.S. Do you know the secret of comedy?
 
Apparently our friends decided to bomb nuclear plant in Enerhodar.
Just hope there will not be another tchernobil, one has been enough.

L
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
The Chinese have been "invading" countries for decades and quite successfully I might add. They're in it for the long haul. Might take 25 or 75 years but eventually they'll be in control.

"We're your friends. Let us build you new highways and improve your infrastructure. Oh, and by the way....You owe us now!"


Groucho once asked a young lady..."Would you go to bed with me for $25?" She replied "Certainly not. What do you think I am?" Groucho replied "I know what you are I just want to know your price"
Click to expand...


One of the best TV lines I have heard was from Madam Secretary, where Tea Leone is the secretary of state and single-handedly solves all world crises. From the Chinese ambassador to Madam Secretary, "we won't invade, we will simply foreclose".
 
BruceK said:
We need to remind ourselves the Russian forces bombing rocketing and shelling Ukraine and killing its citizens are Putin`s "peace keepers". Goodness, that feels better!
Click to expand...




I know. It's hard to look back as say, "wait a minute, how is this different?".


It's at times hard to see, especially from an anti-war person such as myself, but I think the difference is that nobody in Ukraine was "out to get" the Russians. At least not that I'm aware. It's a bit different when someone has a bullseye on your back. Now I don't mean that to justify everything the US did, as I think there were many very bad mis-steps, but I do think it's different. Ukraine's attempt/desire to join NATO is cited as the offense committed by Ukraine towards Russia. But really? When has NATO been offensive as opposed it defensive? Is a NATO invasion of Russia really a concern? No. It's just an excuse.
 
Lou_tribal said:
Apparently our friends decided to bomb nuclear plant in Enerhodar.
Just hope there will not be another Chernobyl, one has been enough.

L
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EDIT: I wrote this before reading that the fire is outside the perimeter of the plant and the reactors are being safely shut down. If true, the basis for my response below does not exist. Perhaps things will become clearer with time.
Current ABC News Item(not US ABC)FYI: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03...clear-power-plant-fire-what-we-know/100881822

Does this reprehensible act amount to a first use of nuclear warfare?
Reports say the plant is on fire and firefighters cannot fight it as they are being shot at. And that the plant is not operating but stores radio active nuclear material.
The attackers will know that, and the attack can release the material. If it does, it is an intentional act. One aspect of a nuclear attack is the spread of radiation. Highly arguable it is a nuclear attack.
If so what can, what should, happen in response. As the kids in the back of the car clamor: "Are we there yet"? Or is Ukraine left to fight on its own?
 
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The main thing that should mean the Russians are careful enough to not compromise a nuclear plant is self-interest. If it was to release a lot of radiation, who is right on the border, and going to be one of the first countries to cop the fallout..?
 
This morning its reported Ukraine was firing RPG's from the plant, on the Russians, and Russians returned fire. Its on tape. Narratives are being spun, and which one is right?
 
By the way, yesterday the US approved $18bn in IMF aid to be given to Russia.

Some Reps erupted over this but you may not see it in MSM news.
 
FWT said:
Thanks for that. I had not seen the administration response.

Interesting response. Yeah we did it (could not deny) but we only helped Russia a little bit.
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I think the point is these are IMF dollars, not US, and they were allocated to all IMF members last year to help countries fight Covid, which is in everyone’s interest. They cannot be withdrawn by Russia without the approval of another IMF member country and then they would receive them in the form of a loan from the approving country. (Enter China, most likely.) To imply that we are “helping” Russia in the face of the most crippling sanctions in modern history is grossly misleading, but—as with anything that can be twisted politically—there are any number of internet trolls pushing this garbage. Try to avoid them.
 
Good advice and I’d recommend it back. Everyone needs to be alert to narrative pumping. Watch what they do, not what they say.

So it’s back to the question of what deal might Putin take to end it?
 
FWT said:
Good advice and I’d recommend it back. Everyone needs to be alert to narrative pumping. Watch what they do, not what they say.

So it’s back to the question of what deal might Putin take to end it?
Click to expand...

After working in or opposite the media for 40+ years, I have a pretty good idea which outlets I trust (sometimes with a grain of salt) and which I run screaming from. Same with governments—just requires more salt.

I hope Putin isn’t suicidal and that he’s just following the Russian playbook—push until you meet intractable resistance and then plot your next push. The most hopeful part of this is the (nearly) uniform condemnation of his aggression by the west, backed up by actions that necessarily require avoiding a shooting war between NATO and Russia.
 
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