I am surprised(and nothing related to trawlers)

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Peter B said:
He will know they won't be nukes Bruce - a rather important distinction, I would have thought.
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Your inference Putin would not react absent the West giving Ukraine nuclear arms was not right when posted, and proven not right by the Putin response.
More generally, it may be his nuclear threat is intended to soften up Ukraine before they meet. Good luck with that.
That Russia appears to have drugged a 15 year old girl competing in its team at the Winter Olympics tells us a lot.
 
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Kind of like 1939, I think all bets are off about reasonableness and rationality when a leader or a country chooses to exercise power like this. The world has been down this road before.
 
Soo-Valley said:
Lou, the Ukraine is not Iraq or Afghanistan. The Russians would never let the west take control of natural resources. It would be WW3, so everyone postures for the press with no intention of physical intervention. Sad. Maybe disgusting.
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I don’t think the West’s response has been sad, if that’s what you meant. Germany finally deciding to share in the defense of Europe, doubling their own national defense budget and sending a half-billion in lethal aid to Ukraine . . . the Swiss, for god’s sake, abandoning their historic neutrality . . . most of the western world and democracies everywhere banding together to push back against that son of a bitch in the Kremlin. Not intervening physically isn’t posturing—the sanctions are going to decimate the Russian economy and might possibly lead to the collapse of the Putin regime if the oligarchs decide enough is enough. I don’t want us to play nuclear chicken with a mad man, but aiding Ukraine in every other way is both morally and geopolitically exactly the right decision.
 
Never thought the reference to the west would be misunderstood as Europe.
Canada and the USA are the west in my reference.
Perhaps 1st world countries is what you were thinking of.
 
Soo-Valley said:
Never thought the reference to the west would be misunderstood as Europe.
Canada and the USA are the west in my reference.
Perhaps 1st world countries is what you were thinking of.
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No, I meant the West, as in the Western world, to include Western Europe, where the term “Western world” actually has its origins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

The Western world, also known as the West, refers to various regions, nations and states, depending on the context, most often consisting of the majority of Europe,[a] Northern America, and Australasia.[3] The Western world is also known as the Occident (from the Latin word occidens, "sunset, West"), in contrast to the Orient (from the Latin word oriens, "rise, East") or Eastern world.

I do agree that much depends on the context.
 
OK western world, is the west. In Europe Germany, England and France come to mind as powers that can matter. I am happy to see them step up with aid. My earlier post comparing to Iraq cannot happen with boots on the ground support or it will be WWIII.

Hope Putin finds a way out of this sooner than later.
 
The only positive thing on this story, if it can be considered positive, is that it "reunified" europe on the concept to have its own defense. For years France has tried to convince of the need for a european army and never listened. Now all european countries understand the need for it. Not really positive in the sense that I would prefer to live in a world where this is not needed to live in peace.

L
 
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If anyone has questions please consult the Community Rules before posting anything controversial.

The future of the thread is in your hands - keep it within Community Rules and it stays open - continue to cross the lines and we will be forced to close this and other similar threads.

On Behalf Of The Site Team
 
Feeling helpless sitting here watching this disaster unfold. While it’s encouraging to see the whole world applying sanctions and canceling everything Russian, it doesn’t stop the tanks. The people on the ground need help now.
Hoping for a miracle of some sort.
 
Bacchus said:
This thread has crossed the line several times requiring removal of posts and user warnings and account notes.
If anyone has questions please consult the Community Rules before posting anything controversial.

The future of the thread is in your hands - keep it within Community Rules and it stays open - continue to cross the lines and we will be forced to close this and other similar threads.

On Behalf Of The Site Team
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Not my intend to comment on your decision but what was the line crossed, I may not have seen all posts and the one I saw were correct so the question.
You can answer in PM if needed.

L
 
Exactly! I didn’t see anyone going off the rails and talking politically. What gives?
 
cardude01 said:
Exactly! I didn’t see anyone going off the rails and talking politically. What gives?
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May have been dealt with fast enough to be deleted and not auto circulated.

I share Blues feelings. At some point something so awful may happen that Ukraine supporters send military support instead of ammo and equipment etc. Things will be very nasty,both before and after, if that happens.
Here`s a simplified (?simplistic)brief "nutshell" analysis of the invasion so far:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03...as-advance-on-kyiv-ukraine-stalling/100869776
 
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Well now this is boat related:

https://www.reuters.com/business/maersk-considers-suspending-all-shipments-russia-2022-02-28/

Talk about supply chain disruption for the Russians. Assuming they conquer Ukraine in a few more days, I wonder what the longer game might be. I keep thinking Hitler invaded Poland and then France in what - 39 and 40 if I remember, but America didn't actually fire a shot until almost two years later (lend/lease aside, while we let Britain take a beating), not until the "day that will live in infamy..." Might just be the faster news cycle but I think everything might move much faster this time, however it goes.
 
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Greetings,
Mr. k. I'm sure you're familiar with "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana-1905)." I'm thinking the multiple nations that were involved in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.


The Ukraine will never be "conquered". As I mentioned in my post (#26) there's something else going on. Vlad isn't that stupid unless he and his oligarch pals are suffering from some sort of insanity.


Perhaps I'm wrong and they ARE all wackos in which case we're all screwed. I hope not....
 
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Since last weekend Putin is not in Kremlin of Moscow anymore


As the Russian safety procedures require in nuclear scenario he has been evacuated to the presidential underground operations and communications center , a secure bunker-shelter located in Altai republic in western Siberia ; Not a good news for peace
 
La Mer said:
Since last weekend Putin is not in Kremlin of Moscow anymore





As the Russian safety procedures require in nuclear scenario he has been evacuated to the presidential underground operations and communications center , a secure bunker-shelter located in Altai republic in western Siberia ; Not a good news for peace
Click to expand...


Has this been confirmed by other news sources? I read a report that Putin had gone to his bunker from some Russian professor who is alleged to be a bit of a conspiracy nut, but have not seen anything else.

Have no idea if anything in this story is true. It appears news.com au is owned by Rupert Murdoch so who knows?

https://www.news.com.au/world/europ...r/news-story/2c69b05e80331b3504f7ed726be75494
 
I don't get this. I understand the concern about not having (what Putin sees as) a threat on your country's border, like Kennedy and the missile crisis in Cuba -- but in modern warfare distance doesn't matter all that much. I don't get how he thinks it's tactically justified and worth the consequences to rock the world to eliminate a relatively small potential threat. Even if he turns Ukraine into a puppet, then he'll have Poland -- a NATO country -- on his new border. He's just exchanging one threat for another. Unless this is just restoration of the Soviet empire in his mind. Or both. I don't get it.
 
kthoennes said:
I keep thinking Hitler invaded Poland and then France in....................
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There it is!!!!!! It took 49 posts over three days to invoke Godwin's Law. Not exactly a record, but it's got to be in the top 10.

Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1.[2][3] In less mathematical terms, the longer the discussion, the more likely a Nazi comparison becomes, and with long enough discussions, it is a certainty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwi...ort for Godwin's,or Adolf Hitler approaches 1.

:oops:
 
cardude01 said:
Has this been confirmed by other news sources? I read a report that Putin had gone to his bunker from some Russian professor who is alleged to be a bit of a conspiracy nut, but have not seen anything else.

Have no idea if anything in this story is true. It appears news.com au is owned by Rupert Murdoch so who knows?

https://www.news.com.au/world/europ...r/news-story/2c69b05e80331b3504f7ed726be75494
Click to expand...


My source is reliable , doesn’t come from medias , not from the internet etc…
 
@Shrew, what was your purpose in bringing up Godwin?
Godwin's law itself can be applied mistakenly or abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, when fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparison made by the argument is appropriate.[12] Mike Godwin himself has also criticized the overapplication of Godwin's law, claiming it does not articulate a fallacy; but rather is intended to reduce the frequency of inappropriate and hyperbolic comparisons
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Shrew said:
Because it happened so quickly.
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It's not that good of an example of Godwin's Law since it's aggression over
some of the same ground that Hitler invaded, just in the opposite direction.

The comparison is therefore inevitable. :facepalm:
 
KnotYet said:
It's not that good of an example of Godwin's Law since it's aggression over
some of the same ground that Hitler invaded, just in the opposite direction.

The comparison is therefore inevitable. :facepalm:
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Especially that the talk was the same... When Hitler decided to annex Austria it was because it was a german country, than for Poland it was to protect the poor germans who were mistreated. Exact same justification for what is happening now. There is always a good reason to do the bad.

L
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. k. I'm sure you're familiar with "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana-1905)." I'm thinking the multiple nations that were involved in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.


The Ukraine will never be "conquered". As I mentioned in my post (#26) there's something else going on. Vlad isn't that stupid unless he and his oligarch pals are suffering from some sort of insanity.


Perhaps I'm wrong and they ARE all wackos in which case we're all screwed. I hope not....
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Why does it need the oligarchs as well as Putin to be "suffering some sort of insanity"?

I appreciate you believe there is a plan not yet revealed, but suspect you might say that on the basis "there must be" because the alternative possible reasons are so unpalatable.
My guess, for that is all it can be: what is happening is the result of disordered agressive thinking and we are all in trouble. Ukraine is being inadequately assisted by the West,and Putin has said any outside interference will have awful consequences. It has not, as yet, but keep watching.
Alternatively, one or more Western countries will eventually be unable to stomach the rape of Ukraine, and will send aircraft and boots onto the ground. That long parade of slow moving armored vehicles approaching Kyiv looks very inviting.
One way or another, I think we are in real trouble. It could blow up at any moment. There is no way Russia will pull back and I don`t see Ukraine surrendering. A troubled "occupation" is possible but I suspect something nasty will happen first.
 
BruceK said:
...Alternatively, one or more Western countries will eventually be unable to stomach the rape of Ukraine, and will send aircraft and boots onto the ground. That long parade of slow moving armored vehicles approaching Kyiv looks very inviting. ...One way or another, I think we are in real trouble.
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I agree. Unless Putin or Russia cries uncle and goes home -- and I see no sign of that -- at some point we (that is, the "West") will have to do more. Cutting up their credit cards and barring them from the World Cup becomes laughable when you're bombing apartment buildings and destroying a civilian population, as if you're on some Roman conquest. The "Greatest Generation" didn't allow this kind of thing, and at some point we, their descendants, can't either. There is no nice, clean, antiseptic, risk-free, remote solution to barbarity.
 
kthoennes said:
.... Unless this is just restoration of the Soviet empire in his mind. Or both. I don't get it.
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The general feeling is that that is what is really motivating him. He has this dream of being the one to re-unite the previous Soviet empire, having made no secret of the fact that he has always felt that the breaking up of the USSR was a tragedy for Russia. So, he wants to turn back the clock, at least in part, and he wants this to be what he is remembered for.

What he does not appear to grasp is that those he wants to unite, don't want to be, so he runs a high risk of leaving a legacy he did not intend to leave. That of being mentioned in the same breath as Hitler. Not what he envisaged at all. If he realises this - he might just back off..?
 
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