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Old 02-25-2022, 09:18 PM   #1
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I am surprised(and nothing related to trawlers)

I am surprised to see nothing regarding what happening in Europe.
Maybe this is infringing rules, I do not know (excuse my ignorance).
Usually any hot topic is triggering debate so my surprise.

L
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Old 02-25-2022, 09:58 PM   #2
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Because it will inevitably end in politics - get heated - then get closed, Lou. Sorry, but that's even more certain than that God made little apples...
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Old 02-25-2022, 10:07 PM   #3
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Lou, the Ukraine is not Iraq or Afghanistan. The Russians would never let the west take control of natural resources. It would be WW3, so everyone postures for the press with no intention of physical intervention. Sad. Maybe disgusting.
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Old 02-25-2022, 10:32 PM   #4
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Because it will inevitably end in politics - get heated - then get closed, Lou. Sorry, but that's even more certain than that God made little apples...
So close it.

It`s on everyone`s lips, minds, even consciences.

The world is a slip up away from WW3.


But we can`t talk about it.


So close it.
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Old 02-26-2022, 07:36 AM   #5
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For me, it's pretty simple. I come here to read about trawlers, not politics. I get more than enough politics elsewhere. So, if I'm in this forum, and happen upon a discussion of things like what's going on between Russia and Ukraine, I move very quickly to the next thread.


(Meaning, I won't be coming back to this one again!)
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Old 02-26-2022, 09:09 AM   #6
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Still will have impact on trawlering. Domino effect. Russia supplies over half of fuel (gas, petrol diesel etc) to Europe so our prices and maybe even availability will be impacted. Poland has become a significant producer of recreational boats. They maybe effected. As they as well as the Baltic states maybe next target. Union of Russia and mainland China may decrease their mutual dependence on the west for food for China (China get >1/2 their wheat from Russia) and tech(Russia flipping to China). Our response may decrease availability and increase cost for batteries, electronics and such.
Reality is with the joining of Russia and China and implications for Taiwan regardless of your politics current events will impact your boating. To my mind politics are irrelevant and should stop at the border. Personally believe given the majority of Russian oligarchs money is held overseas the most effective sanction would be to freeze all those funds. Then they would rain Putin in.
Long term decreasing our dependence on China for rare earths, batteries and eventually consumer goods needs to be a national priority. Europe needs to source energy from elsewhere until non carbon becomes viable. For years now I have avoided buying Chinese. If you want to support the Ukrainians please do the same. As long as China will bail out Russia from the impact of western sanctions Putin will do what he will.
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Old 02-26-2022, 05:35 PM   #7
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Well, this thread may be primarily about a world political situation and less about trawlers, but it seems highly unlikely to me it's going to get heated or argumentative. Heck, I read a news story yesterday that 1,700 Russian protestors have been arrested already inside Russia itself.

During the Canadian trucker protests we flew a Canada flag on the house. Now I have to swap out the Maple Leaf for a flag of Ukraine. So I hop onto eBay to buy a Ukraine flag, but in every listing that shows country of origin at all, every single one was made in China. Isn't that ironic. Of course I'll probably need a flag of Taiwan next, wonder if China makes those too. Of all the national flags on earth though, that's maybe the one flag they don't make in the PRC. Then our boat is named Xanadu, which is now around Shangdu, Inner Mongolia -- which was also subjugated by China after WWII. There is no flag of Xanadu of course and I can't find one for Shengdu or the state or province (called a "banner") it's in, so the closest I can find is the flag of Inner Mongolia. I finally found a burgee-size and 2 x 3 for the stern, to be flown on our marina's dress-the-boats days, made by a company in France.

One more observation and then I'll shut up. One of my grandfathers come over from Germany in 1927 during Hitler's gradual rise to power, because his family decided they wanted at least one son to have a shot at survival. "We've given enough sons to the Kaiser." My other grandfather came over from a tiny village, now in the southeast of Poland near the Ukraine border, called Krempna, in what was then part of Galacia. "The Tsar has killed enough of the family." My grandfather got out in 1906, during one of the Polish revolutions that was ultimately crushed by the Russians. Somehow his family got him from Poland to Hamburg on the ship Pretoria, where he lied about his age and falsified his papers because he was only 14 and you had to be 16 to emigrate alone according to U.S. law at the time. You were also supposed to have $50 in your pocket but he only had $35, but they let him in anyway for some reason. He never saw or heard from his family again. All the letters and packages he sent for the rest of his life were never answered, but he kept sending them anyway. My grandmother kept telling him that he was wasting his time and money, they were all dead, but he sent the letters and packages anyway. From family stories (which may or may not be true), eventually Stalin completely exterminated his family and the village. Some history references say that Krempna was "depopulated" after WWII. What a nice clinical word, "depopulated." He died before the Iron Curtain fell so he was never able to go back to see for himself.

And here we are again, 116 years later and nothing has changed.
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Old 02-26-2022, 05:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
For me, it's pretty simple. I come here to read about trawlers, not politics. I get more than enough politics elsewhere. So, if I'm in this forum, and happen upon a discussion of things like what's going on between Russia and Ukraine, I move very quickly to the next thread.


(Meaning, I won't be coming back to this one again!)
Which is why I said: "So close it".
But it`s still open,so we can post. Sanctions have not worked, but stand as an excuse for military retaliation. Impotence on the world stage is as unattractive as the smashing of Ukraine. Ukraine needs military help. Sooner or later the West has to take a stand, before it`s reputation is smashed too.
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Old 02-26-2022, 09:15 PM   #9
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Thankfully cooler heads are prevailing at present, because the sanctions and blocking of the iNet banking system will hurt Putin's cause a lot, and it might allow actual armed intervention on behalf of Ukraine to be kept in reserve.

Hopefully never needed. Because we are dealing with a megalomaniac, and sociopath - ? psychopath - who has visions of restoring the glory of the Soviet Union - Russian Empire anyway. If the west starts firing missiles, he is capable of saying, "bugger it, may as well be hung as a sheep as a lamb, and use that as an excuse to start hitting the big red buttons..!
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Old 02-26-2022, 11:14 PM   #10
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World pandemic followed by egomaniac behavior, for those who are interested in history this is a reminder of some dark ages.
Apparently we did not evolved much in 100 years.


L
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Old 02-26-2022, 11:23 PM   #11
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... If the west starts firing missiles, he is capable of saying, "bugger it, may as well be hung as a sheep as a lamb, and use that as an excuse to start hitting the big red buttons..!
What reaction do you anticipate if, as is happening, the West arms Ukraine with missiles which Ukraine can then fire at Russian forces? Same as if the West fires them? We will find out,soon enough.
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Old 02-27-2022, 12:09 AM   #12
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He will know they won't be nukes Bruce - a rather important distinction, I would have thought.
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Old 02-27-2022, 09:54 AM   #13
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I see Putin just put Russia’s nukes on “alert”, whatever that means.

Is he already hitting the panic button, or is this a ploy see if the west/NATO will be bluffed into backing off?

Have heard reports that Putin seems “off” recently and acting more erratically. Kind of worrying.
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Old 02-27-2022, 11:07 AM   #14
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I don't see anything changing. NATO will continue to send arms into Ukraine for the Ukrainians to defend themselves, they won't send in troops. Russian aggression against any NATO country, including the newer Baltic State members, would invoke Article 5, drawing all of NATO into a conflict.

I'm sure that all the NATO countries are also on alert. Russia isn't the only country with Nuclear Weapons (NATO countries include U.S., U.K, and France). Using them in Ukraine would defeat the purpose of invading Ukraine. We (including Russia) would all lose it they are used against NATO.

I think Putin miscalculated on Ukraine. I think he foresaw a quick victory and the Ukrainians laying down there arms. He simply does not seem to grasp that these folks enjoy their freedoms and this is what has moved the country towards the West. Russia will no doubt succeed in their invasion, but they will be seen as 'occupiers' by most of the Ukrainian people.

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Old 02-27-2022, 11:55 AM   #15
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World Politics

I'm glad I found this thread since I was thinking of starting a post on the war in Ukraine but did not want to turn this great forum into a platform for political views. Opinions and views are personal, and I don't see an issue talking about war since it impacts all of us boaters one way or another.

I'm saddened to see what is occurring in Ukraine and pray for a quick resolution in favor of the people who are fighting for their independence. I wish we (USA) could do more to assist them and show our support. I also give President Biden lots of credit on how he handled this situation.

When I think what we as boaters and citizens can do to show our support we can post here and express our support, stop purchasing products made in Russia and end all collaboration with those companies on new opportunities.

This also goes for China who in my opinion is the next country we need to worry about. How long until they invade Tawain and where does that lead the USA? Over the past 40 years we have assisted China in becoming the giant it is today and it needs to stop. Even the aerospace company I work for started manufacturing in China so we could compete on new programs. At what point do we turn around and give up additional sales to keep some work in the USA? If that is not an option (world economy) then place those jobs in Mexico where we sent thousands of other jobs.

Maybe we need to send boat companies who manufacture their boats in China that it's time for a change? Are we willing to pay more for a new boat if it's built in Canada, Mexico or Turkey? If I was in the market today for a new trawler, I would not buy one built in China even it meant I could only afford a smaller boat. I don't expect others to follow me on this but I'm serious and made this decision when we built our last boat (16' Sailboat). I wanted to keep the jobs in the USA and not China or even Europe.

Interesting to see where this thread leads....

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Old 02-27-2022, 12:26 PM   #16
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Its inevitable there is a lot of narrative spinning on all sides. Whatever is really happening isn't likely to wind up in the press, or at least shouldn't.

What Putin said he wanted out of this (in a speech last week) was for Ukraine to be a neutral country, disarmed. Think about it. From his perspective this is akin to how we felt about Cuba. Apparently rockets on the border are 3 minutes from Moscow. From his stated perspective, the west precipitated this with the drive to pull Ukraine into NATO, etc. and then we express shock this is the result.

So his stated interest in talks with Ukraine are offered terms to withdraw so long as neutrality and disarming is accepted.

That's his narrative. We have our own.
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Old 02-27-2022, 12:34 PM   #17
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I come here for trawlers.
We don't need politics argued here.
I see so many friendships and forums ruined because of political fighting on forums.
We don't need it here. I suggest those that want to argue about world politics, go join a forum where that is welcomed. Like twitter!
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Old 02-27-2022, 12:43 PM   #18
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Except that even Ukraine denied wanted to be part of NATO, they wanted to be part of european union what was denied to them but they never wanted to be part of NATO.
Most of all the talks are about justifying acts to people eyes, being true or not.
When I see a commander in chief like Putin calling a neighbor country leaders as being on drugs or nazis I am questioning the mental health of such a person, especially when his own country paid heavy price fighting nazis. What a way to show respect for those who felt.
About nuclear, what he did was to activate his deterrent forces, meant to be dissuasive to potential attacker, however far less dissuasive when the man in front has the same. I do not see any mentally healthy person using it as it would mean mutual annihilation. Even a country like France who has far less nuke than russia would still have enough to wipe out a country (about 300 warheads).
Question that needs to be asked is, in regards to recent events and talks, does he still hold his mental health? And if not would there be one to internally stop any excessive acts or is it collective hysteria?

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Old 02-27-2022, 12:45 PM   #19
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I come here for trawlers.
We don't need politics argued here.
I see so many friendships and forums ruined because of political fighting on forums.
We don't need it here. I suggest those that want to argue about world politics, go join a forum where that is welcomed. Like twitter!
Don't mind my comment but nothing nor nobody force you to read the thread, but the fact you post this means you read it.

L
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Old 02-27-2022, 01:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I come here for trawlers.
We don't need politics argued here.
I see so many friendships and forums ruined because of political fighting on forums.
We don't need it here. I suggest those that want to argue about world politics, go join a forum where that is welcomed. Like twitter!

LOL, it is funny because you came to a specific thread, in a non-boating sub-forum, to read and post about this thread.

Respectfully, if you don't like the thread you don't have to read it. I doubt if any of us read every single thread that get posted.

For those that choose to participate in the thread, we are all adults and can have a civil, non-political, and respectful discussion, on the topic.

Jim
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