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Old 12-16-2019, 11:02 PM   #1
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Cost effective ways to heat a shop

I have a 2 car 25x35 garage that I play in during the winters. As I get a little older I spend less time on my hobbies that I would like to due to the cold. I know the Seattle Wa. area is nothing compared to the East/mid West winters. But when its 68 in the house and 35 in the garage...you know where I am going to end up..

I would also like to be able to continue varnishing and have it dry before May.

Right now I have one 110 oil heater and 2 small 110 regular old heaters.
I am looking for a cost effective way to heat the garage to 65-70 for a few months every year. The garage walls are all 2x6 and insulated as well as the attic. Last month I used the electric heat and had it at 65 all month, my power bill went up 400 watts or about $50.00. And figure that will go up as it gets colder using only the plug in heaters.

I have natural gas at the house and could run it to the garage and use a ceiling mount unit. I could also do a small pellet stove or even a wood stove.
I have also seen the little Mr. Heater ductless heaters that cost about 250.00 I am a little afraid I might blow my garage up with one of them when I am varnishing or painting.

I don't want to drop a ton of cash for 4-5 months of heat or about $250.00 a year in extra power. And I don't really want to give up garage space to a big wood stove or pellet stove.
Are there other heaters out there that I am not aware of? Any other ideas?
My garage and house are connected, but I don't leave the door open due to fumes from the garage, I also have a natural gas ducted unit in the house, but its not on often due to me having a fireplace that's always going.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:18 PM   #2
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Greetings,
Mr. RR. How about running an air duct or two into the garage from your home heating system, assuming you have one, of course?
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:48 PM   #3
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Greetings,
Mr. RR. How about running an air duct or two into the garage from your home heating system, assuming you have one, of course?
I could do that, but I don't have the home forced air heater on very often as I most often have a fire going in the home. (EPA Cert for 2020 most often burn seasoned fire wood, or pine energy logs if I am lazy one summer).
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Old 12-17-2019, 04:06 AM   #4
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I've got a barn/shop that I keep heated at a reduced temp (~55) all the time. Once you get working, I find that to be a very comfortable temp, and man is it awesome compared to freezing your bum off as I did for many, many years. And as you say, it's really nice to be able to work year round on projects like paints and finishes that require some civilized temp.


I ended up installing circulating hot water radiators with a propane fired "boiler", but that's largely because it's a big building - 48' x 60' and two stories. Initially I only heated half of it, but then extended the heat to the whole building once I got hooked. Like yours, it's modern construction and very well insulated, and I'm constantly amazed how little propane it uses over a very cold Vermont winter. I think maintaining a steady, but reduced temp is the key, so I would suggest leaving the heat on rather than heating up for a project, then turning it off again.


I would avoid anything with an exposed flame in the interior of the building, just for safety when using flammable products like paints, etc. Although it's propane, my boiler is a sealed combustion chamber with both intake and exhaust pipes outside.


Also, I would NOT bring the house heat over because it's forced hot air. You will need return air, and then you will circulate all the garage fumes through the house. That will not make you a popular family member.


You could install a more permanent electric heat system, like baseboards and a thermostat. That would probably be safer and heat better than a bunch of potable heaters. Portable heaters just strike me as a disaster waiting the happen, so I don't like using them for anything other than temporary heat.


Another option would be a direct vent gas wall heater. They don't take up a lot of space and could probably be sized well for the space. intake and exhaust are externally vented so no fumes or exposed flame inside. Some are just convection heat, and others have a blower fan. Which you use will probably depend on the size of the unit.
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Old 12-17-2019, 05:45 AM   #5
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I live in the frozen north and keep all of our garages heated. Especially at work where I have a couple of dozen ambulances that by law need to be kept at no less than 50 degrees despite going in and out of the garage all day long.

I had an energy audit done a few years ago and by far the most cost effective was those ceiling mounted heater units (except we have to use propane). If its helpful I can get the specifics from my contractor.

What is especially nice about all of them is how quickly they can warm up a space. We keep the garages at the house at 45 but if I want to work out there I turn it up to 60 and it warms up in a few minutes
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Old 12-17-2019, 05:57 AM   #6
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Lots of options, all have their pros and cons. In my shop I put a standard house split 2.5 ton heat pump/AC unit. Air handler is in overhead with just a single large outlet duct that vents downward then sideways. It creates a little circulation in the shop. The lack of ducts and the overhead handler mount saves space. It was a bit expensive, but worth it.

Our climate here is probably not much different from PNW, most winter nights around freezing, but can get into the 20's. I disabled the strip heaters as they would come on anytime I turned it on from cold. Heat pump most efficient when it is not as cold outside. No natgas here, and in the summer we really need the AC. You probably don't need AC.

I find my personal operating temp is 50-80F, but gripe at 50F. (My girl's personal operating temp is 72-75F!!). Usually set shop tstat at 65F and it takes a couple hours to go from like 45F to 65F. I leave it off unless working in there or curing something.

Look at the mini-splits. Or with natgas and no need for AC, a radiant tube heater in the overhead might do the trick. A couple of boatbuilders here use those in their shops, and without natgas they use propane. A LOT of propane, they gripe about the cost, but these are really big shops.

You are fortunate to have natgas. Opens lots of options.
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Old 12-17-2019, 06:29 AM   #7
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If nat gas cost compared to elec is anything like here in the NE I would be looking to use that.
Which type heat is your choice...direct vs radiant
If your paint varnish work is only a portion of your time why not get it up to op temp w gas and switch to elec while doing your work w flammables? If well insulated elec premium likely not large for shorter time.
If it is a large % of your work then you would need a closed combustion system or placing the combustion unit outside of the workspace and ducting / piping to your workspace. How about a hi efficiency water heater / boiler in the house w piping to a water to air X Chgr?
Is the attic sealed well enough to allow a combustion unit up there with outside venting for combustion and piping / ducting to work space below?
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Old 12-17-2019, 06:45 AM   #8
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I built a1,200 sqft. insulated garage for my business 15 years ago. Have two hanging propane heaters with forced air circulation. They do a great job. The work shop (300 sqft) is kept at 60 degrees and can be brought to 72 in about 30 minutes. Turn up the heat in the morning. Make coffee. 72 degrees by the time I finished breakfast. The rest of the building I kept at 50 to keep stuff from freezing and rusting. Bringing that part up to 72 if I had a big project to do, took about 4 hours because of all the steel equipment I had in the building. Probably burned 200 gallons of propane over an average Maryland winter. If Natural gas was available, it would be a lot less expensive. Because it warmed up so quickly, letting the temperature drop off every night was economical.

Because of the outside air temperatures in Maryland, I would still do it the same way. If I were in a milder climate I would go with Mitsubishi split heat pumps. You would loose the ability to bring the garage up quickly, but probably more cost effective and can use it for dehumidification also. While I consider the fire risk low with my hanging propane units, I wasn't working with liquids with flammable vapors.

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Old 12-17-2019, 07:44 AM   #9
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I have an overhead hung forced air heater in my 3 car garage with 11 foot ceilings. Came with the house from the PO. I don’t use it much, but it heats the garage handily. If you want inexpensive, build a waste oil heater and burn the endless supply of used motor oil out there.
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Old 12-17-2019, 07:59 AM   #10
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$250 / yr to heat a 2 car garage isn't too bad. I don't think you'll be able to beat that cost by much with any heat source especially when you factor in the cost to purchase, install and maintain the new heating system. You do have gas at the house. The hanging heaters would have it roasty - toasty in there in a few minutes.

My experience with the Mr. Heater was not good. It could get stuck on when left on hi for too long. I had to take it outdoors and tip it over trusting the tip over safety switch to shut it off. They are expensive to operate when run from the little propane cylinders.

When I work in a cold space like you're doing I see two heating requirements. My comfort and the heat needed to get coatings to dry and glues to set. My comfort can be addressed by aiming an electric parabolic heater at me. Drying and curing can be addressed by building a small visqueen tent over the work and putting a small electric heat source under the tent.

If it were completely up to me and money were no object, of course both are not the case, I'd have a heated floor. As I get older and the circulation in my extremities gets poor my feet will get cold and take hours to get warm again when I go back inside.
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:41 AM   #11
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Some good advice above, but lets look at the costs:

I suspect that a natural gas fired and vented wall heater will be you cheapest overall choice. Here is one from Lowes for about $600- https://www.lowes.com/pd/Ashley-Hear...ater/999924764. Propane but I also believe that they are available in natural gas.

Depending on electric power rates in your area, a mini split like Ski uses is very efficient but costs almost $1,000. At the outside temps in your area, these provide 2-3 times more heat per KW than electric oil immersion heaters. It should cut your electric costs in half or more.

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Old 12-17-2019, 09:23 AM   #12
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Since we (PNW) have lower electric that most I install wall mounted 220v electric heaters in our houses when owners want a heat source for the garage. They are a very cost effective way ( both in install and decent quick heat ) for casual garage use. A dedicated one zone mini split would cost less than half to operate but at substantially higher install cost and you need a spot for the outdoor unit to go.



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Old 12-17-2019, 09:47 AM   #13
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I have a garage about the same size. I heat it with a small Reznor NG fired ceiling heater. Takes about ten minutes to warm garage to comfortable working temps. Had a NG hot water heater in same space, making the NG runs pretty easy.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:12 AM   #14
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We have heated our shop/barn for a long while using a large pellet stove. It is a royal PITA and rather unreliable. We are in the process of switching to a Rinnai natural gas unit. These heat significantly more comfortably, had one in the last shop, and cost a lot less than pellets do to run.

In the garage I installed a Modine hydronic unit, as a zone off our homes hydronic boiler. It works pretty well, but is nowhere near as comfortable, or as silent, as a Rinnai..

We also heat our ski-place, the rental cabin, and the detached bunk-house with Rinnai units.

Not a single service call or break down with the Rinnai's in over 16 years of service. They are easy to install yourself and then you just call the gas fitter/gas company for the final gas line hook up. You can usually find a good used one on Craigslist etc.. Just be sure to buy a unit rated for natural gas, or propane if that is what you plan on, as Rinnai and Rinnai wholesalers frown on selling NAT to LPG or LPG to NAT conversion kits.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
$250 / yr to heat a 2 car garage isn't too bad. I don't think you'll be able to beat that cost by much with any heat source especially when you factor in the cost to purchase, install and maintain the new heating system. You do have gas at the house. The hanging heaters would have it roasty - toasty in there in a few minutes.

My experience with the Mr. Heater was not good. It could get stuck on when left on hi for too long. I had to take it outdoors and tip it over trusting the tip over safety switch to shut it off. They are expensive to operate when run from the little propane cylinders.

When I work in a cold space like you're doing I see two heating requirements. My comfort and the heat needed to get coatings to dry and glues to set. My comfort can be addressed by aiming an electric parabolic heater at me. Drying and curing can be addressed by building a small visqueen tent over the work and putting a small electric heat source under the tent.

If it were completely up to me and money were no object, of course both are not the case, I'd have a heated floor. As I get older and the circulation in my extremities gets poor my feet will get cold and take hours to get warm again when I go back inside.
When we built the place 11 years ago I put a lot of time and thought into heating the house. Natural Gas, air intake next to the wood fireplace so we can circulate the warm air thought-out the house, extra insulation in the attic and floors... But I did not think about the garage, heck I even have hot water outside to wash your car with! Heated floors in the garage would have been the way to go, and hook it into a hot water tank running of the NG. Electric cost in the PNW are not all that bad compared to other areas.

I called a local heating company, they are going to come out and price up a hanging natural gas unit that's ducted. I am sure I will freak out when I see the bill. But I don't plan on moving for 10-15 years so I will get my use out of it. Thank you for the tips, I did not know the hanging NG units were under 1500.00. That's about the same price for an ok wood/pellet stove and each need vents/chimney and what not after that. I like the idea of setting the temp and not worrying about it, or blowing anything up!
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by CMS View Post
We have heated our shop/barn for a long while using a large pellet stove. It is a royal PITA and rather unreliable. We are in the process of switching to a Rinnai natural gas unit. These heat significantly more comfortably, had one in the last shop, and cost a lot less than pellets do to run.

In the garage I installed a Modine hydronic unit, as a zone off our homes hydronic boiler. It works pretty well, but is nowhere near as comfortable, or as silent, as a Rinnai..

We also heat our ski-place, the rental cabin, and the detached bunk-house with Rinnai units.

Not a single service call or break down with the Rinnai's in over 16 years of service. They are easy to install yourself and then you just call the gas fitter/gas company for the final gas line hook up. You can usually find a good used one on Craigslist etc.. Just be sure to buy a unit rated for natural gas, or propane if that is what you plan on, as Rinnai and Rinnai wholesalers frown on selling NAT to LPG or LPG to NAT conversion kits.

Speaking of brands, whatever you do, don't get a Buderus/Bosch boiler. I had one and fought leaks for 10 years, including two rotted out heat exchangers until I finally ripped it out last winter when it failed during extended sub-zero temps. Total piece of crap.
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Old 12-17-2019, 06:23 PM   #17
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Ron. The heater I have is rated at 30000 btu fwiw. Dan
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:24 PM   #18
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Ron. The heater I have is rated at 30000 btu fwiw. Dan
Thank you !
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Old 12-18-2019, 05:22 AM   #19
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First step would be to insulate the heck out of the garage.


Since its sort of warm , a mini split is easy to install , some are pre-charged and easy on the electric bill.
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #20
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First step would be to insulate the heck out of the garage.


Since its sort of warm , a mini split is easy to install , some are pre-charged and easy on the electric bill.

First step is done, 2x6 walls all insulated just like the house, attic has spray in, just like the house! Garage door is also insulated.
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