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Old 02-11-2022, 10:15 PM   #21
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Greetings,
Fellow from WV was stopped by LEO. Officer asked: "You got any ID?" Driver responded " 'bout what?".
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Friend receiving a traffic ticket, officer marks the applicable offence box with an "X". Friend says: "No Officer, you sign it at the bottom". Ended badly.
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Old 02-12-2022, 07:12 PM   #22
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Has anyone actually discussed this with an LEO as to their position on this matter?


We’ll I’m not a spokesperson for every marine patrol officer in the country but I’ll speak for myself and my agency and my experience also working cooperatively with USCG as well as RCMP during special enforcement initiatives:

No ID for inspections. Yes ID for violations. If person refused to present ID we generally followed the law on such matters from the state we happened to be working in, or found a way around the problem.
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Old 02-12-2022, 07:38 PM   #23
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USCG has no jurisdiction about boating safety certificates.

Any usually accepted ID is probably good enough if all paperwork agrrees and checks out. I D may be more for warrants than vessel operation.
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Old 02-13-2022, 07:15 AM   #24
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I D may be more for warrants than vessel operation.
And there is where your Civil Rights begin. The United States of America is not a "show me your papers" Country. The Supreme Court Ruling of Terry V Ohio basically sets the Laws in all States that Law enforcement may only demand ID if they can articulate a crime for which they suspect you have committed, are about to commit, or are in the process of committing. Suspicious behavior is not a crime.

Just like " anything you say can and will be used against you" applies when arrested, you do not have to answer questions by Police. You have the same rights as a citizen or resident when not arrested as if you are arrested regarding questions. If there are warrants out for your arrest, you are not obliged to provide Identification that might result in your arrest.

Being a passenger on a boat is not a crime. In the States with Laws governing Boat operation, the operator may need to produce ID. If you are Fishing in a State that requires a license, and you are fishing, you need to produce a license.

I'm not exactly sure about being in international waters, but I doubt any State Law Enforcement has jurisdiction. Again, I don't know these Laws, but the USCG may have the right to ID in International waters just as the can search your vessel.

In my 50 years of boat operation I have been stopped a few times, and the USCG are by far the most professional. Here in Florida there are more than a dozen agencies that operate boats and may stop a boater for various reasons.

I am not a Lawyer, but living in a "Free" Country involves having rights, and that's a difficult and frustration fine line at times, but the price we pay for Freedom and worth it IMHO

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/392/1/

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Old 02-13-2022, 09:51 AM   #25
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There are exceptions. For example, those rights don’t apply at airports. That’s why TSA will abd does ask to see your identification at airports, for example.
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Old 02-13-2022, 01:55 PM   #26
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30 years boating all around puget sound and fishing se alaska i've never been boarded. what are the circumstances that instigated being boarded?
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Old 02-13-2022, 03:48 PM   #27
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For me a few times for "safety check" and a few to check for fishing licenses and to check fish and lobster counts/size. Not a big deal over 50 years, and I actually knew quite a few Marine Patrol as I was one of their vendors. Never any issues, I don't believe I was ever asked for ID.

In the FL Keys there are channels from the Ocean side to the Bay side that create a natural "choke point." A couple of those stops were just outside those channels coming from the Ocean to the Bay after a morning of dragging baits for mahi and stopping on the reef to maybe grab a few lobster. The Marine Patrol would sit just outside the channel and stop boats with rods and outriggers. They would also walk the boat ramps looking in coolers.

Those stops were in the CC fishing boat, not the Mainship, in 11 years of owning her never been stopped while operating her.




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30 years boating all around puget sound and fishing se alaska i've never been boarded. what are the circumstances that instigated being boarded?
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Old 02-13-2022, 03:55 PM   #28
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The Coast Guard may board any vessel subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, whether on the high seas, or on waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of U.S. laws. 14 U.S.C. § 89.
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:05 PM   #29
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I think the key thing that's on a driver's license and not on a passport is where you live.
And this is where the voice in my head immediately thinks, "Objection, relevance?" If I'm getting boarded by the USCG, let's just assume I'm on the water. Land address is rather irrelevant, up to the point they think they've got me on a violation, and even then, I'm guessing the boat registration has an address. I'd argue the boat's registration address is perfectly sufficient for any follow-up mail correspondence necessary.
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:07 PM   #30
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Depends on the state, but in some cases, yes. In some states, a DUI on a bicycle dings your driver's license too, which I think is a bit dumb (as a bicycle doesn't require a license at all). But I guess there's some logic. If someone can't follow the rules of one mode of transport, they're probably not any more responsible with other modes of transport.
If someone can't follow the rules of the English language to know when to use and not use an apostrophe, does that carry over to operating a vehicle or vessel? Be careful how far you go with this line of logic. (I'm in no way saying that you used an apostrophe incorrectly, just questioning how far it's reasonable to draw conclusions.)
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:10 PM   #31
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There are exceptions. For example, those rights don’t apply at airports. That’s why TSA will abd does ask to see your identification at airports, for example.
If the USCG should happen to board my boat while it's inside the perimeter of an airport, I'll keep this in mind.


I realize exceptions exist. I'm looking to keep it general here.
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:20 PM   #32
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The Coast Guard may board any vessel subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, whether on the high seas, or on waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of U.S. laws. 14 U.S.C. § 89.
Never questioned that in the least.


I'm just trying to determine if there's legal basis or prior precedent that says that an inquiry to see my ID necessitates that it be my driver's license. Or if they ask to see my drivers license, what happens if I instead offer my passport.


I'm of the opinion that if they're boarding my boat, some documentation is both necessary and expected. I'd like that sheet to reflect my name so that there's correlation to my claim that I was boarded, if I should ever need to do so. I'm not here to read every law journal and find out the bare minimum necessary to be legal, get wrapped up in reasonable articlable suspicion, etc. I merely don't wish it to be a license for something else...I'd rather it be as generic as possible. To me, a federal ID such as a passport seems most applicable to a federal agency doing the boarding. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.
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Old 02-13-2022, 07:32 PM   #33
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30 years boating all around puget sound and fishing se alaska i've never been boarded. what are the circumstances that instigated being boarded?
Boarded twice. 1st time in the months after 9/11 boarded by a combined USCG and Navy team near the Bangor sub base. Full inpsection of the boat, boat's documents. Asked for documents of all aboard. 2nd time while on a short delivery Bellingham to Portland by a combined force of USCG, US Border partrol, CG border patrol and RCMP. Nope, I'm not making this up. Full inpsection of the boat and boats documents. Asked for personal docs of all aboard. As far as I know nothing we were doing instigated the boardings.
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Old 02-14-2022, 07:00 AM   #34
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30 years boating all around puget sound and fishing se alaska i've never been boarded. what are the circumstances that instigated being boarded?
My first was a "standard" safety inspection (and training I would guess). I was 3 hours into my cruise from winter storage to summer slip and as I was approaching the CT River breakwater I saw the CG boat leaving a sailboat that was ahead of me. I knew I would be next.
It was painless, everything worked, and we had all our documentation in a binder.

Second time was when we were broken down and anchored in the Harlem River and I called them on the radio. I had just gotten the engine running again when they showed up. No inspection this time, they were just there to help if we needed it.
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Old 02-14-2022, 08:58 AM   #35
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It seems very strange to me that in the USA, one is required to have a photo ID to operate a boat, but a photo ID is not required to vote in National elections.
There is no requirement to have a picture ID to operate a motor vessel in ANY of the 50 states.

There is no legal requirement to have a motor vehicle license to operate a motor vessel either. Yes, there is a weird relationship where you will loose your motor vehicle license if found operating ANY motorized vehicle or vessel while intoxicated. Which puts you in a weird place where you could operate a motor vessel with no motor vehicle license, but NOT if you loose your motor vehicle license for DUI/DWI.

In almost every state, if not all, the legal age to operate a motor vessel is well under the legal age to operate a motor vehicle.

Let's not twist this discussion into you warped view on US Politics.
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Old 02-14-2022, 09:01 AM   #36
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Boarded twice. 1st time in the months after 9/11 boarded by a combined USCG and Navy team near the Bangor sub base. Full inpsection of the boat, boat's documents. Asked for documents of all aboard. 2nd time while on a short delivery Bellingham to Portland by a combined force of USCG, US Border partrol, CG border patrol and RCMP. Nope, I'm not making this up. Full inpsection of the boat and boats documents. Asked for personal docs of all aboard. As far as I know nothing we were doing instigated the boardings.
sounds a bit intimidating to say the least. i find border agents to be very coarse as a rule, all their questions aimed at trying to get you to slip up. even for someone like me that follows all the laws to my best knowledge, it makes you feel like you've done something wrong.
it's interesting that the coast guard, or even the local harbor patrol can stop and board your vessel at any time without any cause. the harbor patrol may have a different rule set, but i'm not certain. in my area i see them stopping boats all the time, presumably just spot checking.
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Old 02-14-2022, 09:34 AM   #37
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The combined USCG and Navy boarding was very imtimdating. They came aboard heavily armed and with an attitude. Understandable to a certain degree given we were near the Bangor sub base and it was just months after 9/11. But it seemed over the top to me.

I almost got in trouble with the combined US and Canada boarding. After all were satisfied they closed the boarding and inspection with a request that if we saw anything unusual to report immediately. Well, my filters failed me and I said "I've seen something unusual allright!" That got their attention and they wanted to know immediately what I'd seen. When I said it was thier combined boarding force I could seel that my attempt at humor was not well recieved. I did follow up with a serious question about the reason for the combined force and was told it was a cross border effort. All boats had all the personnel aboard with jurisdiction over anything they encountered on either side of the border. Some time later I was talking with a friend who was working on the west side of Vancouver Island about the same time and was borded by a combined force there. I don't know if it was a training exercise or if they were looking for something but geographically it was apparently a large effort.

All in all I'm happy we've got people looking out for our security. I've always kept the vessel's documents in order, everything up to date. I'll show those papers, ID for everyone aboard and answer any reasonable questions. In another country I respect thier rights to board and inspect a foreign vessel.
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Old 02-14-2022, 09:44 AM   #38
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There is no requirement to have a picture ID to operate a motor vessel in ANY of the 50 states.

There is no legal requirement to have a motor vehicle license to operate a motor vessel either. Yes, there is a weird relationship where you will loose your motor vehicle license if found operating ANY motorized vehicle or vessel while intoxicated. Which puts you in a weird place where you could operate a motor vessel with no motor vehicle license, but NOT if you loose your motor vehicle license for DUI/DWI.

In almost every state, if not all, the legal age to operate a motor vessel is well under the legal age to operate a motor vehicle.

Let's not twist this discussion into you warped view on US Politics.

Shrew, I agree 100% with not interjecting politics into a boating thread like this.

I do believe, however, that some state require boating cards for certain segments of the population and that some of these states also require photo ID to be used with the boating card.

Generally states will offer ID cards similar to driver licenses for folks who do not drive. I don't know, however, if these same states will offer photo ID cards to minors?

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Old 02-14-2022, 02:25 PM   #39
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I'm just trying to determine if there's legal basis or prior precedent that says that an inquiry to see my ID necessitates that it be my driver's license. Or if they ask to see my drivers license, what happens if I instead offer my passport.
I can speak for my state (Virginia), depending on who boards you and for what reason, they may ask for ID (and depending on who they are, they may say "driver's license" out of habit), but there is no requirement to have any specific ID on board. So whatever you show would be acceptable.

I frequently go out without any ID other than ship's papers (which includes my "I can drive a boat card" with my name on it). Out of curiosity I asked a neighbor (who is marine police) what happens if I am boarded with no ID and he said "it depends on what you did". I think his meaning was, in short, if they are issuing a citation, they will want to confirm my name and address. If they can't, I have not violated any additional laws or regulations by not carrying ID.

Having worked with law enforcement quite a bit, if I was a jerk about it, I imagine they'd find a way to make it more painful or waste more time. I spent 21 years defending the constitution so I want to take advantage of its protections, but I still try to not be a jerk.
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Old 02-14-2022, 03:07 PM   #40
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sounds a bit intimidating to say the least. i find border agents to be very coarse as a rule, all their questions aimed at trying to get you to slip up.
I never felt intimidated by the GC boarding. They were friendly and courteous and respectful.
Also applies to the time we were NOT boarded, but a CG inflatable came at us a full bore and told us to STOP and turn the boat around until the submarine passed ahead of us. They were very nice and it only interrupted our trip by a few minutes.
Oh, and then there was the time shortly after 911 that were were "dogged" by a machine gun wielding patrol boat as we slowly cruised up the Thames river past the Groton, CT sub base. That might have been just a touch intimidating, but at least the gun remained in it's mount.
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