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Old 03-26-2020, 06:05 PM   #161
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FF,
I have seen anchor tests that show 5 and 15 times as much holding power from next gen anchors. I question if that is physically possible. Most anchor tests are run by magazines and they tend to support their advertisers who of course are selling new anchors.
Anchors have been developing and evolving for 100 yrs and more. But the curve of anchor abilities will not be a straight line. As we march toward perfection improvements will traditionally become less and less. So a curve representing improvements will be flatter and flatter as time goes on.
This would indicate to me that older anchors will be (performance wise) very similar to new anchors. But the performance shown on anchor tests indicate that very recently a huge increase in performance just took place. This seems to indicate that one will not be safe w/o buying a new anchor. A perfect storm for magazines and anchor manufacturers.
The only feature that sticks out prominently is the roll bar. But the roll bar is not a positive holding power performance feature IMO. It’s a setting feature.
So where does all this spectacular increase in performance come from? Personally I think that most of it dosn’t exist.
Another factor involved here is how we use them. Specifically the high number of people that never even subject an anchor to 1/2 of it’s capability. And that could apply to an old Danforth from 1938 or a new-gen Rocna. The holding power of the newer anchors is so great that what anchor one chooses should (more or less) not be based on holding power but on other features like setting, veering, reversing, mountability on boats, lightness, price and numerous other features. One can get more bang for the buck shopping for these features.
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:10 PM   #162
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Could it be like cars?

The engineering demanded for better anchors over time may have produced better performance....
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:15 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"New generation anchors offer greater holding that past designs. That means you can use a lighter anchor and have the same security we had in the past with less effective design."

If this were true (which I doubt) why would you want to?

Most power boat folks have a powered windlass so a good sized anchor is no more bother than a much touted watch fob.
Quoting...who exactly..? You said Wilco FF, remember..? I'll add the 'over and out'...
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:24 PM   #164
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The US Navy hasn't changed its anchor design in almost forever. Make it big and paint it grey.
I wont talk about anchors design used on nuclear subs. I am still too pretty to go to prison.
I will leak just a little information. It is painted black.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:31 PM   #165
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FF wrote;
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"New generation anchors offer greater holding that past designs. That means you can use a lighter anchor and have the same security we had in the past with less effective design."

But more importantly you can also have reversals w/o worrying about the rode pulling the anchor out, very poor performance on certain seafloors, poor short scope performance ect ect. Plus you only need an anchor 1/2 the size and/or weight. But have you ever heard of anyone on TF downsizing an anchor. Marin Faure got a size up when he bought a Rocna even though the Rocna had at least twice the holding power of his old Burce.

So FF I don’t see any from this group buying a half weight anchor.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:52 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
FF wrote;
Originally Posted by FF View Post

So FF I donít see any from this group buying a half weight anchor.
Lightweight - Fortress!

Good holding power in certain bottom conditions; especially mud.
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Old 03-26-2020, 11:57 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
FF wrote;
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"New generation anchors offer greater holding that past designs. That means you can use a lighter anchor and have the same security we had in the past with less effective design."

But more importantly you can also have reversals w/o worrying about the rode pulling the anchor out, very poor performance on certain seafloors, poor short scope performance ect ect. Plus you only need an anchor 1/2 the size and/or weight. But have you ever heard of anyone on TF downsizing an anchor. Marin Faure got a size up when he bought a Rocna even though the Rocna had at least twice the holding power of his old Burce.

So FF I don’t see any from this group buying a half weight anchor.
No Eric, FF didn't say that - he was quoting someone else, and which is why I have urged him, and others, (if the cap fits), to use the quote button more, and edit out what he does not want to leave, so there is no doubt.

What FF actually said was...

"If this were true (which I doubt) why would you want to?
Most power boat folks have a powered windlass so a good sized anchor is no more bother than a much touted watch fob."

Which was in response to the bit you quoted, but you, (like I suspect many others), missed his quotation marks.

See FF, this is exactly what I meant, when I said please use the 'quote' button. The big blue thing labeled 'Quote', third from left at the bottom of the post concerned. It is just as quick to highlight and delete what you don't want or need to include, (and I applaud folk doing that, rather than just regurgitating the whole post as a quote), as it is to highlight, copy & paste just the bits you want to quote + quotation marks, and with who it is quoting all done for yah. It works a treat, I tell you...
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:23 AM   #168
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The quote " New generation anchors offer greater holding that past designs. That means you can use a lighter anchor and have the same security we had in the past with less effective design." Was from post #152.

Sorry if some folks do not understand the meaning and use of quotation marks

Magazines live off their advertisers, the 15 time better holding , is mostly under a Bridge to Brooklyn.

No question folks have been experimenting with anchors for the past 4000-5000 years .

Although it would be Hell to handle and stow. if I were forced to have only ONE anchor for a world cruise a folding Herrishoff Yachtsman would be first choice.

UGH,, way heavy and too much work to get back aboard , but I would sleep well.

IF allowed a couple of Danforth H series .
Mr Ogg the inventor of the Danforth in his book sez never to use a single anchor, 2 is his minimum .
4 or 5 make a great seasonal mooring , that can be relocated if required.

For most 35-45 fters a Danforth 35H at bow and a 20H at stern would be fine until the real storm warnings fly.
Then its time to drop the 60H underfoot and have an anchor watch to fend off the dragers sliding by.

A 60 CQR should be fine for the folks that prefer only one anchor.

The 15 lb modern watch fob could make a nice nautical lamp.
The roll bar would help moving it from cabin to cabin.
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:32 AM   #169
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I agree with not believing claims of 10 or 15 times better. But for the most part, newer designs do seem to work better than a CQR, Bruce, Delta, etc. So if a new anchor is being purchased and a newer design is in the budget, might as well get one.

The Danforth (and Fortress) are a separate category in my book. They're not great under all conditions, but for the conditions where they work well, they work very well, even against modern designs.

For the 2 anchors thing, there are certainly times where 2 anchors is the best way to do it. But in an open space with plenty of swing room, it makes more sense to just use 1 anchor and rode setup that's big enough to hold. That's both for ease of handling and for ease of getting everything set and used correctly.
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:14 AM   #170
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I agree the Fortress is in a different category than the Danforth. They are the same type of course but Danforth invented the type .. in 1938. And the genuine Danforth anchor still is a viable go-to anchor. But the copies are probably more numerous and even more unfortunately are way below the genuine products performance. Many shouldn’t even be legal to sell.

And even though the Danforth is steel I believe the holding per lb is probably comparable to modern designs. In 50yrs time the Danforth anchor will be held up as an excellent product.

Re the two anchor thing I’ve never done it.
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:31 AM   #171
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Peter B,
Not exactly.
The problem is most all don’t “edit out” ... what is irrelevant is rarely edited out.
I prefer to copy and paste my quotes. That way only what is relevant is posted. Only about 30% of the quote you posted is from/by FF.
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Old Yesterday, 07:11 AM   #172
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While I know it takes up space, I have seen partial quotes that get repeated for pages and the original poster is now being quoted out of context...thus new posts debating something that maybe wouldn't have been had the whole post been quoted the first time.
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Old Today, 06:04 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
The quote " New generation anchors offer greater holding that past designs. That means you can use a lighter anchor and have the same security we had in the past with less effective design." Was from post #152.

Sorry if some folks do not understand the meaning and use of quotation marks

A 60 CQR should be fine for the folks that prefer only one anchor.

The 15 lb modern watch fob could make a nice nautical lamp.
The roll bar would help moving it from cabin to cabin.
FF, read this carefully, I weell say this only wooonce... (now where have I heard that before).

1. We get the quotation marks - usually - the trouble is it gives no idea who you are quoting, or where from.

2. My S-Sarca, weighed, (when I owned it) 22kg = 45lbs, and I think, even for a 34 foot boat, that is NOT a watch fob. You need to get out more, (once allowed, that is), and actually see/? try more anchors. Just sayin' If you WILCO, I'll Over and out.
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