Vulcan versus Standard Rocna, SS v Galvanized

[Nomad Willy]

It should observed that the Rocna was designed to be the highest holding power anchor and it has come close. But most anchor tests say it comes up short at short scope. Regular boaters wouldn't notice that in the benign conditions that 99% of boaters anchor in. But the extreme forces that comprehensive anchor tests employ usually separate the really desirable anchors from the wannabees.

Re the Vulcan it's obvious it was designed to pick up the huge market that Rocna's "optimum" or "ideal" anchor wouldn't serve as the product (a roll bar anchor) wouldn't fit on the bows of a high percentage of existing boats. So the Vulcan emerged and unless Rocna discovered a miracle that made the Vulcan as good or better (unlikely) then the Vulcan would seem to lack the performance of the Rocna.
Also the Vulcan is almost a duplicate of one of the best anchors in the world (Spade) so the Vulcan move by Rocna could be considered an admission that Spade got it right in the first place.

But one can't ignore the fact that Rocna could have built the Vulcan in the first place instead of the standard Rocna anchor. They thought the Rocna was best so I don't think anybody would be bark'in up the wrong tree if they came to the conclusion that the Vulcan is .... something less.

But it could be better if one is of the same opinion as I am regarding what makes the best anchor. Frequently any product that excels above most of the rest or all of them in one way is probably inferior in most other ways. The Rocna appears to be one of those products. It has the highest holding power of any anchor that will function quite well under most circumstances. And the most important variable in anchoring is the bottom as in sea floor. There's 27 different kinds of snow according to eskimos and there's probably 27 different kinds of mud found on the sea floor. The Rocna made a shockingly poor showing on/in at least one of those kinds of mud. And mud is by far the most common bottom the world over.

So there's two things the Rocna did that was somewhere in the order of a failing performance. Either crowded anchorages or small anchorages will bring about the need for good performance in either very slimy and loose mud or short scope holding power in a small anchorage should the wind come along.

Many anchors can't match the Rocna's high holding power at long scope but most other good choices (anchors) will hold a boat well in anything but a screaming wind in Patagonia. So why all the interest in all out holding power. Kinda like buying a 150mph car to go to your bank at 5:15 Friday evening. Just don't need it .. excluding WifyB.

Once a boater realizes he dosn't need extreme performance in any other way but possibly one (setting dependability) there are lots of really good anchors. Most scoop anchors including Spade and probably Supermax but not many tests have shown us it's capabilities. Also the Manson Supreme and Boss along w Mantus and Anchor Right Australia's new plow the Excel. But my favorite (not really a plow or a scoop) is the ARA Supersarca. And I may have missed some.

But Rocna could have very well fixed the bow pulpit problem and also the short scope problem w not much loss in holding power. That would make the Vulcan very desirable if it did all other things very well.

So there's lots of choices and anyone saying one is best is almost no doubt just hype. But if there really is a best anchor it will be IMO an anchor that does all things better than most of the rest. Start w setting ability.

 

[Bigsfish]

Good comments Nomad. Everybody has an opinion as to what is the best anchor depending on their experience. Wouldn't it be nice if some reliable tester with no affiliation to any anchor manufacturer could test all the major anchors in various bottoms to but this at rest. ��

 

[dhays]

One more project on my list is to upgrade the anchor, I currently have 300ft of chain and will add some rode to that but my anchor is undersized. (25kg Rocna).

From what I have read the Rocnas are great so thinking about getting a 55 or 70kg one but am curious if the bar around the top of it helps or is it worth getting the Vulcan? Also my guess is stainless is a weaker anchor, etc but looks better. Any reason to get stainless other than the looks? any reason not to?



Thanks for answering my barrage of questions!

Arthur

I would agree that your anchor is likely a bit undersized. However, I would first consider where and how you will be using the anchor. You may not need to replace it right away.

When you do look to replace it, consider a bunch of difference anchors beyond just the Rocna.

You may also want to consider a Sarca Excel if you don't want a roll bar. My experience a couple weeks ago with having mine set and reset itself while the current shifted 180 degrees repeatedly all the time keeping me off a lee shore has given me a lot of confidence in my Sarca Excel.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Everybody seems to think your Rocna is undersized. May not be.

The Roocna is a very high holding power anchor. Would seem a rather small size would be appropriate compared to other anchors. What does Rocna recommend? I think they size for 50 knot winds. When one buys a Claw most informed boaters buy a size larger. Then why not buy a size smaller for high performance anchors? A 55lb high holding anchor should hold a big boat IMO. What most anchor manufacturers recomend for anchor size is all over the place from what I've seen. Some size for strong breezes and others size for a gale. Some just want to sell you more steel and some feel they need to keep lawyers at bay.

I use 15lb anchors for a 30' boat w/o a FB or any mast or rigging. Never have dragged. My boat came w a 13lb fairly high holding power Danforth. It hasn't dragged either.

 

[TimButterfield]

There is an article on morganscloud about the Rocna, Vulcan, and keeping their recommendation of Spade. A direct link doesn't show all of the article, but a google search for "anchors rocna vulcan spade" (without quotes) found it. By coincidence, the SpadeAnchorUSA web shop has a sale on at the moment for the "S" steel series. If the sale is still on at the near the end of the month, I may need to see if Fisheries Supply can match it for an S100 to replace a claw anchor.

 

[BruceK]

Good comments Nomad. Everybody has an opinion as to what is the best anchor depending on their experience. Wouldn't it be nice if some reliable tester with no affiliation to any anchor manufacturer could test all the major anchors in various bottoms to but this at rest. ��

Surely that already happened right here on TF, with Steve(SV Panope)`s systematic testing of a wide range of anchors.

 

[twistedtree]

Assuming you are going to actually use the anchor and it's not just a hood ornament, I would pick galvanized over stainless even if the price were the same. It won't take much use for that stainless anchor to look like crap, so why bother. To me, a well worn anchor is a badge of honor.

 

[Bigsfish]

BruceK

Actually not all of the new generation anchors were tested and not in various bottoms. Steve dies a great Jon don't get me wrong.

 

[Nomad Willy]

There is an article on morganscloud about the Rocna, Vulcan, and keeping their recommendation of Spade. A direct link doesn't show all of the article, but a google search for "anchors rocna vulcan spade" (without quotes) found it. By coincidence, the SpadeAnchorUSA web shop has a sale on at the moment for the "S" steel series. If the sale is still on at the near the end of the month, I may need to see if Fisheries Supply can match it for an S100 to replace a claw anchor.

Tim,
Good luck but the last time I was in FS all they had basically was wall to wall Rocna. I was hoping to see a new Spade anchor. They were the dealer but had nothing to show. That may have been over a year ago though. I don't totally like the ballast chamber but it dosen't seem to suffer from it. Everything else seems like the perfect anchor. In one or more of the tests I have the aluminum Spade dosn't even approach the performance of the steel Spades. Steve (Panope) fell in love w the steel spade an immediately bought one. Dosn't seem as "pop" as some like Rocna but a really high performer down through the years.

 

[sunchaser]

Eric

I agree with you that the Vulcan and Spade appear to be twins, fraternal maybe but close. I favored the Vulcan for two reasons. First, it offered the size I wanted whereas the Spade did not. Second it was quite favorably priced in Canada vs Spade.

As far as performance, it is 33% heavier than the quite acceptable Bruce it replaced. So I must have gained something in holding power. After 18 months it seems it was a good choice. But, I do not recommend any anchor. They all have their supporters and detractors.

 

[HopCar]

I delivered this stainless Vulcan to a Krogan Express in Ft. Pierce. It sure looks nice. The Rocna would not have fit as the roll bar would have hit the bottom of the pulpit.

If the anchor shank comes up through the pulpit, choose a Vulcan.
If the anchor hangs off the end of the pulpit, either the Vulcan or Rocna will work.

 

[Peter B]

BruceK

Actually not all of the new generation anchors were tested and not in various bottoms. Steve dies a great Jon don't get me wrong.

Really..? naughty spell-checker...

 

[rwidman]

Resetting is always a concern in shifting winds/currents. ............

Most of my boating (and anchoring) is done in the SE USA where reversing tidal currents cannot be avoided. I honestly don't know if my Lewmar claw anchor resets each time the current reverses or if it just holds in place but I suspect the latter because I'm always in the same place in the morning as I was the night before.

I don't just drop the anchor and shut the engine off, I back down under power. And I use plenty of scope.

 

[Bigsfish]

WesK

I'll bite. How much power (RPMs) do you back down with? Size of anchor? Size of boat?

Thanks.

 

[Nomad Willy]

​

Really..? naughty spell-checker...

Peter,
Yea, what was that all about?????

Tom,
Indeed I was hoping to hear from you. Been in any 50 knot gales? HaHa you did the same thing Marin did .. changed out a weak Claw for a bigger and late model high performance anchor. The Claw was small in both cases? It was re Marin. You had the Claw for many years as I recall. Well as I've always said a really big Claw is a high performance anchor. But that's not 100% true as the Claws have two habbits that have been known to show their ugly heads. One is to to remain on it's side and kinda plow along .. never getting vertical. The other less well known bad habit is to break out under high rode tension. See Steve's anchor vids. I think it's a matter of too much throat angle. Like an aircraft wing .. too much load and too much angle of attack and the wing/fluke stalls. I have this theory that Claws (and perhaps all anchors) stall like a wing and pop up and out of the seafloor .. "breakout". But not a typical breakout in the case of the Claw in Steve's vids. In a typical breakout the anchor comes straight out w little pitch change. What I think I saw in Steve's video's was the back of the anchor popping up butt first so for a moment the fluke was pointing down at a steep angle. I think this is from too much fluke pitching down attitude. Like a wing stall. My Claw is a Lewmar and it looks like it's one of the wide throat angle Claws. Would like to get a shallow angle Claw but haven't got the time to look for one. My other Claw is 22lbs .. too smal for a Claw on my boat. The Lewmar is 33lbs. Perfect.

 

[Bigsfish]

All

Just to clear things up I really do admire Steve's work and have followed him for a long time but I understand he only has so much time and money to to his experiments with anchors. It is the best we have but it could be better. With unlimited funds he could try even more anchors and different bottoms. I know people set up a "go fund me" account but I know nothing about them or how to set them up but I would certainly be willing to contribute to such a fund. Does anyone think that is feasible?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Bigfish,
Steve's tests are as advertised "Anchor Setting Videos" and he throws in a violent reversal gig. The 3 knot reversal is way too violent for the real world IMO but it does reveal anchor dynamics that would otherwise never be seen. I don't know if it did but it could have dumped bad press on an anchor that was very good in the real world but failed miserably in the test because of the weed.

But I love Steve's vids and regularly go back to reference this or that.
Haven't seen him post for some time.

The other thing is his boat dosn't have nearly enough power to adequately test these 40lb anchors for holding power. Again it was a setting test but it could have been a holding power test if the anchors he used were 10 or 15 lbs.

Never the less his photography was excellent to stunning and I took away more from his vids than most other anchor tests.

As to the "go fund me" I would definitely help fund Steve but just anybody? ... probably not. I have some testing I'd like to do but never seem to get around to it.

 

[Bigsfish]

Eric

I agree, Steve's are the best I have seen and he doesn't have a dog in the fight. Now to find out if Steve would except the $$$ and find someone to set it up.

 

[BruceK]

Eric

I agree, Steve's are the best I have seen and he doesn't have a dog in the fight. Now to find out if Steve would except the $$$ and find someone to set it up.

While I think Steve expressed interest in becoming a professional anchor assessor or reviewer(my words not his), that is different to being funded.
For me his uncommitted disinterested amateur reviewer status carries great weight. I don`t expect testing perfection, what I get is unvarnished results and comments based on transparent consistent testing regimes. I`m hesitant to suggest changing a model that works, even though it might work better for Steve if his budget was more accommodating.

 

[Peter B]

Really..? naughty spell-checker...

​

Peter,
Yea, what was that all about?????

Steve dies a great Jon

 

[Bigsfish]

BruceK

I'm not suggesting that Steve should change but if he was receiving donations to defray some costs he may be able to expand his testing.

 

[Panope]

While I think Steve expressed interest in becoming a professional anchor assessor or reviewer(my words not his), that is different to being funded.
For me his uncommitted disinterested amateur reviewer status carries great weight. I don`t expect testing perfection, what I get is unvarnished results and comments based on transparent consistent testing regimes. I`m hesitant to suggest changing a model that works, even though it might work better for Steve if his budget was more accommodating.

Greetings, All.

I agree with Bruce. Funding, even anonymous funding could result in my "skewing" information if for no other reason than to make a good "show".

Best to keep "satisfying my curiosity" as the primary motivation.

That said, I did recently "monetize" my YouTube account. This action enables the (skip-able) advertisements and corresponding payments to me. The money is nothing ($20 per month). I did this with the belief that YouTube will give my material a higher ranking via searches and video suggestions.

Steve

 

[Bigsfish]

Steve

I understand, now to stimulate your curiosity. LOL

 

[rwidman]

WesK

I'll bite. How much power (RPMs) do you back down with? Size of anchor? Size of boat?

Thanks.

I can't say what RPM because my wife is running the boat at that point and I am the anchor tender. My guess? 1200 -1500 RPM. She will back until there's enough rode out, then stop and let me cleat the rode off. Then she backs until the rode is tight and we're not moving. It rarely doesn't set on the first try. Just for reference, we would be moving at 3-4 knots or so at that RPM if we weren't anchored.

I use the anchor drag alarm on my plotter but the only time it has ever sounded is if I didn't allow for a big enough swing radius.

It's a 33 lb Lewmar Claw and a 31' Camano Troll.

 

[psneeld]

Irv...this is from the Fortress website and the little guides they send with their anchors.

It suggests your boats pulling power to use against the estimated holding power of the anchor.

You use your boats total HP to "power set" your anchor....recommended to be done very slowly. It makes more sense to me to go backwards....use what holding power number you want and figure out what rpm you need based on your engineschp at a given rpm.

Safe Anchoring Guide - The World’s Best Anchors!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Those are some good useable numbers. Computes w most everything I've read and heard. Lines up nicely w Steves Panope experience too.

WesK,
Same w me but frequently I walk back to the window at the helm and tell her what rpm to come up to. But we mostly use hand signals and they usually work well. She dosn't like being yelled at.

 

[dvd]

I've followed most "anchoring" threads, but haven't chipped in because so much is subjective. I'll add my "opinion" on the Rocna. I cruised for three years on the East Coast & Caribbean with the roll-bar Rocna and absolutely loved it (PDQ 34 powercat). Never let me down, never dragged, always set quickly and well, diving deep into the Bahama sand. I'm now cruising Alaska (with a different boat) and have the Vulcan, a bit oversized at 25 kg for a Nordic Tug 32. I also have a relatively short anchor rode for PNW at 100' chain and 150' line. So far, the Vulcan is performing - only once I couldn't set it (Lowe Inlet, deep & gravelly, notorious for poor sets) so went a few more miles to East Inlet where it set well in the mud.

In the Bahamas, I always dove on the anchor to check how it set. I don't do that here in Alaska...

dvd
(Blog at: daveandelaineruntime.blogspot.com)

 

[Bigsfish]

Scott

Are you saying I need to set my anchor with 960 hp? That sounds very excessive. I usually put a good pull on the anchor but I'm certainly not pegging the throttles in reverse.

 

[psneeld]

Irv, you only have to guess or go back to holding power tables to see how much you expect your anchor has to hold for the conditions, then figure out how much hp you need to use.

That why I said for me, it makes sense to work backwards to see what you need, not max HP which will usually drag your anchor.

 

[Bigsfish]

My education is not that good Scott. My current boat is 50K pounds and I would want it to hold in 40 mph wind anchored at night. So if I can find the hp necessary to hold to that degree how do I determine what rpm produces that HP? I don't have a clue.