Tying to shore in a tiny bay

[MurrayM]

There is a small bay/nook along a very steep shore about 115' across and 75' to the back which looks like it might be a contender for the following technique...

Instead of dropping the anchor and doing a stern tie (bottom starts at over 100' and drops quickly to over 300') could you tie off to shore by the port, starboard, and stern?

The plan would be to position the boat bow out and be held in place by the lines to shore. Tides can be 20' or so, which adds a bit of a wrinkle.

Traditional anchoring opportunities nearby are very marginal with drying estuary flats and steep sloping mud bottoms dropping several hundred feet before levelling out. Strong alternating inflow and outflow winds combined with downdrafts from surrounding cliffs and mountains complicate things further.

Looking for a solution solid enough where one could go hiking up the valley all day and not worry (too much) about what the boat is doing.

Has anybody done something like this? Tips? Warnings?

 

[koliver]

There is a small bay/nook along a very steep shore about 115' across and 75' to the back which looks like it might be a contender for the following technique...

Instead of dropping the anchor and doing a stern tie (bottom starts at over 100' and drops quickly to over 300') could you tie off to shore by the port, starboard, and stern?

The plan would be to position the boat bow out and be held in place by the lines to shore. Tides can be 20' or so, which adds a bit of a wrinkle.

Traditional anchoring opportunities nearby are very marginal with drying estuary flats and steep sloping mud bottoms dropping several hundred feet before levelling out. Strong alternating inflow and outflow winds combined with downdrafts from surrounding cliffs and mountains complicate things further.

Looking for a solution solid enough where one could go hiking up the valley all day and not worry (too much) about what the boat is doing.

Has anybody done something like this? Tips? Warnings?

Years ago, when the sein fleet fished, you would see seiners tied to shore while they waited for an opening. In Johnstone strait, where the water depth close to shore is sufficient, the bow and stern lines and a few fenders were all that was needed.

I haven't seen many seiners out in recent years, but I would be surprised if this practice has stopped.

 

[MurrayM]

Years ago, when the sein fleet fished, you would see seiners tied to shore while they waited for an opening. In Johnstone strait, where the water depth close to shore is sufficient, the bow and stern lines and a few fenders were all that was needed.

I haven't seen many seiners out in recent years, but I would be surprised if this practice has stopped.

Hmmm...plausible!

This would be in a tight, winding, mountain lined lagoon, so fetch would be minimal. Maybe one side of the nook would work with your suggested technique. Sure would simplify things.

There must be some spots in Desolation Sound with ring bolts set up for positioning oneself in tiny nooks? Swedish and Norwegian boaters might have done this, and there has to be a hairy chested Alaskan or two out there who's done it.

 

[MurrayM]

Then again...I still have some bolts and hangers from my rock climbing days.

Imagine if you will, along a steep enough section of granite shoreline;

- one could place a bolt at the low tide line, then place another bolt directly above it and above the high tide line, then connect the two with cable.

- Then do the same at a distance somewhat greater than the length of the boat.

- One could then attach to the vertical cables with double opposed stainless steel carabiners and a length of line to the bow & stern.

Then the issue would be an autonomous way for the fenders not getting ripped off with a rising tide or flipped over the gunwale on a lowering tide.

Willing to expend some effort on this, as Foch Lagoon is a place we want to frequent.

 

[MurrayM]

Like this, but in a tight nook:

 

[Conrad]

Murray, your original thought sounds very workable to me. Just stern tying taken to the extreme! It sounds like you wouldn't have large seas coming in, and having the bow out would handle the small stuff. The trick I think would be how tight/loose you make your lines to accommodate the tides.

 

[Comodave]

When we boated at Lake Powell we used to take several lengths of chain and would wrap them around small boulders and use a shackle to tie them together. Then put a line with a thimble in the shore end onto the shackle.

 

[MurrayM]

Good info here, for calm weather:

 

[MurrayM]

Murray, your original thought sounds very workable to me. Just stern tying taken to the extreme! It sounds like you wouldn't have large seas coming in, and having the bow out would handle the small stuff. The trick I think would be how tight/loose you make your lines to accommodate the tides.

Concerning tides...I was thinking something like this (not these exactly, but the same concept on a larger scale) which would tighten up the lines at high tide, but not affect the integrity of the lines so they could stretch at low tide.

Might be doable as the nook seems to be protected from the main winds up & down the lagoon.

 

[MurrayM]

When we boated at Lake Powell we used to take several lengths of chain and would wrap them around small boulders and use a shackle to tie them together. Then put a line with a thimble in the shore end onto the shackle.

Would that be for a stern tie, or to both sides of the boat in a narrow slot in the shore?

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

so Murray if you're a 100 ft deep at the shore, it means that the there is no beach just another vertical face. Where do you get off the boat? We have anchored over night in several areas like you have described, Baker inlet comes to mind also the Harmony islands on the west side just not as deep. You still have to dingy to shore. This makes anchoring easier in that you can stand off from shore but still need to have a stern line... What you want to do is a pretty typical stern tie, you just need to have a place to stern tie to and a some where to land the dingy....

 

[MurrayM]

so Murray if you're a 100 ft deep at the shore, it means that the there is no beach just another vertical face. Where do you get off the boat? We have anchored over night in several areas like you have described, Baker inlet comes to mind also the Harmony islands on the west side just not as deep. You still have to dingy to shore. This makes anchoring easier in that you can stand off from shore but still need to have a stern line... What you want to do is a pretty typical stern tie, you just need to have a place to stern tie to and a some where to land the dingy....

The head of the lagoon would be a .5 mile dinghy ride away, so no hardship there.

This is all in the 'pondering while whittling on the porch' phase.

We could try a stern tie by dropping the anchor on the deep & steep bottom, pulling uphill while backing towards shore, but with the tides it would put too much play in the system and we'd probably bounce off the sides of the little bay.

If we did it along the steep shore outside the little bay, the boat would be subjected to side loading from wind. We were stern tied in McMicking Inlet and had to dinghy out our spare anchor upwind and tie it to the midship cleat in order to keep from wandering onto a rock. This spot doesn't allow for that.

We'll be leaving the boat all day to go photographing ashore, and would be completely out of sight of the boat for a full tide cycle or more.

600' of 8 strand and 100' of chain is sounding better all the time, so as to anchor in deeeeep water

 

[MurrayM]

Something like this:

 

[Conrad]

I would only have one stern line. The fewer lines you have to adjust the better, and I don't see the need for the two stern lines.

 

[MurrayM]

I would only have one stern line. The fewer lines you have to adjust the better, and I don't see the need for the two stern lines.

Peace of mind? Redundancy? We won't be around to fuss with the lines all day.

There may be an anchoring option closer to the head of the lagoon, but there are warnings on the charts around here for depths not being what was sounded about 100 years ago...lots of silt & mud has come down from the mountains since the charts were made. Sunken mature spruce trees with root wads attached, etc.

We were in one spot in Kildala Arm that should have been 20' deep and turned out to be 5' deep

 

[micheln]

How much line are you carrying

Back in my working days, we once strung a 3" line between 2 small islands and then tied the boat to the line for an overnight as it was not possible to anchor.

Came across several places last summer like you describe, Made me long for a crew of snotty 20 year olds...

 

[MurrayM]

How much line are you carrying

Right now we have 600' of 3/8 yellow polypropylene floating line on a spool, if I remember correctly.

Back in my working days, we once strung a 3" line between 2 small islands and then tied the boat to the line for an overnight as it was not possible to anchor...

Must have been higher than your mast & antenna, in case you passed under it?

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

Ok Murray, One more idea from long ago.... this requires a separate anchor or using a lot of rode. Basically you set the anchor on the up slope , then the next attachment goes to the shore. To attach the boat you attach a loop of line from a forward cleat to the anchor rode. Attach a line snubber to the anchor rode and tie off to the aft cleat. This holds the boat in deeper water. The best way to describe this is side tying the boat to the anchor rode that runs from the anchor to the shore...
A drawing makes this explanation simple but that ain't happening tonight.

 

[MurrayM]

Ok Murray, One more idea from long ago.... this requires a separate anchor or using a lot of rode. Basically you set the anchor on the up slope , then the next attachment goes to the shore. To attach the boat you attach a loop of line from a forward cleat to the anchor rode. Attach a line snubber to the anchor rode and tie off to the aft cleat. This holds the boat in deeper water. The best way to describe this is side tying the boat to the anchor rode that runs from the anchor to the shore...
A drawing makes this explanation simple but that ain't happening tonight.

A head scratcher for sure!

Think I'll wait for the diagram

 

[boathealer]

When we lived on the river in North Carolina there was a very popular way to tie up boats temporarily to handle varying wind directions, chop, and tidal shifts. I will try to describe it with words to see if that works.

There was usually a small dock or chunk of wood platform at the shoreline. Right there, there was also a tall post or piling.

There is a corresponding piling placed about 5 or 6 boat lengths out into the river. A line is strong between the 2 posts at a height that allows the boat to clear underneath. Blocks are used at each end to make a sort of "clothes line" that can be manually pulled in either direction from shore.

A short tether is tied at a fixed point to the clothes line that has a means to fasten to the bow of the boat.

The process is - you pull the boat up to the shore dock, get off, tie the tether to the bow of the boat, And then run the close line, with the boat, out to the middle of the space between the 2 posts. From there, the boat can swing in any direction about the tether point, underneath the line, and rise and fall with the tide ("clothes line" is always taller than the boat at high tide). To get back on, you simply run the clothes line with the boat attached back over to the shore location for boarding. Granted, this was only with a 3ft tidal range.

Might it be possible to use a similar technique, tying a heavy line up high spanning the entire small bay (or a chord/slice of it) and then tie the boat only to that line at the center point?

 

[MurrayM]

When we lived on the river in North Carolina there was a very popular way to tie up boats temporarily to handle varying wind directions, chop, and tidal shifts. I will try to describe it with words to see if that works.

There was usually a small dock or chunk of wood platform at the shoreline. Right there, there was also a tall post or piling.

There is a corresponding piling placed about 5 or 6 boat lengths out into the river. A line is strong between the 2 posts at a height that allows the boat to clear underneath. Blocks are used at each end to make a sort of "clothes line" that can be manually pulled in either direction from shore.

A short tether is tied at a fixed point to the clothes line that has a means to fasten to the bow of the boat.

The process is - you pull the boat up to the shore dock, get off, tie the tether to the bow of the boat, And then run the close line, with the boat, out to the middle of the space between the 2 posts. From there, the boat can swing in any direction about the tether point, underneath the line, and rise and fall with the tide ("clothes line" is always taller than the boat at high tide). To get back on, you simply run the clothes line with the boat attached back over to the shore location for boarding. Granted, this was only with a 3ft tidal range.

Might it be possible to use a similar technique, tying a heavy line up high spanning the entire small bay (or a chord/slice of it) and then tie the boat only to that line at the center point?

With a 3' tide it would work, but unfortunately not at 20' tides.

Let's say there is 15' from the water to the top of the mast, and 20' tides, so the rope spanning the nook would have to be 35' above low tide.

At low tide, when the boat spins on the tether attached to the ropes centre point, the tether from boat to rope wouldn't be at a 45 degree angle, so let's guesstimate an angle where the end of the tether has a swing radius of 30', or 15' from where the tether would be if hanging vertically.

The nook is 115' across and 75' deep.

There would be some stretch in the rope spanning the bay, and it's really hard to pull a rope tight across that size of span...I know this because my wife and I pulled a night time tree climbing eco-warrior raid to hang a large banner between two trees in a park directly across from our towns municipal offices.

Given these back of a napkin guesses the stern of the boat, as it wandered around on the tether, would be about 30' from the back of the nook and 12.5' from either side...but only at low tide. With your 3' tides it would work for sure. At high tide there would be too much tether out.

Will keep the idea though!

 

[Northern Spy]

This fellow managed to find a tiny bay in West Vancouver to tuck his Canoe Cove in. He also used three lines as you are proposing.

 

[Shrew]

For the tides.....how about using Kellets on each line? As the tide rises, so does the kellet. As it lowers, so does your scope. The only part I'd be concerned about is a strong blow in one direction as low tide.

 

[MurrayM]

This fellow managed to find a tiny bay in West Vancouver to tuck his Canoe Cove in. He also used three lines as you are proposing. View attachment 111406

That's hilarious. Looks to be way before photoshop, so either the darkroom guy had some serious printing chops or Canoe Cove's advertising budget had room for helicopter bills.

 

[SteveK]

This fellow managed to find a tiny bay in West Vancouver to tuck his Canoe Cove in. He also used three lines as you are proposing. View attachment 111406

Spy, that is fresh water, the topic here is salt water, pay attention. Is there a story on that photo?

 

[MurrayM]

For the tides.....how about using Kellets on each line? As the tide rises, so does the kellet. As it lowers, so does your scope. The only part I'd be concerned about is a strong blow in one direction as low tide.

I like it. Auto tightening at high tide if there was a weight on each line.

 

[Northern Spy]

That's hilarious. Looks to be way before photoshop, so either the darkroom guy had some serious printing chops or Canoe Cove's advertising budget had room for helicopter bills.

You can see the crane with it's boom down in the background behind the bushes.

No, I don't know the story, but I intend to find out.

My understanding it was a guy named Frank Baker who owned a big restaurant in Vancouver with the James Bond Aston Martin on display. On the roof there was a giant weather vane of himself. He had a statue of David in the ladies washroom, and if one lifted the fig leaf, an alarm and lights would go off in the restaurant.

So a boat in his pool seems to fit.

 

[SteveK]

Murray, what is the advantage of the 3 point tie over 2 point as in fore & aft. Does the third position the boat into the waves/wind? I am more used to small anchorages where many boats and no room to swing stern tie.

 

[MurrayM]

Murray, what is the advantage of the 3 point tie over 2 point as in fore & aft. Does the third position the boat into the waves/wind? I am more used to small anchorages where many boats and no room to swing stern tie.

Good point. Got the idea of bow out in my head, then got tunnel vision and got stuck on it.

Any serious sustained winds would be up & down the lagoon because of steep mountains, so the boat would see side gusts of less force.

Would have to be extra beefy...no room for error!

 

[Xsbank]

I'm surprised that the pool structure could take that weight...

I have a couple of (about) 5' lengths of chain and each has a large gnarly shackle on one end you either drop the shackle in a crack or lay it around a beach rock. At the open end of the chain is a 1" dia piece of old mooring line about 6' long with a nylon eye spliced in its end and there I drop my stern line through it. If I had to, I could pull the line out of the rope and leave the bit of chain behind but usually I am able to retrieve it.

I also installed this: old sailboat sheet winch to help handle the lines. Please ignore the Apple-phone-disease.