For those that think S/S chain is a good idea

[Slider70]

I commercial fished for 29 seasons on my own boats. My rigging on these vessels were all of galvanized steel wire, chain plates and chain. This was similar to the other boats I fished with. One year I purchased a new to me vessel that had stainless steel rigging.

Before my first season was over with this vessel I pulled the stabilizers one day to find one of them held on by only one strand of wire left. All the other strands had broken where the wire was crimped to form an eye on the thimble. This was made up of all stainless material though make and source unknown.

I have never seen this type of failure on the galvanized gear used on my vessels. It makes me wonder if many of the de-mastings on sail boats I've read about may have been the result of this type of stainless steel failure? That if they had used the much less attractive galvanized wire they may not have had these failure? On old time sailing vessel from my youth many wooden sail boats had galvanized rigging though I no longer see that on sailing vessel of today.

I think if you spend enough money you may be able to purchase stainless rigging that is top quality? However, I changed all the rigging on this vessel back to what I knew I could trust. Maybe not pretty but reassuring as I have never seen this type of failure happen with galvanized wire.

 

[twistedtree]

I commercial fished for 29 seasons on my own boats. My rigging on these vessels were all of galvanized steel wire, chain plates and chain. This was similar to the other boats I fished with. One year I purchased a new to me vessel that had stainless steel rigging.

Before my first season was over with this vessel I pulled the stabilizers one day to find one of them held on by only one strand of wire left. All the other strands had broken where the wire was crimped to form an eye on the thimble. This was made up of all stainless material though make and source unknown.

I have never seen this type of failure on the galvanized gear used on my vessels. It makes me wonder if many of the de-mastings on sail boats I've read about may have been the result of this type of stainless steel failure? That if they had used the much less attractive galvanized wire they may not have had these failure? On old time sailing vessel from my youth many wooden sail boats had galvanized rigging though I no longer see that on sailing vessel of today.

I think if you spend enough money you may be able to purchase stainless rigging that is top quality? However, I changed all the rigging on this vessel back to what I knew I could trust. Maybe not pretty but reassuring as I have never seen this type of failure happen with galvanized wire.

That sounds like classic crevice corrosion where stagnant water is trapped in the wire and crimp.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have lived with 1x19 SS for standing rigging for over 3 decades and you’re absolutely right Slider that’s the most common failure point and the most common reason for replacement before failure. Steel is elastic. It will stretch and return to its original shape much better than an elastic rubber band although with a small bit of creep. I’ve used every type of terminal fitting there is but still the point where the wire enters the terminal is where trouble arises. Most brands of attachments are not crimped (look at a Sta-loc or similar). Think the rigging stretches a bit, gets wet then takes microscopic amounts of salt water into the end of the fitting. The turnbuckle maybe chrome plated or a different grade of stainless or something else is going on allowing galvanic action. For blue water voyaging boats it’s common to replace standing rigging at ~8 years. Coastal boats can have it last decades having no where the number of stretch return cycles. You see this with 1x19 wire but not rod. Think rod stretches less but more importantly the junction between terminal and rod is different. Don’t have all those little gaps and the nature of the entrance lets less water in and is better at pushing water out upon loading. In recent years folks are flipping to dyneema variants. It has a lot of creep initially but then pretty stable. It has its problems such as abrasion but given terminal connections are quite different not the same issues as SS wire.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

An under appreciated feature of galvanized chain is that it presents resistance to dragging through the sea bed because it's rough. SS, not so much. It kind of acts like an underwater Jordan drogue with lots of points of drag, each small, but cumulative adding up, and especially so with cross link chain. Underwater photos of ship's ground tackle seems to confirm this. Yes, when it really blows the chain lifts, but in most anchoring situations, it's the chain that is anchoring the boat.

And you could say the exact same thing about SS anchors, which I eschew for that and other reasons. Polished stainless steel looks pretty at the dock however it is slippery, a feature you definitely don't want for an anchor.

Having said all that, there's stainless chain and there's stainless chain. I recommended against stainless chain until I encountered the Ketten Walder brand. I'm now fan of KW stainless chain, for those who have the budget and and need for a long-lasting, corrosion resistant chain that is less prone to castling and cleans easily. While it is pricey, I've recommended the KW chain for about 7 years now and have had no issues across many vessels.

 

[backinblue]

And you could say the exact same thing about SS anchors, which I eschew for that and other reasons. Polished stainless steel looks pretty at the dock however it is slippery, a feature you definitely don't want for an anchor.

Having said all that, there's stainless chain and there's stainless chain. I recommended against stainless chain until I encountered the Ketten Walder brand. I'm now fan of KW stainless chain, for those who have the budget and and need for a long-lasting, corrosion resistant chain that is less prone to castling and cleans easily. While it is pricey, I've recommended the KW chain for about 7 years now and have had no issues across many vessels.

Not to dispute an expert like Steve, but wouldn't a more slippery anchor set easier and bury itself deeper that a rough one? Perhaps that would make it less likely to pull loose than an anchor that did not set as well or deeply in the bottom.

 

[Hippocampus]

Is there any precautions or issues of concern mating a galvi anchor to a KW chain?

 

[backinblue]

Good point Hippo. Walking the docks I see lots of galv chain attached to SS anchors and there is notable corrosion on the chain link at the junction. I don't know that I've observerd any SS chain and galv anchors.

 

[Atlantic Sunshine]

Hi Ted, I know this is of topic but as an avid diver and lover of wrecks I'd love to know what area you were wreck diving and which were your favorite wrecks? I spent a lot of time wreck diving off of Hatteras NC and intend to do a whole lot more. I understand the short scope for getting the divers down to the wreck without a long swim. We weren't using stainless steel but were using what seems like the same basic set up running a granny line from the splash point forward to the anchor line hanging at 15 feet.

Have a great day and sorry for the off topic questions

 

[ronobrien]

Many years ago I had heard the adage to NEVER use SS under water.

 

[rslifkin]

Many years ago I had heard the adage to NEVER use SS under water.

Yet at the same time, SS is common for prop shafts, trim tabs, outboard / sterndrive props, etc.

 

[ronobrien]

Agreed. I don't know why the use is prevalent but issues do seem to occur. Crevice corrosion being the leading issue. Maybe there are different stresses involved. Whatever the case may be, I don't like the idea of trusting it on something as critical as an anchor chain.

 

[Hippocampus]

Wouldn’t consider aquamet 17 through 22 typical stainless nor corten typical steel.

 

[backinblue]

Yet at the same time, SS is common for prop shafts, trim tabs, outboard / sterndrive props, etc.

Good point. In fact, people willing pay a premium for a SS prop.

 

[rgano]

The other side to stainless steel chain:

I used stainless steel chain on my charter boat for 20 years. I carried scuba divers to shipwrecks and short scope (1.25 : 1) grappled the wrecks with 40' of chain and a stainless steel grapnel. Above the chain was 1/2" twisted 3 strand nylon. I did this over 1,000 times in 20 years. Still have the chain and custom built grapnel.

So you ask, why? Drag galvanized chain across the bottom and up the jagged edges of a steel shipwreck and see how long the galvanize lasts. The chain would be rusting on my boat in less than a year.

Never had an issue with the chain, and it saw its share of shock loading with 1.25 : 1 scope. Usually had to cut off the first 50' of rope at the end of each season due to abrasion and shock loading. The short scope was so that divers could descend down to the wrecks, not swim forward hundreds of feet.

I remember buying the chain from Hamilton Marine in Maine 25 years ago at $$$ per foot. Proved to be a very good investment.

Ted

I see why you used SS for you temporary needs in diving. Do you use SS to anchor overnight now?

 

[Simi 60]

Good point. In fact, people willing pay a premium for a SS prop.

People pay a premium for shiny on lots of things.

How do you think they'd sell if the props were painted black like the alloy ones?
Would they still pay the premium for s/s or was it just because it's shiny?

 

[rslifkin]

People pay a premium for shiny on lots of things.

How do you think they'd sell if the props were painted black like the alloy ones?
Would they still pay the premium for s/s or was it just because it's shiny?

For higher power outboards and sterndrives the SS props perform better than the aluminum ones. They're stiffer and can also be made thinner as a result, so you get less blade flex and less blade drag. It's similar to Nibral holding an advantage for inboard props (over bronze) if you've got a high pitch to diameter ratio and are putting a lot of power through the prop.

 

[Simi 60]

For higher power outboards and sterndrives the SS props perform better than the aluminum ones. They're stiffer and can also be made thinner as a result, so you get less blade flex and less blade drag. It's similar to Nibral holding an advantage for inboard props (over bronze) if you've got a high pitch to diameter ratio and are putting a lot of power through the prop.

Yes I know that a S/S prop performs better as do you
But I think the average cashed up knuckle dragger likely buys it because it's shiny

Using an example of cars I have sold in the past.
Same car, dirty I was getting silly offers of $3 hundred
Got out a broom and hose and gave it a 5 minute wash and wiped the dust off the interior and got $4 thousand for it.
Same car, one shiny, one not.

 

[backinblue]

I doubt most people buy SS props for the appearance because they are usually underwater. If you want better performance, you pay the premium. If you are a slow moving trawler, it's not even a consideration. My boat used came with a crappy danforth-like anchor and it dragged more than once. I like to anchor a lot and want confidence in my anchor so at the time I bought an Ultra as I believed it was the best. Today, not sure I would make the same decision but I don't regret it. My rode was also in need of an upgrade so I bought SS chain and 8-plait nylon to not have the corrosion issue. Right or wrong, it works great for me and much better than the original tackle. I'm not a full-time cruiser so I'm sure my chain will liive on long after I'm gone. YMMV.

 

[backinblue]

Also, lots of us take great pride in the appearance of our boats and spend lots of time money and effort on it. Why is it wrong to have a shiny anchor especially if it performs as good or better than some of the uglier old crusty ones?

 

[Simi 60]

I doubt most people buy SS props for the appearance because they are usually underwater.

I actually thought they spent most of their time on a trailer parked in a driveway.

Why is it wrong to have a shiny anchor especially if it performs as good or better than some of the uglier old crusty ones?

If it actually performs as good or better that's fine but does it?

My point about shiny vs actual performance attributes is valid imho

If S/S anchor chain was bought on performance it would be Cromox seen on boats who choose to have a stainless chain

As the majority don't use Cromox, I'd suggest it's appearance , not performance attributes that swayed the purchase.

Same with anchors, plenty of yum cha cast s/s plows and Bruce clones out there
Clearly performance attributes were not a consideration there either.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Not to dispute an expert like Steve, but wouldn't a more slippery anchor set easier and bury itself deeper that a rough one? Perhaps that would make it less likely to pull loose than an anchor that did not set as well or deeply in the bottom.

I always welcome the debate. I haven't tested this scientifically, this is purely anecdotal, but seeing how easily mud washes off of a ss anchor, and chain, by strong suspicion is a ss anchor is more likely to "travel" rathe than set. A side by side test would be interesting.

Taiwan bound.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Is there any precautions or issues of concern mating a galvi anchor to a KW chain?

Not immediate, however, the zinc (and then the steel beneath) on the chain links will tend to protect the stainless anchor, if immersed long enough you will see deterioration, wasting of the galvanizing, often on the first link or two. Whether that occurs from galvanic action, which is slow, or wear, is debatable. It may mean sacrificing a link every few years.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Many years ago I had heard the adage to NEVER use SS under water.

Generally, broadly speaking, for continuous immersion, that is true, especially 304/18-8, particularly fasteners. Bronze is preferred. But, prop shafts are an alloy of stainless steel, so there are exceptions. The KW chain is an exotic alloy and highly corrosion resistant, and it is not permanently immersed.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I doubt most people buy SS props for the appearance because they are usually underwater. If you want better performance, you pay the premium. If you are a slow moving trawler, it's not even a consideration. My boat used came with a crappy danforth-like anchor and it dragged more than once. I like to anchor a lot and want confidence in my anchor so at the time I bought an Ultra as I believed it was the best. Today, not sure I would make the same decision but I don't regret it. My rode was also in need of an upgrade so I bought SS chain and 8-plait nylon to not have the corrosion issue. Right or wrong, it works great for me and much better than the original tackle. I'm not a full-time cruiser so I'm sure my chain will liive on long after I'm gone. YMMV.

But people do buy ss anchors for appearance, trust me I try to talk them out of often. There is no advantage other than appearance. It takes a very long time for a gal anchor to rust to the point it can't be used.

 

[backinblue]

I always welcome the debate. I haven't tested this scientifically, this is purely anecdotal, but seeing how easily mud washes off of a ss anchor, and chain, by strong suspicion is a ss anchor is more likely to "travel" rathe than set. A side by side test would be interesting.

Taiwan bound.

I see your point. Since some brands of anchors are available in either finish, it would be good to see a test done. IMO (again anecdotal) an anchor has to pierce the bottom and bury itself in the seabed so I can imagine a slippery anchor having the advantage in ease of setting. Maybe a rough anchor would hold but not penetrate as far and therefore could be pulled loose easier. In a real soft sloppy mud, I agree, slippery would not be good. But in a firm bottom or even to get through some grass, I could still see slippery working better.

 

[Nightsky]

I didn’t get the galv vs ss debate My understanding of the original post was that both chains were 10 mm ss. One being long link and the other short link with the short link breaking completely and only some welds parting on the long link but the links didn’t open up. I wouldn’t buy any ss chain I could afford so that relegates me to galvanized chain which is a perfectly good option.

 

[Peter B]

I didn’t get the galv vs ss debate My understanding of the original post was that both chains were 10 mm ss. One being long link and the other short link with the short link breaking completely and only some welds parting on the long link but the links didn’t open up. I wouldn’t buy any ss chain I could afford so that relegates me to galvanized chain which is a perfectly good option.

You know - you may be right. Unfortunately, the original post was a copy/paste from another site, so the OP never got back to clarify that fact, but re-reading the copied post, it might well be that both chains were stainless, one short link - one long link.

God knows why you'd have a mix of link sizes on at the same time, as you'd then have to have a gypsy with different teeth each side, but he did. Both were 10mm. So yes, the short link chain failed - or the shackle arrangement, at least, as it came up sans anchor. The long link came up with anchor attached, but many link joins sprung. So yes - seemed to prove the SS chain is less strong, unless of the very expensive kind, according to later posts.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Me thinks the problem is the welding.

SS shaft and screws are machined billet or cast as in 1 piece. Not welded. Every link of a chain has to be welded.

 

[O C Diver]

I see why you used SS for you temporary needs in diving. Do you use SS to anchor overnight now?

No.
A diver always released the dive boat anchor ( it was chained to the wreck to keep it from accidentally releasing), so there wasn't a question of it being recovered. SS chain reminds me of titanium dive knives. I would tell customers to buy a moderate priced dive knife so that you would be willing to leave it if it fell in a crevice from which you couldn't recover it. While nobody wants to cut off their anchor and chain, there may be situations where trying to recover a hopelessly fouled anchor rode, puts you at greater risk. My primary anchor and 400' of chain probably has a replacement value of $2,000. In SS, the price probably needs another zero. That's probably the point where I stop thinking rationally.

Ted

 

[CharlieO.]

Interesting perspective Ted.