Snubber for Mahalo

[JustBob]

So I learned a lot in the other recent thread on snubbers. I'm going the simple route and will use a single length of triple strand. I'll either tie a knot (rolling hitch seems popular) or use a soft shackle as many do, for attaching to the anchor chain.

The chain is 1/2" on the huge anchor, and 3/8" on the big anchor. (note huge anchor and chain not shown in below photos)

I went to the boat yesterday to see where I could affix the snubbber line to the boat. Was kind of hoping I could use part of the big stainless guide. But after seeing it, I don't think that is the way to go. Rather, mount a cleat on the winch/anchor platform (which is solid beyond belief) seems like the way to go, as shown below.

If I do one cleat in the middle (which I would prefer just to keep things simple), I can route the snubber line to either anchor. But of course this creates a chafe point. But OTOH we are just talking about 30' of triple strand, so no big deal to replace. Here in the PNW we are not talking about riding out hurricanes and such.

I would not want to place the cleat under the anchor chain, because if the chain somehow caught the cleat with the winch pulling that would be a disaster.

I could do two cleats, thus reducing the chafing situation quite a bit.

So I'm asking the brain trust here for advice.

 

[stubones99]

Use an Mantus Bridle and tie off to the two forward cleats on either side of the bow. That way, you have stretch, and keep the boat from hunting in wind, and if chafing cuts one line, you still have another leg of the bridge. You have an ultra anchor? I think Ultra also makes a chain grab too...

https://www.mantusmarine.com/snubbersbridles/

 

[JustBob]

Use an Mantus Bridle and tie off to the two forward cleats on either side of the bow. That way, you have stretch, and keep the boat from hunting in wind, and if chafing cuts one line, you still have another leg of the bridge. You have an ultra anchor? I think Ultra also makes a chain grab too...

https://www.mantusmarine.com/snubbersbridles/

They do. Reading all the posts in the other thread makes me think this simpler approach is enough.

How does the bridle help the boat from being sailed around by the wind? In the other thread we had some people saying that, and another saying it sailed more. The Endurance's obviously have a high wind profile so if there was real evidence that the bridle reduced sailing around, I would be more interested.

 

[dhays]

Bob, I think the central cleat would be good. However, how about a photo that shows the entire anchor pulpit? The snubber line may not run through the chain stopper but from the cleat to the roller. This would reduce the chaffe.

 

[JustBob]

Unfortunately I don't have the perfect shot to show you Dave. But here are two I do have if they help?

 

[sunchaser]

Bob

We've used a bridle for years. No issues. We have used a single one following the chain, again no issues. Retrieval of the bridle is easier.

Why not try two lines on a bridle scenario and a single line as well. Then you'll have the answers. For the single, a stout line joining the two forward cleats can be your single tie for this trial.

How do same brand vessels similar to yours do it? One strong bollard aft of windlass is common and maybe better than deck cleats.

 

[Delfin]

Can you mount the central cleat athwartship? You would have a fairer lead to each anchor that way.

 

[JustBob]

Can you mount the central cleat athwartship? You would have a fairer lead to each anchor that way.

I could, and you would be right about the "fairness." But what about the load? The line would not be pulling on the entire length of the cleat, but rather mostly the width? Doesn't seem as strong?

 

[Delfin]

I could, and you would be right about the "fairness." But what about the load? The line would not be pulling on the entire length of the cleat, but rather mostly the width? Doesn't seem as strong?

If it is backed, I can't see how there would be a difference. In both cases you are relying on the shear strength of two to four bolts.

 

[FlyWright]

Of course, your boat is a WHOLE different scale than mine so this might not matter, but my cleat is directly inline with my chain and I've never had an issue with slack chain grabbing the cleat.

I would place the cleat where abrasion is minimum and free space around the cleat allows room to work without knocking knuckles on nearby components.

 

[JustBob]

Of course, your boat is a WHOLE different scale than mine so this might not matter, but my cleat is directly inline with my chain and I've never had an issue with slack chain grabbing the cleat.

I would place the cleat where abrasion is minimum and free space around the cleat allows room to work without knocking knuckles on nearby components.

Dude, that's beautiful! Yes I like the idea of having some working room.

 

[stubones99]

Bob,

Isn't this pretty close to yours?

A bridle would hook the anchor chain off the bow and each leg would come aboard the boat via the hawse pipes and hook around the cleat. That's one reason why there are two just aft of the chain lockers.

By having two separate legs off the bridle on each side of the boat, it will tend to head into the wind and not sail as much.

 

[dhays]

That is a really nice setup Bob. Take a look at it, but I think that if you put the cleat where you indicated on your photo, that the snubber would go from the cleat into the roller and bypass the the chain lock. The roller won’t chaffe the line like the chain lock would and it doesn’t look like there is any risk of the line getting jammed in the side of the roller. The other advantage is that when you use the windlass to bring the chain in, the snubber won’t be running through the chain lock with the chain.

BTW, I like Delfin’s idea of mounting the cleat the other way IF it will be strong enough. I’m not sure, but I think that the cleat would be stronger if it is mounted inline with the chain.

BTW, the other advantage to using a single snubber instead of a bridle is that it is easy to attach to the chain. When I attache the bridle, I have to feed the line from forward of the anchor keeper on the roller back towards the windlass.

Edit: I like the bridle better than the snubber, despite what I just wrote above. If you mount the cleat where you are anticipating, you can use it for the snubber but you can still use a bridle when you wish. I will use a single snubber when just on a lunch hook. The cleat would also be handy if you ever had to take the strain off the windless. I was looking at the locks you have for the anchors and it appears that they lock the anchor in place and aren’t a chain lock.

 

[dhays]

Of course, your boat is a WHOLE different scale than mine so this might not matter, but my cleat is directly inline with my chain and I've never had an issue with slack chain grabbing the cleat.



I would place the cleat where abrasion is minimum and free space around the cleat allows room to work without knocking knuckles on nearby components.

My concern with that is cleating the line underneath the chain. I would not want to have to reach under the chain to tie it off the cleat.

 

[klee wyck]

Dude, that's beautiful!

That is what I was thinking....I thought Al was a fisherman, turns out he is a yachtie! Spit shine!

 

[FlyWright]

That is what I was thinking....I thought Al was a fisherman, turns out he is a yachtie! Spit shine!

Here's the fisherman version after several anchorings chasing sturgeon.

 

[O C Diver]

Bob, here is my setup:



I only have one cleat. While there is some stretch and minor rubbing on the bow roller frame, it's not significant. The other point worth noting, if you cleat the snubber line off, you can add or subtract length to avoid rubbing in the same area. I view the snubber line as a consumable and feel I will replace it due to diminish stretch long before the chaffing wear would be an issue.

Ted

 

[JustBob]

Bob, here is my setup:

View attachment 77458

I only have one cleat. While there is some stretch and minor rubbing on the bow roller frame, it's not significant. The other point worth noting, if you cleat the snubber line off, you can add or subtract length to avoid rubbing in the same area. I view the snubber line as a consumable and feel I will replace it due to diminish stretch long before the chaffing wear would be an issue.

Ted

Yes, this is really how I am viewing it.

 

[JustBob]

That is a really nice setup Bob. Take a look at it, but I think that if you put the cleat where you indicated on your photo, that the snubber would go from the cleat into the roller and bypass the the chain lock. The roller won’t chaffe the line like the chain lock would and it doesn’t look like there is any risk of the line getting jammed in the side of the roller. The other advantage is that when you use the windlass to bring the chain in, the snubber won’t be running through the chain lock with the chain.

BTW, I like Delfin’s idea of mounting the cleat the other way IF it will be strong enough. I’m not sure, but I think that the cleat would be stronger if it is mounted inline with the chain.

BTW, the other advantage to using a single snubber instead of a bridle is that it is easy to attach to the chain. When I attache the bridle, I have to feed the line from forward of the anchor keeper on the roller back towards the windlass.

Edit: I like the bridle better than the snubber, despite what I just wrote above. If you mount the cleat where you are anticipating, you can use it for the snubber but you can still use a bridle when you wish. I will use a single snubber when just on a lunch hook. The cleat would also be handy if you ever had to take the strain off the windless. I was looking at the locks you have for the anchors and it appears that they lock the anchor in place and aren’t a chain lock.

Right, there isn't any chain lock. Mine is the first boat they have done this way. Prior they had a "claw" that was on a turnbuckle, one end mounted to the platform. Kind of a pain.

And yes, for the cost of a cleat, I can begin with a single snubber and then if I ever want to play with a bridle, I can.

 

[Shrew]

I wouldn't want to run the snubber over the bow pulpit. There is too much force on the pulpit. I had a friend shear a bolt and bend a second on his bow roller when we got caught in a microburst a few weekends ago.

I prefer that the bow roller and pulpit be used for storage, deployment and retrieval. The loads go on the snubbers to the bow cleats.

A snubber won't help with sailing whether it is over the bow roller or on the bow cleats. Two snubbers (one on each cleat) prevents the boat from yawing, if you only had a snubber on one side.

We use a mantus chain hook with connected to two snubbers and cleat tie the snubbers to the bow rollers.

 

[dhays]

I wouldn't want to run the snubber over the bow pulpit. There is too much force on the pulpit. I had a friend shear a bolt and bend a second on his bow roller when we got caught in a microburst a few weekends ago.

I have had the same concern, but was never sure if the concerns were valid or not. That is one of the reasons I’ve been using a bridle. However, in a real blow, the scope is going to be about 7:1 and their won’t be as much down angle on the snubber. Still, I like the bridle.

 

[boathealer]

I prefer that the bow roller and pulpit be used for storage, deployment and retrieval. The loads go on the snubbers to the bow cleats.

+1

 

[O C Diver]

I wouldn't want to run the snubber over the bow pulpit. There is too much force on the pulpit. I had a friend shear a bolt and bend a second on his bow roller when we got caught in a microburst a few weekends ago.

That's a too short scope issue and an insufficient snubber length. Bet he wasn't running 7:1 scope. Before you tell me 7:1 isn't necessary, your friend is proof that it's prudent.

A snubber won't help with sailing whether it is over the bow roller or on the bow cleats. Two snubbers (one on each cleat) prevents the boat from yawing, .

Two snubbers don't prevent sailing at anchor. Spent a year and a half trying to make it work. My boat sails less with a single line over the bow roller. The pivot point is probably 7 or 8' further forward.

Ted

 

[JustBob]

Not casting aspersions on your friend's pulpit, but the Hampton setup seems pretty darn stout. I think the line would break before damage could happen to this gear.

 

[JustBob]

Dhayes had mentioned a pic with the entire platform. Was on the boat yesterday, with a wide angle lens (!) and was able to get the shots.

 

[dhays]

Great shot Bob. Looks like plenty of room for a cleat between the two chains forward of the windlass. I think it would work in that position to secure a snubber for either anchor.

 

[rgano]

I am fond of using a length of 3-strand nylon with the last 4-6 feet having the three strands unlaid and then braided (same as a woman's hair braid). You will find this arrangement MUCH, MUCH "grippier" than the original 3-strand on chain OR nylon rode.

 

[MichaelB1969]

Use an Mantus Bridle and tie off to the two forward cleats on either side of the bow. That way, you have stretch, and keep the boat from hunting in wind, and if chafing cuts one line, you still have another leg of the bridge. You have an ultra anchor? I think Ultra also makes a chain grab too...

https://www.mantusmarine.com/snubbersbridles/

Same here. Works great.

 

[rgano]

Unfortunately, no bridle combination has ever stopped either this boat or my Grand Banks 42 from hunting and over the place. Finally gave it up as a bad idea and am far happier and less complicated with a single snubber.

 

[JustBob]

Update. The commissioning guys grabbed a couple of cleats from Fisheries. This is a large cleat, 8". For this application, I feel the mounting holes are "tiny." Looks like it would take a 1/4" bolt, not sure, I didn't measure.

But I just don't like the feeling of a cleat we install here being the interface between 500 or more pounds of anchor/chain and 120,000 lbs of boat.

If I had it to do over again I would have the factory add a Samson post.

So I'm going to go back to the dual snubber idea since I have great hawse holes with integrated cleats.