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Old 12-23-2020, 04:29 PM   #21
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Scratch awl started straight. More like a 45 now. Sort of like my wire cutters that now make a dandy wire stripper every since I snipped a live 120vac wire.

If the sockets are SnapOn or MAC, must be mine. Otherwise, don't bother. I just use them as plumb-bob weights anyway. Come to think of it, just the other day, Comodave showed a socket being used as a spacer in a jury-rigged puller to yank a the coupling off a shaft......must be mine too!

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Sorry, with a few exceptions, Craftsman is my brand of choice. Appreciate the quality of Mac and SnapOn, not willing to pay the price or have to fight to get tools exchanged. Never an argument at the Craftsman register.

Happy Holidays Peter

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Old 12-23-2020, 11:58 PM   #22
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Hammerlocks are 3 times the strength of shackles, and fit inside chain links where shackles can't go, they don't require stupid wire safety ties.. they never come loose. You need a punch and hammer to break it open, and it always breaks free. As a commercial trawler, we NEVER used shackles, too weak for their size and wear out fast. You can even get them in stainless I see. They are 3 times better than a shackle, or more. They are in another league. Try your local commercial fishing place, don't buy China crap.


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Old 12-24-2020, 05:28 AM   #23
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If every piece of my ground tackle is WAY stronger than the expected breakout pull of my anchor...and that is only in situations I will probably never be in.....


Why would I see the need to keep using stronger and stronger line, chain, shackles, swivels, etc...etc....?


The real holy grail in my experience is to know exactly where and what kind of bottom my anchor is in and for it to be able to hold in the conditions that may hit.


The tackle is the easy part.
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Old 12-24-2020, 06:11 AM   #24
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Hammerlocks are 3 times the strength of shackles, and fit inside chain links where shackles can't go, they don't require stupid wire safety ties.. they never come loose. You need a punch and hammer to break it open, and it always breaks free. As a commercial trawler, we NEVER used shackles, too weak for their size and wear out fast. You can even get them in stainless I see. They are 3 times better than a shackle, or more. They are in another league.
While these look interesting, I'm not finding them at 3 times the working load compared to a Crosby load rated shackle. How do you determine deterioration on the locking pin without disassembling it? How do you determine when to replace them?

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Old 12-24-2020, 10:14 AM   #25
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The shackle and hammerlock can't be compared by size. The shackle has to be downsized to fit the pin into a chain link. Easy to show, hard to post. (maybe I'll make video someday) A hammerlock that fits through the same link is many times stronger than the shackle that fits. In our service, shackle pins bent, and were next to impossible to back the pin out. I've see a hammerlock pin break, it's rare, but never fail. Multiple connection points.
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Old 12-24-2020, 10:22 AM   #26
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For anchoring, at least with G43 or weaker chain, a 1 size up high test shackle will have a rated working load higher than the chain. In my case, I'm using 5/16" G43 chain (3900 lbs WLL / 11700 lbs UTS). The shackle at the anchor end is a 3/8" Crosby G209A. The pin of the 3/8" shackle fits through the chain just fine. Shackle is rated for 4400 lbs WLL / 22000 lbs UTS, so significantly stronger than the chain.



It's only once you get into G70 chain that shackle strength can become an issue unless you use oversized end links to allow a bigger shackle.
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Old 12-24-2020, 10:29 AM   #27
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OK, I'll bow out, it likely to never be an issue for this fleet. As I switch over from work to pleasure boats, I fall back on what kept us alive and productive in another sorta world. I'm learning it doesn't always transfer directly.
Merry Christmas to all, here's to great coming new year.
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Old 12-24-2020, 10:35 AM   #28
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OK, I'll bow out, it likely to never be an issue for this fleet. As I switch over from work to pleasure boats, I fall back on what kept us alive and productive in another sorta world. I'm learning it doesn't always transfer directly.
Merry Christmas to all, here's to great coming new year.

A lot of the concepts transfer, but sometimes the functional requirements or the practicalities of handling a given type of equipment are different. Such as anchoring with a windlass and chain locker vs a big drum winch. Either one can work, but depending on the boat design, you may be pushed to one or the other (and for recreational stuff, it's usually not the drum winch). And each design requires or allows significantly different equipment selection for ground tackle.
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Old 12-24-2020, 10:45 AM   #29
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Great point Rslifkin. When I first saw my boat, I was so attracted to the workboat soul. Made my transition much more familiar.

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Old 12-24-2020, 11:47 AM   #30
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TCap,
Beautiful pice of hardware .. your shackle.

When I bought my 2nd XYZ anchor they asked me if I wanted an extra shackle. I said give me three. The man there said they were much stronger than hardware store items. Still have at least two.

Does the red paint mean a certain size bolt or a certian strength of the bolt and perhaps (but not likely) the shackle.
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Old 12-24-2020, 12:13 PM   #31
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Even if it did, it would do so as a result of the change in tide, not wind, which would be a very slow motion event. Wind rarely shifts at high speed 180 degrees.
We had this happen this summer and it was a bit scary. We had been pretty much in the same place for about 3d when all of a sudden the wind shifted and increased to 25-30kt for about 40 min. we shot right across in a straight line!

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Old 12-24-2020, 01:09 PM   #32
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We had this happen this summer and it was a bit scary. We had been pretty much in the same place for about 3d when all of a sudden the wind shifted and increased to 25-30kt for about 40 min. we shot right across in a straight line!

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Yikes! Did your anchor reset? What kind/size anchor, depth, boat, etc?

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Old 12-24-2020, 01:12 PM   #33
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TCap,
Beautiful pice of hardware .. your shackle.

When I bought my 2nd XYZ anchor they asked me if I wanted an extra shackle. I said give me three. The man there said they were much stronger than hardware store items. Still have at least two.

Does the red paint mean a certain size bolt or a certian strength of the bolt and perhaps (but not likely) the shackle.
That's a pretty carnivorous looking anchor. Is that your Sarca?

Shackle looks beefy, and anchor looks oversized especially for your W30. While not an issue for you, do you have concerns about side loading on a shackle affixed like this?
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Old 12-24-2020, 01:45 PM   #34
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Any anchor will fail to hold or reset if you make the artificial conditions severe enough.

Ted
Yeah but wouldn't you prefer the anchor that works better, than worse, in severe conditions? That is what Steve's tests are designed to illuminate.
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Old 12-24-2020, 01:51 PM   #35
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DDW - that's certainly how I read Panope's tests. I don't know of better testing methodologies out there. I general, I find Panope's information helpful in selecting an anchor.
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Old 12-24-2020, 02:29 PM   #36
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Peter,
Shackle is small.
Anchor is 18lbs. About right for Willy.
I don’t think side loading is an issue. After all how much can most anchors resist?
If an anchor can take 500lbs dead ahead it will be likely under 100lbs at 90 degrees. Much much less at least. Yes the shackle can’t hold as much sideways but it shouldn’t ever need to.

Re this XYZ anchor there’s 4 high strength countersunk socket head screws holding the shank to the fluke. There’s been no hint of failure in this rig. And this anchor (18lbs) held our boat in a 50+ knots in a summer gale. I needed to reset due to another boat dragging into us. No anchor problem at all. And no shackle problem either.
The saw tooth edges are supposed to be for weed. But the toothy design may help on hard bottoms too.

Re Panope;
I find his vids very useable but not representative.

Small engine/big anchor
Soft mud/sandy bottom
Any anchor not setting in this is a nonsetting anchor.
But seeing the “body language” as it goes about it’s work is golden.

But his tests do focus on setting. High holding power is important. But what anchor lacks hhp? Not long ago there were anchors lacking hhp but now they are easy to find so one’s shopping efforts should be directed at other attributes of anchor performance. Steve’s tests led us away form the ultimate holding power feeding frenzy that was going on before.
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Old 12-24-2020, 02:55 PM   #37
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I agree with you on side loading, but still, have seen many pictures of bent shanks. Maybe the of jams in rocks, but I wonder if there is are scenarios where high winds can whip a boat to and fro with sufficient force.

Steve's work with anchors is the most in depth I've ever seen - galvanizing, tip weight, slot size, everything. Maybe there's much more to do. I can't imagine what. But maybe.
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Old 12-24-2020, 03:11 PM   #38
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Does the red paint mean a certain size bolt or a certian strength of the bolt and perhaps (but not likely) the shackle.
The red paint on the bolt means it is a "Crosby" shackle.
Other manufacturers have different colour combinations.
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Old 12-24-2020, 03:28 PM   #39
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Sorry, with a few exceptions, Craftsman is my brand of choice. Appreciate the quality of Mac and SnapOn, not willing to pay the price or have to fight to get tools exchanged. Never an argument at the Craftsman register.

Happy Holidays Peter

Ted
Christmas story:

My Craftsman socket set, one of those plastic boxes with ~150 pieces inside, was several years, maybe decades old, had lived in the bilge of two sailboats before getting healthier digs in Retreat, so bore the rust and flaking chrome proudly. One or two important sizes of both sockets and open end wrenches were missing and the plastic latches on the box were long gone.
I took the whole unsightly mess in to the local Sears store on a busy pre-Christmas day to see if I could find the replacement pieces. After looking carefully at everything on the shelves, without the success I had thought was going to be easy, The department manager, who had been watching me, grabbed a new kit of roughly the right size and told me to take it, as the Craftsman guarantee would cover the replacement, due to the rusty, flaking general appearance. I was thrilled! He wanted me and my unsightly box of their house brand out of sight quickly. I has happy to oblige.

Too bad Sears is gone, and with it the source of Craftsman tools.
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Old 12-24-2020, 04:02 PM   #40
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Greg,
I suspected but now I know. The shackle has lettering embossed on it’s sides. And I would imagine the shackle and bolt are rated separately but they need compatible threads and size. But it could be otherwise.

Peter where’d ya see bent shackles? Never seen one in my life.
Must be cheap hardware store shackles. I may be correct in saying many to most are unrated.
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