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Old 06-23-2018, 11:37 PM   #41
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I drop anchor (Chinese version of a Bruce), and every time the current or wind sets the anchor securely. Good mud in the San Francisco estuary!
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:53 AM   #42
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How do you know it’s secure Mark? Ever hooked a tree or log?

MYTravler wrote;
“I have an all-chain rode, but contrary to conventional wisdom, do not experience any shock/jerk, even without a snubber. It seems that the catenary absorbs the shock very nicely.”

I’ve been think’in that all along w the large amount of snubber talk recently. But w/o much chain (a boat length or less) the rode is the best snubber known. But I agree w you re the above.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:32 AM   #43
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When the wind gets high enough, I can hear my snubbers creaking and groaning. I would not want to put those loads on the windlass.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:50 AM   #44
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It seems that the catenary absorbs the shock very nicely.
The chain catenary will absorb the shock well. Until it doesn't. In ordinary conditions there is not enough surge energy to straighten the chain. In really strong storm conditions there is, then you want something stretchy somewhere in the system. Rigging the snubber in 50 knots and a seaway at 3 AM in driving rain on rare occasion, has to be traded off with doing it every time at anchor/cocktail hour.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:13 AM   #45
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The chain catenary will absorb the shock well. Until it doesn't. In ordinary conditions there is not enough surge energy to straighten the chain. In really strong storm conditions there is, then you want something stretchy somewhere in the system. Rigging the snubber in 50 knots and a seaway at 3 AM in driving rain on rare occasion, has to be traded off with doing it every time at anchor/cocktail hour.
Your assuming all vessels need snubbers 100% of time. A good chain stopper suffices for many under most conditions. The stopper can be a short line to a cleat, locking pawl on horizontal windlass or deck fitting with a bolt through the chain.

I am currently surrounded by all manners of commercial vessels with nice stout deck mounted horizontal windlass drums and nary a “snubber” arrangement in sight. Possibly Eric is correct, the snubber discussion is a new phenomena brought about by flimsy fore decks and light weight vertical capstans that many of us utilize.

This BS aside, selecting a secure anchorage when big blows are predicted is sure a nice attraction of SE Alaska.
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:38 PM   #46
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Sunchaser,
Perhaps brought on mostly as a few people mentioned it and then a whole bunch thought the old salts all use snubbers. Instant buzz word. All ya gotta do is flip it out and all think you’re a sage old salt.
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:26 PM   #47
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I am a bit confused and I have heard this scenario from others. Where they set their anchor with a short scope and then let out more chain once the anchor is in the sea bottom. That really makes no sense to me if anything you would set your anchor with a long scope they make sure it digs in and then if you need to shorten up the scope
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:42 PM   #48
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I agree basically w you motiom,
But many anchors perform better at long scope and many at short scope too. And many in-between. And since few of us know our own anchors in this way and personally I know of no way to “look it up”. Good for independent folks but very frustrating for black and white or bythe book types. One can (over time) notice when their anchor performs less than perfect at various scopes. Every time you anchor it’s an opportunity to learn about your anchor.

So if it makes no sense to you perhaps you should experiment during benign conditions so you’re better prepared when things get nasty. I do know of one anchor that during anchor tests did better at shorter scope than longer.
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:42 AM   #49
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[QUOTE=dhays;675358]Steve, I’m confused by your bridle vs snubber. You have a bridle that you use to set the anchor, then do you remove the bridle and attach a snubber? Can you describe a bit what you use as a bridle and then what you use as a snubber? Why the snubber instead of the bridle? Why set with the bridle and not the snubber?

Let me try to explain (probably easier to do than explain. If I had better skills on attaching diagrams on this list I could draw it.): To set the anchor, I have a specific line for this process. One end has a loop that I attach the starboard forward large cleat. There is a loop (made with a knot) at a specific location on the line. The knotted loop goes over the port forward large cleat. The line that extends beyond the knotted loop is then secured the exact middle of the section of the line between the two loops using a rolling hitch. The bitter end of the line then can extend directly next to the chain in the bow roller slot. I attach the bitter end to the chain using a rolling hitch while in the bow roller slot.

The distance between the two loops in the line is long enough to allow the loop to be just forward of the windlass. When setting the anchor and pulling the rode tight with the engines, I feed a little more chain out until the line is tight and and the chain from the windlass to the rolling hitch is relaxed (no tension on the windlass). I continue to back down until set. The rolling hitch is attached to the chain so that when pulling taunt, the knot is just forward of the bow roller. When I feel the set is secure, I go to neutral and reverse the windlass for only about a foot or so to untie the rolling hitch.

I remove the “setting line” (whatever one wants to call this) and install the snubber which attaches to the same cleats, goes through the anti-chafing rail chocks, under each side of the rails, and then attach to the chain using a rolling hitch (about the same place where I attached the setting line). I feed out the chain until the snubber is taking the tension and the chain aft of the rolling hitch is relaxed.

Okay, why two lines that seem to do the same thing? The “setting line” is shorter and follows through the bow roller exactly along the same path as the chain. It is easy to retreive and release. The snubber bridle (if that is what some would call this) is longer and of course the two sides do not follow along the chain in the bow roller. If something happens that I do not like in the setting process, this “setting line” is much easier to remove or re-adjust.

Hope this makes sense. Works for me quite nicely.

Steve
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:07 AM   #50
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Steve Bedford wrote;
“If I had better skills on attaching diagrams on this list I could draw it.”

Cameras are so good now at short focal length when I really want to post a drawing I get out a 8x11 tablet and a black marking pen. Make the drawing using the whole 8x11 page. Put it on my desktop and post it as a picture. It’s so simple I don’t know why I don’t do it more often.

Just did this in about two minutes w my 14” i-pad. I do have trouble getting pics oriented right w my i-pad. Here’s another I drew for a boating forum on FB.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:56 AM   #51
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How do you know it’s secure Mark? Ever hooked a tree or log?

MYTravler wrote;
“I have an all-chain rode, but contrary to conventional wisdom, do not experience any shock/jerk, even without a snubber. It seems that the catenary absorbs the shock very nicely.”

I’ve been think’in that all along w the large amount of snubber talk recently. But w/o much chain (a boat length or less) the rode is the best snubber known. But I agree w you re the above.
Catenary does supply all the shock absorbtion you need. Until it starts blowing, then it fails, which is one main reason why people use snub lines.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:07 AM   #52
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I am a bit confused and I have heard this scenario from others. Where they set their anchor with a short scope and then let out more chain once the anchor is in the sea bottom. That really makes no sense to me if anything you would set your anchor with a long scope they make sure it digs in and then if you need to shorten up the scope
Others may have a different take, but the rationale is that if an anchor is "set" at short scope, it will likely only improve its set with more scope. If it is set with long scope, you have no guarantee it will remain set when you then shorten scope.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:29 AM   #53
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[QUOTE=Steve Bedford;676500]
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Okay, why two lines that seem to do the same thing? The “setting line” is shorter and follows through the bow roller exactly along the same path as the chain. It is easy to retreive and release. The snubber bridle (if that is what some would call this) is longer and of course the two sides do not follow along the chain in the bow roller. If something happens that I do not like in the setting process, this “setting line” is much easier to remove or re-adjust.



Hope this makes sense. Works for me quite nicely.



Steve

Makes perfect sense, thanks. I do something very similar. I use a short line that has a chain hook spliced on the end. The opposite end is cleated to a cleat next to the windlass. This is what I use for setting the anchor and securing the anchor while under way.

Once the anchor is set, I take off this time, and attached a bridle.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:29 AM   #54
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Setting Anchor

Eric wrote: “Cameras are so good now at short focal length when I really want to post a drawing I get out a 8x11 tablet and a black marking pen. Make the drawing using the whole 8x11 page. Put it on my desktop and post it as a picture. It’s so simple I don’t know why I don’t do it more often.“

Here goes. Hope the diagram/pic uploaded.

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Old 06-27-2018, 09:31 AM   #55
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Your assuming all vessels need snubbers 100% of time. A good chain stopper suffices for many under most conditions. The stopper can be a short line to a cleat, locking pawl on horizontal windlass or deck fitting with a bolt through the chain.

I am currently surrounded by all manners of commercial vessels with nice stout deck mounted horizontal windlass drums and nary a “snubber” arrangement in sight. Possibly Eric is correct, the snubber discussion is a new phenomena brought about by flimsy fore decks and light weight vertical capstans that many of us utilize.

This BS aside, selecting a secure anchorage when big blows are predicted is sure a nice attraction of SE Alaska.
It's less of an issue with Delfin, but we started using a snub line on our sailboat so we didn't have to listen to the chain grinding through the night. Not a fad, just a desire for a good night's sleep.

This is a pretty good description of our technique, and rationale. I'd use a longer snubber that Novak does, but the principle is the same.

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Old 06-27-2018, 09:41 AM   #56
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Setting Anchor

Snubber diagram/Pic:

Steve
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:44 AM   #57
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Setting Anchor

Snubber pic/diagram:
Hopefully this time it works!

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Old 06-27-2018, 10:31 AM   #58
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It's less of an issue with Delfin, but we started using a snub line on our sailboat so we didn't have to listen to the chain grinding through the night. Not a fad, just a desire for a good night's sleep.
Good post Carl. I’d guess this mirrors most of the thinking on this thread. Certainly the case with us.

Anchoring techniques in higher winds with +5 foot surge is a whole different story. The South Pacific Islands being a good example. On power boats in the high surge waters a well oversized anchor and chain and heavy duty chain stopper is the preference of many. It would seem that chafe issues largely negate the use of a traditional (description varies) rope snubber unless backed up by a stout chain stopper.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:41 AM   #59
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Good post Carl. I’d guess this mirrors most of the thinking on this thread. Certainly the case with us.

Anchoring techniques in higher winds with +5 foot surge is a whole different story. The South Pacific Islands being a good example. On power boats in the high surge waters a well oversized anchor and chain and heavy duty chain stopper is the preference of many. It would seem that chafe issues largely negate the use of a traditional (description varies) rope snubber unless backed up by a stout chain stopper.
Delfin has a very stout top roller the snub line goes over, with the chain feeding out through a lower roller, so snub line chafe over that top roller is not an issue. If a vessel doesn't have strong attachment points for a snub line that give a fair lead, IMHO one should be provided. Chafe is one of the reasons why I don't much care for bridles, since chafe is much harder to prevent.

You kind of see the roller setup in this picture, taken before I put the masts back on, or completed the interior work.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:03 AM   #60
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Delfin,
I wasn’t saying the snubber was a fad. Just the word and talking about it on TF.

That would make a better avatar (pic in your post #59) than your current avatar. It looks a bit like your boat is bent down in the middle. I’ll bet you’ve got much better pics than 59 too.
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