second anchor deployment

[Phil23]

OK need input in the endeavour to quell a Christmas day debate which is getting a little hysterical on the correct way to deploy an second or storm anchor:-


Run second anchor straight in line with your primary anchor


Run second anchor in a V formation of each quarter



Run for the rum if you gonna need a third anchor it will give more comfort


All methods and opinions either way

 

[mvweebles]

Practical Sailor did a comparison a few years ago. Sort of depends.....but in general, v-anchor has better holding power than inline. Inline do fine when direction of pull is uniform. In real life, that doesn't happen except in rivers and such. Anchored boats 'sail' at anchor.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/tandem-anchoring

Graphic from the article shows the comparison.

Peter

 

[O C Diver]

Get a storm anchor and be able to deploy 300' of chain.

If you're going to deploy 2 anchors in a storm, at some point, all the load will be on one chain. Why not have enough chain and a stout anchor so that the lifting of the chain off the bottom softens the shock loading on the anchor set. Several times I've anchored 12:1 in 20' of water after burying the anchor. That and a good storm snubber made for a very tolerable experience.

BTW, if you think it's likely you may need to deploy a second anchor, your primary isn't big enough.

Ted

 

[Comodave]

And with one anchor it can’t get fouled with the second anchor.

 

[Cigatoo]

Agree with the above. Deployment of a 2nd anchor is too complicated for me. Just asking for trouble. Although I do have a CQR as a backup.

 

[psneeld]

I am not sure any one answer EVER answers a question in boating.

Too many think one size fits all and all I can say is I disagree to any one answer to a broad question.

Each new level of experience should (but for some it never seems to) teach us the little intricacies that demand approaching old problems with new resolutions.

I believe that the inline approach can be best with the right combo of anchors in the right situation, the "V" can be better in others. then there are times when the triple danforth spread may be best....and many times anchoring could be the worst idea to survive.

A huge factor is what bottoms can you have to anchor? What kind of protected water is nearby, is one better protected from wind while another from waves/surge?

Without a decent feel for all the options, one is best to seek safe "mooring" of any sort until they get to each level.

Without specifics, I really can't venture a guess.... it's just too broad a question.

 

[Iggy]

When I bought my boat it came with a 44lb Rocna on my 40' trawler. I sold is and went with a 55lb Rocna. The thought was, if I ever get into a storm I will need it!

Years ago, we went out on a claim day. There were mentions of thunderstorms but we have seen this in the past. In the N.E. there generally very random, small in size and short lived. We saw the storm coming and going over the town where our slip is. So we decided to stay put on the anchor and let the storm pass. Where we were, it was fairly claim. I turned the radar on and saw that the storm made a 90deg turn and headed for us. I put out my whole rode and started the engine (just in case I needed it). The winds hit at lest 60knots, the rain coming down hard. I few boats there anchor was not holding. Mine was, thank god! The storm lasted about 10 long minutes. I bought an anchor the next size up from what I really needed.

 

[Jc180]

As others have said, a second anchor risks tangling with first and if for any reason need to retrieve anchors in storm, adds a dangerous dimension. But if do deploy a storm anchor, set in direction of expected wind shift, say To NW if a cold front. And as Ted said, all load will be on storm anchor as storm passes. Lastly if in an Anchorage with other boats, a second anchor alters your swing pattern with respect to other boats creating another hazard.

For these reasons, rarely see a second anchor set when out cruising.

 

[Nomad Willy]

There are places and times for multiple anchors. All in unusual circumstances and if you’re not in one then think one anchor.

There’s several to many really good anchors. If you were to to scrutinize numerous anchor tests and pick an anchor that has top scores in several tests w/o any manufacturer input you most likely find an anchor that is as close to best as possible.

And when you shop avoid anchors that always seem to score best. Reason is that if you pick an anchor that way you’ll probably find one w some faults. Designers of mechanical products like anchors will tend to maximize performance in holding power or some other important thing that sells product. Better have veering ability, short scope ect. Rarely or never does that produce the best anchor. You need an anchor that does very well at numerous things like performance (setting and holding) in a wide variety of bottom types and other variables. When you find the anchor that hold it’s own most all the time you probably have an anchor worth buying. But if you buy an anchor that has astonishing holding power you can assume it does some things rather poorly. Compromises were made in the design of the max holding power anchor that make a design that will not perform for you sometimes when you really need it. These design factors that make the super holding power anchor better in holding power will cause it to break out, drag, require long scope to achieve good performance or other shortcomings. And if holding power is at the top of your desirables just get a bit heavier anchor.

 

[psneeld]

Storms often incorporate major wind shifts either of temporary or long term nature.

Thus why many do discuss multiple anchors.

 

[twistedtree]

Here's what I don't get about two anchors.


- If you need a second anchor, it's because the weather has come up and your first anchor isn't holding. At that point you are in the midst of the storm and it seems that trying to maneuver the boat to position and set a second anchor if fraught with peril. I would run an engine to relieve load on the anchor, or haul and reset before trying to set a second anchor. In other words, trying to set a second anchor is the last thing I'd do, not the first, or even the second.


- Once you have a second anchor out, if you are still dragging then what do you do? If you need to depart or relocate, I think you have created a much worse situation. You have even worse conditions, and need to retrieve two anchors without getting fouled on either, or anything else.

 

[Cold Duck]

Routinely will put two anchors out off the bow, 180 degrees apart to limit swing in tight anchorages (yes if other vessels are involved, watch the swing with respect to those vessels). As far as the Armageddon anchoring, off Tehuanipec, Mx, with winds gusting over 100mph, steady 60-70mph (luckily coming off the beach) we used 3 anchors, 2 danforth and a CQR in a fan. Held for 2 days until winds abated to move on. Wind never shifted nor would it. So, there is a different answer for every situation. Have to survey the situation.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Storms often incorporate major wind shifts either of temporary or long term nature.

Thus why many do discuss multiple anchors.

We buy anchors that veer well. Veering w/o breaking out.
There are numerous anchors that veer just rotating in place.

Most all the blows I’ve experienced (SE Ak.) the wind direction changed little. I don’t remember any but it probably did or may have happened.
So as always one needs to adjust operational information to one’s geo. and one’s boat.

 

[psneeld]

I usually only use one line when I tie up to a dock because I trust one line and I know which direction the wind and current will be from for my time there. I also have never seen a piling break or line part or cleat break/pull out so I am confident in my one mooring line approach because I use good line.

Yep, my anchor is also the only thing important in an anchoring scenario.

Nightly anchoring when expecting even thunderstorms or gales is one thing....storms are another.

Camping is one thing, wilderness survival is another.

Different levels of uncertainty, to me, means different levels of preparation.

 

[jleonard]

Here's what I don't get about two anchors.
- If you need a second anchor, it's because the weather has come up and your first anchor isn't holding. At that point you are in the midst of the storm and it seems that trying to maneuver the boat to position and set a second anchor if fraught with peril. I would run an engine to relieve load on the anchor, or haul and reset before trying to set a second anchor. In other words, trying to set a second anchor is the last thing I'd do, not the first, or even the second.
e.

Not true for the reasons I deploy a second anchor. I have most often set a second anchor in very shallow and crowded anchorages. For those who have anchored in the shallow areas of Block Island know that it is not uncommon for someone to clip your anchor line since the water is only 5 or 6 feet deep. I normally set a second there just in case someone comes too close and trips my main. I set the second anchor short, at a slightly different angle, then leave some slack in the rode so there will be no tension unless I get tripped. Then the second anchor will hold me.
If a TX storm brews, I am normally at 10:1 already and I fire up the engine and keep strain off the one anchor as best I can. I have always been successful doing this.

Color me old fashioned, but my Danforth never let me down.

 

[Shrew]

I don't size my anchor and gear for when it's nice. I size it for thunderstorms and bad fronts. I put 5:1 scope (all chain) calculated from the bow roller to the seafloor at high tide.

If I find I need a 100Lb 'Storm' anchor, I'm moving to a marina. I'm not riding out hurricanes.

 

[MOJO]

BTW, if you think it's likely you may need to deploy a second anchor, your primary isn't big enough.

Wise words indeed! Rule of thumb for sizing an anchor... when the folks on the dock start laughing at how large your anchor is, you know it's just about big enough!!

 

[Bob M]

My most effective anchor configuration, that I've used on both small and large boats, is two in-line anchors. The heavier anchor is attached to the rode. The lighter, usually Dansforth style, is attached to the heavier anchor with its own at least 6' rode. A line and buoy are attached to the lighter anchor so that both anchors can be dislodged if necessary, when it's time to pull anchor. A bridle is used to divert anchor pull to cleats rather than the windlass.


All chain rode seems to work better than line, since the weight seems to lower the angle of the rode.


In heavy weather with changing wind direction, two rodes, either both off the bow or one aft, have caused me problems. The rodes sometimes tangle.



My assumption is that there is no anchor configuration that won't slip in high wind. A goal is to use a configuration that is likely to re-embed before it gets tangled. With a single rode, two rodes or more tangling is not an issue.

 

[Capt Ray]

I have only ONE story to tell to add to this discussion...
There are lots of really good points in this thread and I cannot disagree with any of them!

The first thing we did when we bought our MS 390 a few years ago, (which came with a plow and 50 ft of 3/8" chain + nylon) was to get a larger anchor (Rockna Vulcan 25 - 55#) and 200 ft of 3/8" chain + nylon + snubber ... so we really do not deploy a second anchor very often at all.

There was [only] ONE night just over a year ago, when a second anchor was deployed due to the forecasts and the mix conditions we were in. The old plow and its 50ft of 3/8" chain was deployed in a "V" configuration with the newer main anchor and rode. Everything held fine to our satisfaction.

The unanticipated problem came in the morning when it was time for me to retrieve the 50 feet of 3/8" chain for the second anchor... without the help of a windlass. That was neither fun, healthy for my back, nor fast 'n' easy.

To complicate matters, we had a lock opening we were trying to time, and we had to radio the lock master to let him know we'd need another 20-25 minutes... and that he didn't have to wait if it wasn't prudent to do so with other boats arriving into the chamber.

He waited... but the "pressure" was on me to get 50 feet of 3/8" chain up on the deck in a hurry was NOT FUN. That, of course, was followed by our more familiar weighing of the main anchor and rode.

SO,
Without a second windlass, I think there is a practical argument for having a more modest length or size of chain on the second anchor (unless you have a second windlass!)

We gotta have a spare / second anchor as there are countless reasons and examples of why I wouldn't be comfortable without a second one (even if it is rarely deployed).

Today, I now have about 15 feet of 3/8" chain + nylon attached to that plow as our second anchor. I don't think my admiral could heft it all up, but with me at the helm I could position the boat so she can get a lot of that nylon scope up and tied. Then, I'd leave the helm to finish the job... (all while our main anchor was still in-place.)

Untangling the two would obviously have further complicated if it was necessary!

Having a main anchor and rode sized for 99.9% of all situations (including wind + current + bottom conditions) is well worth the investment. "I don't think I've ever seen a boat with an anchor too big for it."

related pics:
https://shellerina.com/2020/09/18/shelly-inspects-her-new-anchor/

https://shellerina.com/2020/09/19/new-ground-tackle-system-is-deployed/

https://shellerina.com/2020/09/21/splicing-8-plait/

 

[Circumnavigator]

We were anchored on the West Coast of Huahine-Nui (west of Tahiti, east of Bora Bora) in a patch of thin sand on coral with about six other boats, all long distance cruisers.


We had one 75 pound CQR out with plenty of chain. There's just enough tide there to swing the boats 180 when it changes.


Along comes a Moorings charter boat who anchors more or less in the middle of the group, then puts out a second anchor 180 from the first. I row over and, as politely as I can, suggest that if he leaves the second anchor in place, we or one of the other boats will swing into him when the tide turns. He refuses to take it up, saying that the Moorings told him to always use two anchors. After a little discussion -- no raised voices, just discussion -- I go back to our boat.


We're not going anywhere, so we get out a couple of fenders and wait for the turn of the tide. Sure enough, we swing toward him and soon are fendering off -- no damage, just nuisance. He gets angry, pulls both anchors and goes elsewhere.


Moral: As noted above, never use more anchors than your neighbors.


Jim


Sweetwater -- Swan 57 sloop on which we circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry -- x Royal Navy Fleet Tender -- owned 2003-2022, 20,000 miles including trans-Atlantic
Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 single screw trawler 2021- ?

 

[psneeld]

I don't usually use or really have needed more than one anchor ..... unless I thought I would really need it.

Then neighbors be damned.

I last proved that off St Michaels, Md one summer day when much of the rest of the fleet never foresaw the thunderstom wind shift coming and wound up dragging toward the rocky shoreline.

Of course I was there early and well away from others till more piled in later in the afternoon. If I came later and knew how I was going to anchor, I would have avoided the crowd.

Being polite is a good thing, being smarter than the rest is better.

 

[Simi 60]

Just get an excellent oversized storm anchor and use it as your primary.
And remember that chain doesn't work while sitting in your locker - use it.

 

[psneeld]

Just get an excellent oversized storm anchor and use it as your primary.
And remember that chain doesn't work while sitting in your locker - use it.

Not possible in all anchorages.

I usually agree with one great anchor and chain....

But no tool in the world is the best for every job.

Flexibility is key.

 

[Simi 60]

Not possible in all anchorages.

I usually agree with one great anchor and chain....

But no tool in the world is the best for every job.

Flexibility is key.

6+ years of full time cruising on this vessel and I am yet to find an anchorage where it doesn't work or ever have the want or need for a 2nd anchor out.

Not saying it could never happen but I would be interested in hearing a scenario where it would.

I do have a selection of metal lumps passing themselves off as anchors (ploughs) and a decent sized super Sarca as spares

 

[socalrider]

Routinely will put two anchors out off the bow, 180 degrees apart to limit swing in tight anchorages (yes if other vessels are involved, watch the swing with respect to those vessels). As far as the Armageddon anchoring, off Tehuanipec, Mx, with winds gusting over 100mph, steady 60-70mph (luckily coming off the beach) we used 3 anchors, 2 danforth and a CQR in a fan. Held for 2 days until winds abated to move on. Wind never shifted nor would it. So, there is a different answer for every situation. Have to survey the situation.

I use two anchors quite frequently as SoCal island anchorages are often tight, but always one off the bow & one off the stern. I've never heard of two off the bow 180deg apart - why would you do that rather than a bow/stern setup?

 

[psneeld]

Lots of different boating techniques based on region and personal needs/experience.

Bahamian moor - usually used in narrow, tide reversing channels where touching the sides of rock would be bad. Sometime they are lined with mangrove trees.

https://www.anchoring.com/blogs/anchoring/the-bahamian-moor-how-to-set-two-anchors-off-the-bow

 

[M. Shul]

Lots of different boating techniques based on region and personal needs/experience.

Bahamian moor - usually used in narrow, tide reversing channels where touching the sides of rock would be bad. Sometime they are lined with mangrove trees.

https://www.anchoring.com/blogs/anchoring/the-bahamian-moor-how-to-set-two-anchors-off-the-bow

Thanks and yes I have heard and used the Bahamian moor, but what I am not sure is why put two anchors off the bow? This just allows for the two rhodes to tangle or wind up with each other? Why not put the second anchor off the stern. This is why in a previous post I asked about putting real anchoring setups (i.e. winch, anchor roller and rhode storage) on the stern and why so few if any boats do so? Is there something inherently dangerous or problematic of using a stern anchor?

 

[psneeld]

Thanks and yes I have heard and used the Bahamian moor, but what I am not sure is why put two anchors off the bow? This just allows for the two rhodes to tangle or wind up with each other? Why not put the second anchor off the stern. This is why in a previous post I asked about putting real anchoring setups (i.e. winch, anchor roller and rhode storage) on the stern and why so few if any boats do so? Is there something inherently dangerous or problematic of using a stern anchor?

The forced exerted by a lot of current or wave surge can be very much more than on the bow. It can make retrieving the anchor nearly impossible as I have experienced once in a relatively calm, low current and small second anchor situation. So unless I am sure of future conditions and bottom or for short term, I would rarely anchor from the stern.

But that is a personal decision for each and every time you contemplate anchoring from the stern....not saying don't do it...just understand the ramifications.

The first 2 responses in your last post on the subject pretty well summed it up.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s42/stern-anchors-65758.html

 

[rbcooper]

Stern Anchoring

Of course anchoring is very specific to the types of conditions that the boater might expect to see. Here in the pacific north west we often encounter crowded anchorages that require "stern tying". I.e some type of line run from the stern of the boat to a firm attachment ashore (a tree, rock or installed hook. I've come across a fellow who boats extensively along the swedish south west coast in the archipelago. He has perfected the use of the stern anchor for use in his locale. Here's a link to his YouTube channel. I'm always impressed at how he maneuvers his boat in Tight quarters and skinny water.

https://m.youtube.com/@MyBoatandMylife

RB Cooper

 

[Cold Duck]

I don't think any of us have not had that episode with the novice anchor. I plead guilty not being born an anchor expert, didn't even know the concept of scope when I started anchoring at age 10. But after 2 years swinging only on the hook cruising from Ca. to Panama and back, you learn to become an expert or you lose your boat. There are as many "special" circumstances to anchoring where the rules don't apply as there are members to TF. There are times when the ol' CQR that you use day in and day out won't hold and you have to pull out the dusty danforth. There are times 2 and even 3 anchors are totally appropriate. Off Costa Rica, I wouldn't leave the boat unless two anchors where out. Same with the channel in La Paz Baja before there were any marinas. Normally, that ol' trusty one anchor fits the bill.