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Old 03-01-2020, 09:03 AM   #1
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Samson Posts

Iíd like to install a Samson post just aft of our windlass. Main uses would be to loop anchor snubbers coming through hawse holes, port and starboard, or tie off the chain when weíre breaking the anchor loose. The horns on the hawse cleats are prone to bend under heavy loads and I think the Samson post might be a better long-term solution with good chafe protection.

When I have snubbers running in from both hawse holes, it would seem that the loads on the Samson post would be pulling in opposite directions and might lessen the load on the mounting hardware.

Iíve seen posts with single and double horns. Is there any reason not to go with a single? Seems like a single would be a smaller thing to trip over.
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Old 03-01-2020, 09:47 AM   #2
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I haven't seen posts with only one horn but will take your word for it. Mine has 2 opposing "horns" and seem useful for securing lines as the wraps for a figure 8 much the same as a conventional cleat. I'm having a hard time picturing how one would tie to a cleat with only one horn??
The horns arent much of a tripping hazard as they are near the top of the post and dont interfere with foot placement?

I like the pic and it brings back fond memories... somewhat ironic as there is no tieing off when traversing the "chute".
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Old 03-01-2020, 09:58 AM   #3
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Ours is the wooden type, no horns, just a slight “narrowing” of the post in the middle third. I would think the abrupt turn and increased forces of the snubbers at the hawse would have to be considered if a Samson post is used.
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:01 AM   #4
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The horns arent much of a tripping hazard as they are near the top of the post and dont interfere with foot placement?
MY last boat was as described above and posed no tripping hazard.
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:01 AM   #5
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If you are going to install a samson post on you boat, pay attention to the structural issues. OEM samson posts are almost always installed bolted to a bulkhead below.


If that is not the case on your boat where you plan to install one, I would use aluminum angle welded up to bridge to the nearest bulkhead. The loads on an unsupported deck mounting will be huge.


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Old 03-01-2020, 10:09 AM   #6
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Bending the horns on a hawse cleat? I don't believe you could bend a horn on my Albin if you wanted to. Doubt if you could pull it out of the deck either. I must be missing something. If you are applying that much strain something is wrong.

I suppose you could add a Sampson post to any boat although I think it should be "built in" rather than "added on". Mine runs through the deck and becomes part of the hull at the keel. If you are going to add one remember that it has to be STRONG! Maybe not you but someone, somewhere will assume it is the strongest part on the boat and will use it to tow or anchor in a hurricane.

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Old 03-01-2020, 10:56 AM   #7
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I had a Samson post on Willy when I bought her. (pic#1) Taken when we first bought Willy. Took it off and sold it to a guy in Alaska that was practically drooling over it. This one had a smaller dia base that provided more room for lines. But as you can see ..only three attach bolts. Notice that the backing plate is mostly on deck and made of plywood. Very effective and light. The plywood mount plate I made to replace that is (1" thick DF) in pic#2. It spreads the loads over a large area and involves many fasteners so one would need to rip the whole deck off to loose the anchor line.
My original S13 Danforth anchor was on deck where (I believe they were intended to be). The bow was clean and not encumbered w anything. Great visibility.

I wanted dedicated cleats. And three of them. (pic #2) One big one on C/L for the anchor rode and one smaller on each side for mooring ties.
On most SP (Samson Posts) the lines are attached much higher than cleats. This transfers the vertical load (high) to the two far side bolts. The high SP tend to rip up the bolts on the far side of the tension on the line. Not good.
And I choose my cleats that were low and w four bolt holes w a rather wide and long footprint. And I can use the large cleat to attach two lines to at times. SP never seem to have enough room for lines on the post. And of course they usually are tall enough to trip on.
I've had this three cleat arrangement for about 12 years and have no need or want to change.

I have two (one on each side) small SP on the cap rail and I'd love to get rid of those. (pic #3) I usually want to fasten my spring lines there and the SP is just too small. And in this app I need two lines attached.
But I kinda like them to loop a line around and pull the boat in on a float. And when solo I make this one fast first. Again I'd rather have two cleats.

A real proper SP isn't bedded in on deck but is a tall square pice of oak or better that goes through the deck all the way down to the keel. That way theres no twisting or bending loads on the SP above deck if it's not tall. And all the lateral loads are applied to the deck. The best SP arrangement almost always done on a wood boat.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:13 AM   #8
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Samson post and cleats. I added the cleat ahead of the post since we raft a lot.
I also tie off on the windlass when necessary.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:26 AM   #9
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I had a single large post mounted on Possum’s bow when she was built. It was the only place to connect lines on the bow. Later I wished I’d installed two large cleats instead. It would have made line handling easier.
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:20 PM   #10
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Not sure why a single Sampson post is an issue if one either dips the eyes of dock lines or ties one with a clove hitch or turn with half hitches if fiddling one is really necessary.

I have a single wooden post, no horns that I use all the time....PO added a cleat on the back side which I occasionally put a dock line on if long term where adjusting it may be necessary.
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
I haven't seen posts with only one horn but will take your word for it.
I may have gotten the wrong terminology. May have been thinking of mooring bitts like these.
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:40 PM   #12
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MY last boat was as described above and posed no tripping hazard.
This is the one Iím leaning toward.
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
If you are going to install a samson post on you boat, pay attention to the structural issues. OEM samson posts are almost always installed bolted to a bulkhead below.


If that is not the case on your boat where you plan to install one, I would use aluminum angle welded up to bridge to the nearest bulkhead. The loads on an unsupported deck mounting will be huge.


David
Good thoughts. The mounting location is tight up againstóbut not directly overóa bulkhead. It will bolt through a thick timber reinforcement that, combined with a generous backing plate underneath, should be more than strong enough.
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Bending the horns on a hawse cleat? I don't believe you could bend a horn on my Albin if you wanted to. Doubt if you could pull it out of the deck either. I must be missing something. If you are applying that much strain something is wrong.
Depends on the size of the casting, weight of the boat and the forces put on the cleat. Itís a common failure mode on heavy boats in heavy winds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
I suppose you could add a Sampson post to any boat although I think it should be "built in" rather than "added on". Mine runs through the deck and becomes part of the hull at the keel. If you are going to add one remember that it has to be STRONG! Maybe not you but someone, somewhere will assume it is the strongest part on the boat and will use it to tow or anchor in a hurricane.

pete
Many people add Samson posts to their boats without problems.
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Old 03-01-2020, 01:27 PM   #15
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A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.

We have a proper samson post , if it wasn't one it could have been a telegraph post
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Old 03-01-2020, 01:29 PM   #16
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Ian,
Here's what was installed on our 2005 DeFever.Click image for larger version

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Old 03-01-2020, 01:51 PM   #17
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Thanks, Luke. Exactly the install Iím after. Do you recall how it was secured? Through-bolted with backing plate or screwed into timber?
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Old 03-01-2020, 01:58 PM   #18
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A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.

We have a proper samson post , if it wasn't one it could have been a telegraph post
A ďproperĒ Samson post is also capitalized.
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Old 03-01-2020, 02:21 PM   #19
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Thanks, Luke. Exactly the install Iím after. Do you recall how it was secured? Through-bolted with backing plate or screwed into timber?
No idea....Its backing plate and hardware would be above the headliner in V-Berth, not visible from the chain locker.
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Old 03-01-2020, 02:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.

We have a proper samson post , if it wasn't one it could have been a telegraph post
Yes and when it failed it pulled the whole bow off the boat.

As in Luke’s post above what’s the advantage of the Sampson post over two cleats? Or even one large cleat?
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