Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-09-2020, 07:34 AM   #1
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,172
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
I think I have a windlass solenoid issue

While operating the Lewmar V700 windlass yesterday it would not pay out chain to allow me to adjust the anchor for the final pull through the pulpit slot. Several hours before I had used the pay out (down) function from the switch at the helm to lower the anchor. Later on, I retrieved the anchor to the point where it needed to be rotated to come up through the anchor pulpit slot. I needed to pay out a small amount of chain, but the windlass would not pay out. I went to the bow, and using the footswitch there, heard a solid clunk as the solenoid activated, but the windlass would still not turn in the down direction. I released the wildcat brake using the windlass wrench and manually pulled out a foot of chain with no resistance suggesting that something like a link of chain getting sideways in the chain locker was not the issue. The 3-Amp inline fuse is not visibly blown, and the retrieve mode works from both helm and bow foot switch. I am thinking that even though there is an audible clunk as the solenoid activates when the down switches are pushed, the connection is not being made in there.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 07:36 AM   #2
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,880
Have you tried swearing at it?
__________________

__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
The Adventures of Sylphide
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 07:56 AM   #3
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,172
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
Have you tried swearing at it?
Former US Navy and you have to ask? First thing out of my mouth.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 08:02 AM   #4
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,172
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
I did get a rather fine photo of it....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC03064.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	121.6 KB
ID:	106057  
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 09:02 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Hughesville, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Branwen
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 643
If a solenoid is audibly actuating, isn't an internal failure pretty rare? Don't know myself, just seems unlikely. Have you tried shorting the output terminals or measuring the output continuity with the solenoid activated? Have you checked the wiring from the solenoid to the motor?

My below-deck windlass wiring looks a bit like yours, and my last 'failure' was due to a loose connection.

Hope the solution is a simple one, but it's a boat.

Greg.
GregBrannon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 09:11 AM   #6
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,489
Measure the voltage at the motor terminal before and after you hit the down switch. If no voltage then there is a wiring failure or a solenoid failure. I did have a solenoid go bad with that windlass, although I don't think I got any noise from the solenoid when I engaged it so it was pretty obviously bad.

3 amps for the fuse protecting the solenoid control wiring! That is surprisingly low. I would have guessed at least 10 amps.

David
DavidM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 09:18 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
City: San Diego
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 461
I see the large yellow insulator chewed up where the red wire is pressed against it. Loose connection sounds right. I assume the solenoid is easiest to remove from bulkhead and tighten screws. If that doesn't;t work, the windlass may have an internal loose wire. I don't think the switches are the problem. For about $175, it may be a convenient time to replace the solenoid. Your call, how old is it?
Swfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 09:24 AM   #8
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,172
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
Greg, from some research here, it is apparent these things do crap out. Like you, I tend to assume that a solenoid which sounds like it should is actually making contact. I am going to have to removing from the awkward mounting location in the chain locker in order to physically be able to do further diagnosis.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 09:30 AM   #9
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,172
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
Swfla, I found one for about 145 bucks. Initial impression is that there is enough working tether to get the connected solenoid clear of the bulkhead for examination, but at this point the wiring all looks OK while standing on my head. We will find out a bit later today when the sea breeze picks up and it becomes bearable to work under the boat shed.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 09:40 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: Coral Gables
Country: US
Vessel Name: Tonic
Vessel Model: 2007 Mainship Pilot Sedan 34
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 108
Rich, I had to replace that solenoid on my Pilot 34. In my case the unit did not click, clunk or thunk. I replaced it with a non-Lewmar brand, but do not recall the make (Imtra, maybe? ). I believe i got it at Defender for considerably less than the Lewmar, and it claims to be waterproof. In my case I was able to remove the solenoid then remove the wires, then wire the new one before installing.

Good luck,

Brett
Tonic1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 10:43 AM   #11
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
Swfla, I found one for about 145 bucks. Initial impression is that there is enough working tether to get the connected solenoid clear of the bulkhead for examination, but at this point the wiring all looks OK while standing on my head. We will find out a bit later today when the sea breeze picks up and it becomes bearable to work under the boat shed.
You can pay that much for a marine brand solenoid, or you can go to NAPA for a more generic brand that does exactly the same job, continuous duty, for $25.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 11:00 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
City: San Diego
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
Swfla, I found one for about 145 bucks. Initial impression is that there is enough working tether to get the connected solenoid clear of the bulkhead for examination, but at this point the wiring all looks OK while standing on my head. We will find out a bit later today when the sea breeze picks up and it becomes bearable to work under the boat shed.
LOL, it's always a challenge with windlass solenoids and accessibility. You're doing great so far. No need to start part changing (new solenoid) until you've gotten to windlass connections. Another thing you should check is continuity of wires from solenoid to windlass. Ohm meter and long jumper wires.
A very remote possibility is the battery that supplies power to windlass has a bad cell. It'll show good voltage resting but will plummet with a load on. A hydrometer to test the specific gravity of each cell is another way to evaluate the battery. Even a fairly new battery can go bad. MS can have complicated wiring setups that will make you pull your hair out if there's not a dedicated windlass battery. This usually shows on the up function but could happen on down as well.
Swfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 11:06 AM   #13
Guru
 
HiDHo's Avatar
 
City: Scottsboro, Al.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hi-D-Ho
Vessel Model: 1987 Krogen Manatee
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,311
The arc from making and breaking direct current may have fouled the contact area. I have gutted windlass foot switches and found that arcing is the problem. My foot switches are identical with horn switches so I keep plenty of spares.

In your photo it looks like the orange colored wire is disconnected just passed the black wire tie. Or it may be the angle of view.
HiDHo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 11:17 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
City: San Diego
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 461
Good point about the contacts getting dirty. Touching the wires together will test that theory. But because the solenoid operates on the down switch, it's unlikely dirty switch contacts are the issue in this case.
Swfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 12:16 PM   #15
Guru
 
City: Boston
Country: US
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 946
My first step would be to bypass the solenoid and apply V to the windlass and test up and down functionality. Windlass motor terminals can corrode internally and bearings can seize. New motor cost is about the same as a solenoid.
SoWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 12:18 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
City: San Diego
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoWhat View Post
My first step would be to bypass the solenoid and apply V to the windlass and test up and down functionality. Windlass motor terminals can corrode and bearings can seize. New motor cost is about the same as a solenoid.
The windlass retrieves just fine.
Swfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:06 PM   #17
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoWhat View Post
My first step would be to bypass the solenoid and apply V to the windlass and test up and down functionality. Windlass motor terminals can corrode internally and bearings can seize. New motor cost is about the same as a solenoid.
Where are you able to buy a new motor that cheap?
My Lofrans Tigres failed, I took the motor in and it was rewound for $750Cdn. I bought new solenoids at the same store for $25 ea.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 03:04 PM   #18
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,172
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swfla View Post
LOL, it's always a challenge with windlass solenoids and accessibility. You're doing great so far. No need to start part changing (new solenoid) until you've gotten to windlass connections. Another thing you should check is continuity of wires from solenoid to windlass. Ohm meter and long jumper wires. A very remote possibility is the battery that supplies power to windlass has a bad cell. It'll show good voltage resting but will plummet with a load on. A hydrometer to test the specific gravity of each cell is another way to evaluate the battery. Even a fairly new battery can go bad. MS can have complicated wiring setups that will make you pull your hair out if there's not a dedicated windlass battery. This usually shows on the up function but could happen on down as well.
I went out and actually enjoyed sitting on the bow in the sea breeze under the shed, despite the thousand percent humidity. Anyway, I had the solenoid removed from the chain locker bulkhead in a trice, and access is now perfect. All wires and their connections are sound as a dolla.... we'll leave that particular definition for now. Anyway they are as tight as a drunken sailor.
There are only two wires from solenoid to windlass, red and white, and since the windlass retrieves quite well, those wires are good. Connections to the black box solenoid from the helm rocker and the two foot switches are obviously good since the solenoid moves whenever the switches are depressed, retrieving just fine meaning the battery is fine (it is a pair of new Odyssey AGMs - the "start bank"). So I sent my old hydrometer along with the trawler full of LA batts when I sold it. The problem is obviously inside the solenoid box, and I am not about to try to tear it apart to burnish what may well be burned up contacts. I am going to"black box" it and get a new dual action solenoid, the one specified for the windlass by Lewmar (but not FROM Lewmar). It will take about ten minutes to replace old with new. Thanks everybody for the ideas. Then I will report back
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 03:19 PM   #19
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,033
Some windlass manufacturers advise against mounting the solenoid in the chain locker. They suggest a dry protected position such as under the v-berth. This may help to avoid future problems.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 03:30 PM   #20
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,172
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan View Post
Some windlass manufacturers advise against mounting the solenoid in the chain locker. They suggest a dry protected position such as under the v-berth. This may help to avoid future problems.
I hear ya, but this one came out looking quite well because it is tucked up under a shelf high in the locker. It is a sealed unit. And even if I wanted to execute that fine idea, the nightmare involved in trying to execute it from the rear side of the bulkhead in the cabin of this boat would not soon be forgotten and probably visible to the naked eye.
__________________

__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×