Having different anchors is a good thing when cruising

[jleonard]

Being a diehard Danforth guy, I had my main setup with a 35 danforth and all chain and the secondary with a 44 Delta 20 ft of chain and 3 strand nylon.
After a few attempts here in the Georgian Bay with not being able to set the Danforth due to weeds, I switched to the Delta.
Haven't had a problem setting in weeds since and that includes several days/night with 30 knot winds.
Once I am out of the Georgian, I WILL switch back to the Danforth but for now the Delta is King.
All depends on the bottom and I am glad I switched for now.

 

[psneeld]

Being a diehard Danforth guy, I had my main setup with a 35 danforth and all chain and the secondary with a 44 Delta 20 ft of chain and 3 strand nylon.
After a few attempts here in the Georgian Bay with not being able to set the Danforth due to weeds, I switched to the Delta.
Haven't had a problem setting in weeds since and that includes several days/night with 30 knot winds.
Once I am out of the Georgian, I WILL switch back to the Danforth but for now the Delta is King.
All depends on the bottom and I am glad I switched for now.

Over in the fortress thread it talks about danforths and weeds...after sharpening all of mine through the years, they set a lot better/more reliably.

 

[FF]

A Danforth is a style , a CQR is a very different style .

One of each style is fine , 2 of a similar style , why bother?

 

[jleonard]

Yes, read Danforth and Delta. 2 different styles.
I may try sharpening the Danforth over the winter...it could stand regalvanizing anyway.

 

[Phil Fill]

Yes, read Danforth and Delta. 2 different styles.
I may try sharpening the Danforth over the winter...it could stand regalvanizing anyway.

I agree! We have a Danforth, CQR, and a Forjord. When I walked the marina counting/looking at anchors on boats, K dock anchor survey, I notice that many where narrow sharp/pointed which might the reason they set easier? I plan to grind/sharpen the Forjord.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Phil,
I tried a Fjorfjord once. Tried an XYZ in the same spot and then a Danforth. The Danforth hooked right up but neither of the others did. Often when set I suspect the Forfjord only has one fluke buried. They must drag in mud as many fishermen have extra fluke welded on to increase the fluke area. But of course all anchors drag in mud. The question is how MUCH do they drag in mud. Speaking of fishermen they love the Forfjord. If they haven't got one they are planning to get one. Sold mine to the first guy that came along.
As to the OP ... the greatest variable in anchoring is the bottom so having more than one type of anchor aboard is a plus. I carry at least 3 anchors most of the time. Had five on my last trip. It's kinda like what gun, golf club, tool or even what boat to take for a specific place.

 

[Peter B]

... the greatest variable in anchoring is the bottom so having more than one type of anchor aboard is a plus. I carry at least 3 anchors most of the time. Had five on my last trip. It's kinda like what gun, golf club, tool or even what boat to take for a specific place.

Now Eric, for someone as concerned as you are re unnecessary weight up front, why carry all that extra for various bottoms when with a SARCA (or maybe even a Rocna), you could dispense with all those, except perhaps for your trusty Danforth as a spare or for the stern, and you would save so much weight you could add more chain even. Give that contact Rex gave you a call. I reckon they must have some in stock up there by now.

 

[Marin]

"Having different anchors is a good thing when cruising."

Having one anchor that works all the time is an even better thing.

I'm with Peter on this.

 

[FF]

Having one anchor that works all the time is an even better thing.



Till it fouls and you cut it free.

Then you head for the barn , or steam 24/7.

Great vacation.

 

[Rambler]

Till it fouls and you cut it free.

Then you head for the barn , or steam 24/7.

Great vacation.

I've heard of these things called "docks" and they're supposed to be found at "marinas" where it might be possible to pick up another anchor if need be. But maybe I'm dreaming.

 

[Peter B]

We roll-bar anchor users all have a spare...(I even admit mine's a Danforth)...it's just that they don't get a look in....never had to use it in 10 yrs.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Peter ya got me again but I only had 2 anchors on the bow and they were on the deck where I like my anchors to be. All the others were aft where the Willard hull is very full and carries weight very well. To be sure it was unnecessary weight but I wanted to try a number of anchors on the trip. Only one anchor was over 22lbs ... the 35lb Dreadnought. I had it on the bow as I wanted people to see it. HAHA I can't believe I said that much less did that. I did use the XYZ most of the time but all the others got into the act as well.
And I knew you and Marin would respond as you did and I think you may have the best all around anchor and Marin's is very good as well (and he has a spare) but the rest of us have other anchors for other reasons. Marin has a Subaru and I wouldn't have one of them. He has (I'm sure) excellent reasons for his choice and I do for mine. We all have different needs and different opinions. And if I was to buy another anchor I'd get the SARCA but there are many kinds of bottoms all over the world I'm of the opinion that two different types of anchors on board is a good thing. But all those anchors on my trip was because it was significantly an anchor testing expedition.

 

[Phil Fill]

The QCR was the anchor that was on the bow when we bought the boat, and the danforth was on the deck. We tried the QCR but we just plowed up the bottom but the bottom was mud/sand, so we switch to the Danforth that stuck and held. So for 5+ years we used the Danforth 100% of the time. At most of the Mariana stuck us on the commercial dock, as we said we were a full displacement trawler, as we start sub renting during the summer on the Everett Commercial dock, where 90+% had Forjord anchors with all chain. So one of the commercial had a Forjord anchor in there storage shed, so I bought it for like 200 bucks, and stuck it on the bow. We have only anchors a couple of time with it but in calm weather.

I figure the Forjord is sort of between the QCR and the Dandforth as the flukes are long and narrow. It seem the big the boat the more navy type anchor are used. I took out the forward thrust on the bow thruster, yes forward thrust, so can carry more weight in the bow. I am tending to do with more chain than a bigger anchor? Anyway since we are on the commercial dock the Forjord is the anchor on the bow.

I prefer those things called DOCKS, rather than anchors, but if we start heading North we will be forced to anchor. Lastly I plan on using the stead sail at anchor to reduce the swing as a straight pull is better than a side pull, and a all chian rode at 3 to 5 scope. A straight pull, heave all chain road and scope has to be a big factor on how a anchor sets and holds?

Anchoring is still a big question/unknown to us.

 

[Marin]

Marin has a Subaru and I wouldn't have one of them. He has (I'm sure) excellent reasons for his choice...

I do. One of the best, most proven engines and AWD drive trains on the planet.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Phil,
Do you have a hydraulic winch? That would be a plus as you could put much heavier chain on the anchor end and nylon for the rest. And of course the nylon part could be 300' or more w 100' of heavy studded chain. If you're going to ADD weight to your rode the most effective place is in the anchor. Quite expensive but for larger craft they have a good rep .. that is the Manson Ray. Looks like a Bruce but it is'nt cast and I think the shape is somewhat different.

 

[FF]

I prefer those things called DOCKS,

When you steam to the right coast , do stop in Sag Harbor NY.

$6.00 per foot per night , metered electric extra.

Enjoy!

 

[Rambler]

I hope they have a fully stocked mini-bar at that rate.

 

[Peter B]

Manyboats wrote...
Originally Posted by manyboats
Marin has a Subaru and I wouldn't have one of them. He has (I'm sure) excellent reasons for his choice...

I do. One of the best, most proven engines and AWD drive trains on the planet.

Snap! Our second car is a Subaru Outback also Eric, that's one vehicle even Jeremy Clarkson of (British) Top Gear says he approves of, and he's really picky...so maybe you better re-think your car preferences as well Eric...we can't all be wrong.

 

[Aquabelle]

Anchors and deploying the spare

Aquabelle weighs in at around 64,000lb. When we bought her the CQR she came with just wouldn't hold in anything other than mud. Replaced with a large #9 SARCA with all-chain 280' rode and have been very happy with it. (Image of a Sarca attached a bottom for those not familiar with this type.)

Spare is a Fortress/Guardian that we keep assembled and ready to go on the face of the portuguese bridge. It has 30' chain and 200' rope rode. We have never deployed this anchor and that is something I need to do to figure out how to do, because although the anchor winch has both a chain gypsy and a rope drum, only the chain gypsy aligns with the bow roller. I'm thinking of mounting a small roller on the bulwark in line with the rope drum....photos below. Anyone addressed this problem differently?

 

[Nomad Willy]

I've talked about this before and there is winches that have both gypsy and capstan drum on the same side of the winch. WHY WOULD ANY MANUFACTURER DO IT ANY OTHER WAY??? Must be easier to make and thus cheaper.
One could put 2 vertical shafts w rollers for the line work. I see you have a very nice winch so would probably not want to change even if you could fine one w all the business on the same side. Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance ... is there a good reason why they make them the way they do?

 

[psneeld]

I've talked about this before and there is winches that have both gypsy and capstan drum on the same side of the winch. WHY WOULD ANY MANUFACTURER DO IT ANY OTHER WAY??? Must be easier to make and thus cheaper.
One could put 2 vertical shafts w rollers for the line work. I see you have a very nice winch so would probably not want to change even if you could fine one w all the business on the same side. Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance ... is there a good reason why they make them the way they do?

Some windlasses use a line/chain gypsy as one solution...the other is that many cruisers have all chain on one side and line/chain on the other. If the bow roller assembly is a good one, the line doesn't have to come up as straight as chain anyhow.

I don't even see it as an issue....maybe neither do the windlass manufacturers...

 

[Peter B]

Eric, I think they figure a rope rode is more forgiving in terms of direction of pull, however, although my set-up is similar to the above, the alignment of the winch on the pulpit was offset somewhat, so the direction of pull is not so out of line with the roller. All the same, I think Aquabelle's would still haul a rope in. You would just have to make sure the standing part, (ie that coming in off the roller), was held towards the outside of the gypsy so it did not work it's way off it by the lopsided pull. I suspect feeding tailing end off by hand with a leftwise tension would suffice, Aquabelle.

 

[Aquabelle]

Thanks guys, next weekend I'll give it a try as-is & report back.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I routinely use a capstan w a drum and the deviation from perfect alignment can't be even seen but the line walks off to one side so strongly I need to pull hard in the other direction to keep things just barely working. But I should add that my drum is not "U" shaped like most. It's flat most of the way across and 45 degrees at either end but I have to work hard to keep the line from going right off the edge of the drum. I'm going to try and find a "U" shaped drum to fit my shaft.

 

[Aquabelle]

Handling an out-of-alignment rope drum

Walked the marina this morning to look at how others had addressed the issue of the rope drum being out of alignment with the bow roller, on chain gypsy/rope drum windlasses.

Found several vessels that just had a seperate bow roller mounted on the bow in line with the drum...but I took a photo of one that seems to be a real belt-and-braces approach. This windlass has TWO chain gypsys on each side inboard (leading to a single anchor deployment roller on the bow) and outboard of these ON EACH SIDE are rope drums...with additional rollers in line ! So this guy could theoretically put out 3 bow anchors ! Note it is all very neat and well done. I don't know the owner and he wasn't around, but I will try to track him down to understand how he uses all this or whether it just came with the boat.

I also found one vessel with a 'perfect' solution: a Maxwell windlass with both dual chain gypsys either side AND a vertical capstan (rode drum) in line and ABOVE the gypsys. I've attached a photo of this from the Maxwell website.

(I still plan to try the drum with its current mis-alingment to the bow roller this weekend and will report back)

 

[Peter B]

Wow, that's some arrangement there - cope with anything. Must have cost a bomb. However, at the end of the day, unless you routinely anchor in very deep water, all chain is just easier anyway. I have never used the rope gypsy on my boat.

 

[Aquabelle]

Peter: but have you ever had to deploy your storm/spare anchor in an emergency? Say gypsy jammed/broken, main anchor lost or not holding, vessel has no pwr and drifting towards reef. You throw the storm anchor over and it doesn't set and you need to retrieve and try again.....I think it is this sort of situation that longer-distance cruisers want to protect against. Doesn't seem right that many of us have rope drums but are not set up practically to use them....

 

[BruceK]

Manyboats wrote...
Originally Posted by manyboats
Marin has a Subaru and I wouldn't have one of them. He has (I'm sure) excellent reasons for his choice...




Snap! Our second car is a Subaru Outback also Eric, that's one vehicle even Jeremy Clarkson of (British) Top Gear says he approves of, and he's really picky...so maybe you better re-think your car preferences as well Eric...we can't all be wrong.

Except with some miles and wear,those Subaru boxer engines start sounding like a 1960 VW beetle....(putting on my flak jacket right now).
With you on carrying the single Sarca anchor though, faithful CQR in the lazarette ready to go, just in case.
BruceK

 

[Marin]

We use the gypsy (line drum) on the port side of our lofrans tigres horizontal windlass to pull in our anchor trip line. The tigres is mouted so the wildcat lines up with the pulpit rollers, which puts the gypsy off to port by quite a bit.

But we actually feed the trip line through the port bow hawse and then up to the line gypsy. So it is way out of line with the gypsy. Probably a 20 degree angle or so. But we have no problems at all hauling up the trip line even with a lot of weight on it. Two or three wraps around the gypsy is all that's needed and the line doesn't try to walk off the gypsy at all. It does work on the port side of the gypsy but it has no tendency to come off. It sounds, Eric, like the gypsy on your windlass doesn't have much of a concave surface to it or has a very low rim if it walks off to the side as you describe.

 

[Peter B]

Peter: but have you ever had to deploy your storm/spare anchor in an emergency? Say gypsy jammed/broken, main anchor lost or not holding, vessel has no pwr and drifting towards reef. You throw the storm anchor over and it doesn't set and you need to retrieve and try again.....I think it is this sort of situation that longer-distance cruisers want to protect against. Doesn't seem right that many of us have rope drums but are not set up practically to use them....

Never had to deal with your scenario Aquabelle, but I know my spare anchor and mainly rope rode would work and cope ok if needed. I was used to using a Danforth on my yachts. Just that it has never happened as the Sarca is just so damned good, as you will know by now - or soon will - once you've cruised on it a bit. After all, your #9 is 41.2 kg = ~90lb, and rated for up to 28 metres or 32 tonne, so it is certainly an adequate weight. Even FF would agree with that I think.