The front fell off - Bow pulpit broke

[jhall767]

I have a 58 Symbol with dual anchors. This weekend the bow pulpit broke in two. No real stress - we hadn't even set the anchor. Just gave out after 20 years I guess. The anchors are a Rocna 40 and a fortress 85.

My marina said they'd have to fabricate a new pulpit and it would cost about $15,000. That seems high. Trying to figure out the best way to proceed. If I'm spending that much money I want to see if I can improve on the design.

And yes we were displaying an anchor ball!

Thanks

 

[rslifkin]

I'd do some thinking and drawing to see if you can come up with a design you like. Then plan to build it out of foam cored fiberglass (either DIY or have it built). It shouldn't be hard to build something that's plenty strong enough to take any abuse you'd want it to.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

It looks like that pulpit was an after thought, It doesn't look like there was that much supporting structure connecting the pulpit tyo the bow.... I'd be talking to my insurance company...

 

[Crusty Chief]

Bummer! Get with your insurance guy involved. Bet it was a PITA to recover the ground tackle.
Best of luck.

 

[bayview]

Look like water intrusion into plywood.

More PIX would help.

Was it just bolted to the deck? Is that a fiberglass cover over a wood beam with just air under at the sides? Or a foam core? If so you could build a new wood core and use the old FG top with some fill and paint to make it look original.

Really does not look liket here was much structural support in there.

 

[Comodave]

I would just make a new one using the old one as a pattern. Cut a number of 3/4” marine plywood until you get the proper thickness. Then I use West epoxy to encapsulate each piece and while it is wet use it to laminate the pieces together. Then shape it to your desire using a grinder, rotozip, router or files. Afret any shaping lay on layers of 1708 fiberglass until you get enough to make it strong, probably 3 or 4 layers. Then use some epoxy fairing compound and sand it smooth, then paint with your choice of 2 part polyurethane paint. Install it. Have fun using it. Much cheaper than $15K. Whenever you drill any holes in it seal them with liquid epoxy so it doesn’t rot again.

 

[jhall767]

Look like water intrusion into plywood.

More PIX would help.

Was it just bolted to the deck? Is that a fiberglass cover over a wood beam with just air under at the sides? If so you could build a new wood core and use the old FG top with some fill and paint to make it look original.

It's just bolted on. Seems to be a thin piece of plywood and the rest is thick fiberglass. Not sure if that's the strongest way to go or not. Everything is crazy heavy but I might start disassembling it piece by piece and then see what's left. If carved out from the bottom wouldn't this be just like repairing core damage on the hull?

 

[rslifkin]

Yes, cutting it open from the bottom would be like recoring a deck. I did that to my own waterlogged plywood cored pulpit last winter. Cut it open, removed all of the core, added some mat and epoxy to fill some voids in there, put in new foam core set in epoxy, then used heavy glass cloth and epoxy to put it all back together. When I put the cut-out panel back on I filled with epoxy in a couple stages to ensure that there were no voids anywhere in there, any airpace in the original build ended up filled with epoxy.

The end result still visibly flexes a little when docking the anchor into it, but I don't think I can avoid that considering it's already got an inch of core with half an inch of fiberglass above it (closer to 3/4" near the edges) and about 3/8" below the core, plus the sides of the outer shell add a bit more bending stiffness once it projects beyond the hull. Strength wise, I haven't gotten any stress cracks in it nor any concerning flex while breaking the anchor out of the bottom. And at one point I put enough load on it to pull the whole bow down slightly.

 

[vacser]

Have you thought about having one built out of aluminum and having it powder coated. Plenty strong

 

[Datenight]

Have you thought about having one built out of aluminum and having it powder coated. Plenty strong

Or stainless. I posted this a week or so ago on another thread.

Rob

 

[vacser]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiberglass...rentrq:22f019ed1740aad36b15a4acffffa32e|iid:1 Something to start with

 

[Peter B]

I've always felt a bit wary of those boats where the pulpit is built like an extension of the fibreglass mold, with just some reinforcing inside it. Might look classier, but it can never be as strong as those made like that on my old Clipper (CHB) 34, so this, for you, might even now be the best way to go, and you could do it yourself probably. Coat way less than that quoted.

You would need to finish off the hull where yours broke off so the prow is nice and smooth, as if there had never been an extension of the hull mold. Then make the pulpit/anchoring arrangement by using a decent plank of solid timber to mount the winch and roller gear on, which would then sit, screwed down on the repaired prow, and fixed at the inboard, in your case, to the deck with bolts right through and large backing washers under, whereas in my case it is attached to a very stout Samson Post. You could use a plank as wide as the space between your two locker hatches there on each side I think. It would still end up as strong as a brick outhouse, as the saying goes, and can be altered/replaced quite easily, although virtually never needs to be. You can then add on whatever roller mounting system you like. Sarca have a special hinged roller system eg. You could end up with a system like mine (and many others I suspect), still as strong and functional as the day made after 45years. (1975 model)
See pics of mine.

 

[wkearney99]

Hard to tell from that picture but it sort of looks like some of that fiberglass wasn't even fully saturated by the resin. I don't think that would have been a direct cause of the failure, but I'm sure it wouldn't have helped.

I'm with the suggestion that says go with something else fabricated out of metal, and with proper backing to secure it.

 

[Arc]

I could understand 15k for a full reconstruction job, but I an sure I could get it done for less then $2k and 5 boxes of gloves.

 

[jhall767]

Have you thought about having one built out of aluminum and having it powder coated. Plenty strong

Yes. My last boat was a striker. Welded aluminum. that wasn't falling off for sure. could have picked the boat us with it.

 

[jhall767]

I've always felt a bit wary of those boats where the pulpit is built like an extension of the fibreglass mold, with just some reinforcing inside it. Might look classier, but it can never be as strong as those made like that on my old Clipper (CHB) 34, so this, for you, might even now be the best way to go, and you could do it yourself probably. Coat way less than that quoted.

You would need to finish off the hull where yours broke off so the prow is nice and smooth, as if there had never been an extension of the hull mold. Then make the pulpit/anchoring arrangement by using a decent plank of solid timber to mount the winch and roller gear on, which would then sit, screwed down on the repaired prow, and fixed at the inboard, in your case, to the deck with bolts right through and large backing washers under, whereas in my case it is attached to a very stout Samson Post. You could use a plank as wide as the space between your two locker hatches there on each side I think. It would still end up as strong as a brick outhouse, as the saying goes, and can be altered/replaced quite easily, although virtually never needs to be. You can then add on whatever roller mounting system you like. Sarca have a special hinged roller system eg. You could end up with a system like mine (and many others I suspect), still as strong and functional as the day made after 45years. (1975 model)
See pics of mine.

That's the current design. The anchor pulpit is a separate piece. Not part of the hull.

 

[Solly]

I'm with Peter B on this. Fix the bow properly. Then remove the windlass and fit a plank or metal from the windlass out to where you want the roller. Thru bolt the windlass and some out in front of it too. Mount a roller of choice on the end if you use wood.
Why replace what broke ??

 

[BruceK]

My old IG looked like it just had a teak bowsprit but under the wood was a full length metal plate going from under the windlass forward. It was a solid set up, never had a problem.
The area under a windlass has openings for bolts etc, it gets a lot of loading and vibration during anchoring and windlass operation, clearly an area open to wear and tear. And worse, if not well designed and maintained.

 

[koliver]

unless your cost estimate is close to the deductible on your insurance, let them deal with it. Why are you paying high premiums, then avoiding them? You will get to approve what ever they do, so make sure they work with a knowledgible yard and you will get a good result. If not to your liking, you don't need to sign off.

 

[Peter B]

That's the current design. The anchor pulpit is a separate piece. Not part of the hull.

I'm with Peter B on this. Fix the bow properly. Then remove the windlass and fit a plank or metal from the windlass out to where you want the roller. Thru bolt the windlass and some out in front of it too. Mount a roller of choice on the end if you use wood.
Why replace what broke ??

Yes, indeed. If it already was an add-on, then all the easier to replace with all wood, and larger, rather than a relatively slim plank covered with a lot of fibreglass, which does not have a lot of lateral/bend strength, or have it fabricated in a metal.

However, the issue with metal is corrosion prevention unless solid stainless and pretty thick stainless as well, which is expensive. Or powder-coated steel, which might well still corrode. I think alloy might be too easily deformed unless braced well..? That's the beauty of timber. So much easier to work with oneself, and the more salt water that gets on it, the better the rot protection. Touch up repainting also a cinch.

 

[jhall767]

I'm with Peter B on this. Fix the bow properly. Then remove the windlass and fit a plank or metal from the windlass out to where you want the roller. Thru bolt the windlass and some out in front of it too. Mount a roller of choice on the end if you use wood.
Why replace what broke ??

I'm sure it's not clear from the picture but the part that broke is the "plank". Not the bow. It broke forward of the bow. In order to start any work the other half of the pulpit must be unbolted from the boat. This would include the windlass as it is through bolted through the plank into the boat. Perhaps the yard is confused too and thinks there is damage to the boat itself.

Next step will be to get a crew together to get that 90lb anchor off the boat and then take everything apart.

 

[jhall767]

A little levity - where the title of this post comes from

https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM

 

[SoWhat]

$2000 to fabricate and install new pulpit.
$13000 premium because you own a 58' luxury boat.

Get some quotes.

 

[Frosty]

A little levity - where the title of this post comes from

Without even going to the link I can tell you I've had that "bit" in my head ever since I read this post. "Well some of them are built so the front doesn't fall off a'tall!" :lol:

The break on the wood looks so clean. No grainy splinters with some wood on one side and some on the other. Was it continuous wood? Plywood (where only half the plies go in the right direction), or was there a joint there....?

I like the idea of doing something strong and bolting it on, without trying to replicate the original look.

 

[Simi 60]

My marina said they'd have to fabricate a new pulpit and it would cost about $15,000. That seems high.

Thar be PIRATES
Even $5000 would seem a bit rapey to me.

Do it out of metal and bolt it on
Add a gusset down the stem for support.
If doing it from alloy DO NOT get it powdercoated
It'll crack, get salt under and bubble and flake.

 

[Simi 60]

I'd be talking to my insurance company...

Is that why premiums are so high?
In America they pay out on lack of maintenance and or poor design/boat building?

 

[BruceK]

A little levity - where the title of this post comes from

https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM

Ah yes, the late John Clarke,and Brian Dawe. A very funny man,much missed.

 

[DDW]

Tell ya what, I'll build you a nice new one for $13,000. That will save you $2000. And make me about $12,000. And I won't even build the new one from plywood and filler.

 

[Peter B]

I'm sure it's not clear from the picture but the part that broke is the "plank".

A little levity - where the title of this post comes from

https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM

Brilliant link. Yes, John Clarke, (aka Fred Dag), is sorely missed indeed, and that skit does about sum up what happened to your boat. The front fell off. But...are you out of the environment..?

Coming back to being serious though...it was the plank that broke, (or you could say, 'planked'), but it was an inadequate plank, and probably did not stretch the whole length of the pulpit. Replacing the whole pulpit with a plank (a very stout plank), and not bothering to coat it with anything but marine paint - or a fabricated metal equivalent, would do the trick nicely...and not 'fall off'.

I also feel that the huge slot in that pulpit introduced an immediate weakness in any case, which you would do well to not try to emulate. In fact, looking at the pics again, it looks like that was just short of the end of the plank where it broke, or at best the plank beyond that huge roller slot was only half the original width if it went out beyond the slot.

Keeping the whole pulpit intact right to the end, then fitting an appropriate roller system with retaining bolt makes for a much sturdier arrangement than having slots for the shanks to come up through anyway. That is a feature done more for looks than for any real improvement in function. Without a slotted pulpit also means you are able to fit a roll-bar type anchor with no restrictions, which many on here, (myself included) would still say are the best all-rounders, and keeps the anchor tip further away from the actual bow. You have a decent sized Rocna anyway, so I'm preaching to the converted I suspect.

 

[HiDHo]

I’m not a structural engineer but I see pulpits designed for failure because of what looks like a beautiful design that didn’t take into account anchor weight forces. The last example I saw was a Krogen Manatee 36 who’s owner had about 150 pounds of anchor weight distributed in two anchors. Solid ground tackle but just sitting dockside it was apparent the weight had the pulpit distorted. Take the forces supplied in a seaway or failure to transfer the weight from the pulpit rollers to an anchor bridal and a failure can occur.
The breaking leverage on unsupported pulpits design should be easy to correct by either internal ibeam construction redesign or support struts.
( see photo ) But as mentioned the Manatee struts still could not keep the pulpit from deflecting down from the weight of the two anchors with out changing the struts angle, moving the struts further forward and increasing the strut sizes mounting plates and backing.