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07-01-2020, 01:15 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Sitka
Vessel Name: Ventana
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 371
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Downsizing chain
Wondering if anyone here has replaced a larger chain size with a smaller size but more length? I am thinking of replacing the 300’ of BBB 3/8 chain we currently use with 400’ of HT 5/16, and wondering what the difference will be in overall size in the anchor locker. I understand about differences in chain, I have multiple wildcats for the different chain sizes, and have the need for the extra length, but I am pretty maxed out on space in the anchor locker so I want some first hand experience in the differences in overall volume between the two rodes before I place an order.
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07-01-2020, 01:27 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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This gives you a rough idea:
https://www.peerlesschain.com/wp-con...RETAIL_sm2.pdf
Looks like you could get 400 ft in where you now have 300.
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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07-01-2020, 01:36 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,440
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BBB is designed not to kink in the locker. You may not be happy with long link chain
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07-01-2020, 01:36 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,550
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Based on the volume that fits in a standard drum, the 400 feet of 5/16" will take just a tiny bit less space than the 300 feet of 3/8". The 400 feet of 5/16" will also be about 415 lbs compared to 480 for 300 feet of 3/8", so you'll save some weight too.
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07-01-2020, 01:37 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview
BBB is designed not to kink in the locker. You may not be happy with long link chain
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G43 windlass chain is still short link. No windlass I know of takes long link.
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07-01-2020, 01:55 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
City: Sitka
Vessel Name: Ventana
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 371
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Thanks guys. When I was in the business I had barrels of chain shipped in regularly, but never paid much attention to how full the barrels were filled. I would assume they would fill them as full as possible for shipping efficiency, but my track record with assumptions isn’t all that great.....
Anyone actually downsized like this and have real world experience?
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07-01-2020, 04:46 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Mooloolaba
Vessel Name: Flora
Vessel Model: Timber southern cray boat
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,859
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I have upsized from 10 mm to 12 mm but stayed with the same length (110 mts) approx 350 ft. Just have to compensate for the extra weight. Nothing beats chain weight to keep that anchor in place. I would be endeavouring to get in a bit more of the 3/8 chain before downsizing.
__________________
"When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them"
Money: It's made round to go round , not flat to stack.
"Get out and do it"
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07-01-2020, 06:02 PM
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#8
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidahapah
I have upsized from 10 mm to 12 mm but stayed with the same length (110 mts) approx 350 ft. Just have to compensate for the extra weight. Nothing beats chain weight to keep that anchor in place. I would be endeavouring to get in a bit more of the 3/8 chain before downsizing.
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Or he could put the weight savings into a bigger anchor and probably come out ahead in the long run.
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07-01-2020, 06:55 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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I’ve always said a pound of anchor is far far more beneficial than a pound of chain. One can effectively use “a few feet of chain” per Chapman’s boat handling book commonly thought of as the boating bible.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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07-01-2020, 08:50 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Mooloolaba
Vessel Name: Flora
Vessel Model: Timber southern cray boat
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,859
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Or step up to a super high holding power anchor such as a Sarca Excel and have the best of both worlds. Could even go the aluminium version to save weight.
__________________
"When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them"
Money: It's made round to go round , not flat to stack.
"Get out and do it"
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07-01-2020, 11:07 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
City: Sitka
Vessel Name: Ventana
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 371
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I already have the best anchor, I’m just trying to work out the chain issue now.
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07-08-2020, 07:30 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview
BBB is designed not to kink in the locker. You may not be happy with long link chain
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Heck with kinking, how about teepee’ing?
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07-08-2020, 07:37 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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I use 5/16 G4 with my Maxwell HW2C2200 windlass (24V) and have thought of going to 1/4’’ providing a gypsy is available. My current chain is in fine condition and that is the only reason that I did not search for a gypsy.
1/4’’ G4 I think has enough strength to rip the windlass right off my deck so strength fears are unnecessary. And using 1/4’’ chain will build a shorter teepee in my anchor locker
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07-09-2020, 01:42 PM
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#14
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TF Site Team
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,160
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The problem I see is that the Krogen 42 specs are:
Length: 42'4"
Weight: 39,500 lbs
That puts you squarely in the 3/8" chain. 5/16" would seem to small for that size and weight boat.
Is less chain and more line a better option? How about wire rope?
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07-09-2020, 01:45 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew
The problem I see is that the Krogen 42 specs are:
Length: 42'4"
Weight: 39,500 lbs
That puts you squarely in the 3/8" chain. 5/16" would seem to small for that size and weight boat.
Is less chain and more line a better option? How about wire rope?
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I doubt there are many boats out there that would see a 5/16’’ g4 chain fail before its attachment onto the boat proper
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07-09-2020, 02:10 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
City: Sitka
Vessel Name: Ventana
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew
The problem I see is that the Krogen 42 specs are:
Length: 42'4"
Weight: 39,500 lbs
That puts you squarely in the 3/8" chain. 5/16" would seem to small for that size and weight boat.
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By whose standards? Not saying you are wrong (well, I kinda am) but most things written about anchoring are garbage, so I’m wondering where this recommendation comes from? I’m anchoring a boat with the chain, not lifting the boat out of the water.
In all my years of obsessing over anchors and anchoring, as well as participating in multiple highly publicized anchor tests, I have only seen one person post real world data on anchoring loads. I wish I could find the information again to post it up. If someone can show me real data that proves the high loads most people believe exist, I will gladly rethink my opinions. I’m not picking on you specifically, these misconceptions get posted in practically every anchoring thread on the internet.
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07-09-2020, 02:54 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,146
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Some people think their everyday tackle has to be rated for hurricanes.
Reality is for many boaters, 90 percent of the time you experience X conditions....9 percent you experience 2X for 24 hrs or less and 3X for 12 hrs or less. Rarely do you see even high squall winds and most boaters never anchor in hurricanes.
Pick reasonable numbers to calculate your tackle and happily cruise, knowing that if severe conditions are even remotely possible, plan B is batter up.
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08-02-2020, 01:58 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 6
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We decided to opt for a thinner but longer chain. The disadvantage is a larger swinging circle, and at the same water depth shock loads on the anchor due to swell will be larger (which, however, you can address with good snubbers), but the advantages are that I can anchor safely in deeper water, at a smaller scope, and be fine. If you halve the chain weight per metre, double the chain length, and double the anchor depth, you have the same geometric situation as before, just scaled up by a factor of 2. But the elasticity of the chain will still be twice compared to the twice as heavy chain at half the anchor depth.
The full analysis can be found here:
https://trimaran-san.de/die-kettenku...atiker-ankert/
(In English, not in German )
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08-02-2020, 03:20 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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I don’t know what to say.
It’s TMI for me.
I don’t see chain as being “elastic”. No not much of a bungie chord I’m think’in.
I have my own theories on catenary and chain. I’ve posted them and nobody seems to get that and it’s simple compared to this.
Has anybody read more than 5-10 minutes of this? If so what basically is ... or there any recommendations or advice to boaters that anchor.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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08-02-2020, 05:00 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Rose Mary
Vessel Model: 42 Grand Banks Motoryacht - 1985
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 271
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I switched from the older 3/8 that was in my locker to 270ft of 5/16HT. Bought a new gypsy. Works great. Can't tell you how much less space it takes up, but it's definitely less.
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