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04-27-2016, 01:12 PM
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#21
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Veteran Member
City: Saint Petersburg, Fl.
Vessel Name: LUV'N LIFE
Vessel Model: 47 Atlantic
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 25
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An inexpensive double bridle that works very well. Credit Capt Pascal
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Frank
LUV'N LIFE
47 Atlantic
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04-27-2016, 01:15 PM
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#22
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Guru
City: Stuart FL
Vessel Name: Lucky Lucky
Vessel Model: Pacific Mariner 65
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,760
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If you want a simple, reliable and inexpensive system you can try what I use. I have two 25' X 5/8" dock lines with the loop ends into a shackle that has the pin end through the chain hook and the lines through the rounded part. That's it. If one line lets go, the other is still intact. I never did understand the two lines to one pennant concept since if the pennant breaks the whole setup is toast.
Just saw the post above. That's my setup!
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Howard
Lucky Lucky
Stuart, FL
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04-27-2016, 01:27 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmason
If you want a simple, reliable and inexpensive system you can try what I use. I have two 25' X 5/8" dock lines with the loop ends into a shackle that has the pin end through the chain hook and the lines through the rounded part. That's it. If one line lets go, the other is still intact. I never did understand the two lines to one pennant concept since if the pennant breaks the whole setup is toast.
Just saw the post above. That's my setup!
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Yeah, great point about the pendant. I am trying to avoid using a chain hook is all. I've used a hook in the past, but will try simply tying the pendant onto the chain rode.
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04-27-2016, 01:52 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Juneau Alaska
Vessel Name: Arctic Traveller
Vessel Model: Defever 49 RPH
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 607
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We use a double bridle made of 1/2in three strand nylon, woven through two rubber snubbers and attached to the chain with a snap shakle. The bridle is brought over the roller and attached to the chain and then lowered until there is a loop of chain. The main reason we use one is to eliminate the sound of the chain dragging the bottom all night. In 20 years of boating in Alaska there have only been a couple of times I've worried about the load on the windlass due to chain snatch, but the rubber dampened the strain just fine. Unless your in a very windy or rough anchorage, the loads on the windlass, even with all chain may not be as big a concern as you think.
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04-27-2016, 05:21 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
His vessel is an HC. Seems that many relevant suggestions have sprung forth for his setup.
Now we're just raising personal stories, that is OK. My question pertaining to Jeff's point (that windlass will never pull out of a DeFever Jeff ), isn't a bridle that is designed for lighter wind stretch - designed for heavier wind breakage? Especially as the snubber ages or gets sun rotted.
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Looking on line "HC" s seem to come in a variety of flavors, ground tackle deployment wise. Many of the posts here assume a pulpit, and a few of the pics I saw had no pulpit. When he said he could only reach the chain with a boat hook, that got my attention.
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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04-27-2016, 05:30 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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For the reason noted earlier, each leg of a bridle should be rated close to or at the size of rode you would be using in lieu of chain. The boat will definitely horse from one leg to the other, though my experience is that once the winds get to certain level of sportiness, the boat will usually blow back enough to use both legs.... through a little current or wind direction change in there , it will still horse.
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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04-27-2016, 06:00 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Vallejo, California
Vessel Name: Mahalo Moi
Vessel Model: 1986 Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britannia
I agree with "both." I use a bridle and a chain stopper. As mentioned, the bridle is attached to the chain just after it goes over the roller - I can reach there from my bowsprit. Then the chain is lowered until the bridle takes the strain.
This past weekend I anchored in the Napa River. It's muddy and narrow and I was concerned about swinging into the mud. I this case I used neither a snubber nor a chain stopper. There was no surge in the river and very little strain on the windlass. However, I did want to be able to make adjustments quickly if needed without having to bother unhooking everything. It turned out to be useful - about 1am I ended up shortening scope to pull the boat off the mud. All from the pilothouse in my pyjamas!
Richard
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Richard,
The Napa River can be tricky. Most places, especially with an ebb current, a cross current develops and swings the stern into the bank. The trick is to use a stern anchor as well as a bow anchor with minimal scope on each. Or, find the locations of the river that the current is parallel to the banks; both ebb and flow. I have found a few, by trial and error, mostly error!
Sorry for the side track....now back to it!
__________________
Ray
"Mahalo Moi"
1986 GB-42 Classic
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑβΕ
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04-27-2016, 09:43 PM
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#28
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
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Maybe boating here in BC is easier. I don't use my bridle to reduce shock loads. I have the weight of the catenary in the chain for that. I use the bridle to eliminate the transfer of the noise of the chain rumbling across the bottom. Once there is a length of rope in the line, it really doesn't matter how much, that noise stops. Without it, the whole boat resonates with the noise from the chain over the bottom. Especially noticeable on a quiet night, at the change of tide.
Mine is a simple hook inserted into the chain so that when I stop letting it all out, it rests just above the water. The rope can be taken aboard through a hawse, or over the roller, really doesn't matter, then to a stout cleat or the Sampson post.
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04-27-2016, 09:59 PM
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#29
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Guru
City: Campbell River
Vessel Name: Blue Sky
Vessel Model: Nordic Tugs 42 Hull #001
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver
Maybe boating here in BC is easier. I don't use my bridle to reduce shock loads. I have the weight of the catenary in the chain for that. I use the bridle to eliminate the transfer of the noise of the chain rumbling across the bottom. Once there is a length of rope in the line, it really doesn't matter how much, that noise stops. Without it, the whole boat resonates with the noise from the chain over the bottom. Especially noticeable on a quiet night, at the change of tide.
Mine is a simple hook inserted into the chain so that when I stop letting it all out, it rests just above the water. The rope can be taken aboard through a hawse, or over the roller, really doesn't matter, then to a stout cleat or the Sampson post.
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Exactly what we do, for exactly the same reasons, although we use a simple snap shackle which ensures the hook stays put.
__________________
Conrad
Berthed in
Campbell River BC
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04-29-2016, 09:43 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Italy
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: Currently looking for next boat
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,081
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Shock loads
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c
IMO, it's not an either/or, it's both. The chain stopper (or Samson post, or bitt, or whatever) takes the load off the windlass... but it doesn't do squat for shock loads. The bridle helps manage shock loads on the working end of the chain.
-Chris
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Don't forget that the chain catinary provides most protection from shock.
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04-29-2016, 10:22 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver
Maybe boating here in BC is easier. I don't use my bridle to reduce shock loads. I have the weight of the catenary in the chain for that. I use the bridle to eliminate the transfer of the noise of the chain rumbling across the bottom. Once there is a length of rope in the line, it really doesn't matter how much, that noise stops. Without it, the whole boat resonates with the noise from the chain over the bottom. Especially noticeable on a quiet night, at the change of tide.
Mine is a simple hook inserted into the chain so that when I stop letting it all out, it rests just above the water. The rope can be taken aboard through a hawse, or over the roller, really doesn't matter, then to a stout cleat or the Sampson post.
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Sounds like you don't anchor in stronger winds. 20 knots+ (sometimes less) typically takes the catenary out of a properly sized chain rode. That's the difference.
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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04-29-2016, 10:32 PM
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#32
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
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"Sounds like you don't anchor in stronger winds. 20 knots+ (sometimes less) typically takes the catenary out of a properly sized chain rode. That's the difference."
Right you are. Where we boat, if you get any overnight wind, you will see the anchorages empty out as folks that are uncomfortable head for the nearest marina. I can't remember ever anchoring where I knew there would be wind as high as 20 knots overnight, If I thought that would be the case, I would keep going and find a more sheltered anchorage. We can do that here in BC.
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04-29-2016, 11:30 PM
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#33
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Wannabe
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 782
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Just last week I spent Thursday night at Paradise Cove before heading up the Napa River. Winds were gusting to 30kt most of the night. Definitely had the snubber on for that night.
Richard
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04-29-2016, 11:37 PM
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#34
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Wannabe
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 782
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This is a shot from a year ago. I think the winds were probably around 20kt or so - maybe a little higher. You can see the chain stretched out and my snubber taking the load.
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04-30-2016, 05:43 AM
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#35
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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"Right you are. Where we boat, if you get any overnight wind, you will see the anchorages empty out as folks that are uncomfortable head for the nearest marina. I can't remember ever anchoring where I knew there would be wind as high as 20 knots overnight, If I thought that would be the case, I would keep going and find a more sheltered anchorage. We can do that here in BC."
Koliver
Last September I was anchored outside your back door in Ganges and the wind came up cresting at gusts of 30 knots. Short scoped boats in this crowded anchorage were dragging and mating throughout the night.
At dawn the scene unfolded with mast and stay untangling struggles the routine for several hours. Damage was significant. The perps were all sailboats with light anchors and rope rodes showing at the bow.
Our suitably bridled Bruce did pretty good at a 5 to 1 scope but did drag about 40 feet. We were scope limited due to the other vessels around us. My wife's Christmas present was a heavier Vulcan. Mother's Day is coming up Koliver. I look forward to inspecting your new treat.
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04-30-2016, 05:46 AM
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#36
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Guru
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon J
Don't forget that the chain catinary provides most protection from shock.
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Well, yes, that too... until it doesn't. And at that point, jerk loads can be great enough to pop a chain stopper right off the boat...
Hence chain stopper (and chain), plus bridle...
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
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04-30-2016, 05:46 AM
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#37
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britannia
This is a shot from a year ago. I think the winds were probably around 20kt or so - maybe a little higher. You can see the chain stretched out and my snubber taking the load.
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30 knots? Pretty tame seas.
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04-30-2016, 08:07 AM
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#38
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Wannabe
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
30 knots? Pretty tame seas.
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No - this picture wasn't from last Thursday. I said 20kts which is what I remember for that evening. May have been closer to 15 when the picture was taken - there were whitecaps at some point.
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05-06-2016, 06:01 AM
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#39
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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"The chain stopper pawl on the windlass is the back up (although pretty wimpy) and the secondary back up is the windlass itself. "
A true chain stopper is bolted to the deck with the ability to stand a load that will snap the chain.
Expensive to install properly ,is why its seldom found on production boats
The pawl on a windlass is not a chain stopper , that's why its tiny and wimpy.
Windlass mfg do not suggest using the windlass as a anchoring point , only as an anchor recovery device.
A good snubber setup, can assist in removing all loads from a windlass.
A kellet ( anchor rode weight) works even better , but takes more effort to deploy.
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05-07-2016, 09:51 PM
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#40
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
The pawl on a windlass is not a chain stopper , that's why its tiny and wimpy.
Windlass mfg do not suggest using the windlass as a anchoring point , only as an anchor recovery device.
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This raised a question in my small brain. The windless should not be used as an anchor point. In my past boats, I always used a snubber with a chain hook to serve as the primary anchor point.
However, I always set the anchor without a snubber, using the windless to hold the anchor during the set. I'm sure I am not alone. What do y'all do?
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