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Old 11-23-2022, 11:03 AM   #41
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If you are going to try a new trick, try a $40 soft shackle first and see how you like it. If you don't like it, then drop $200- $300 on an M2 chain hook.
I’m gong to try a soft shackle.

In the meantime, the Ultra has worked well. I like its design and how it doesn’t pinch the chain in the wrong direction. Hasn’t ever come off either.

https://fehrwaymarine.ca/products/ultra-chain-grab

Like all Ultra gear, pricey but well made.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:30 PM   #42
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Not sure why you'd spend $200 on a chain hook. McMaster has a fine one for 3/8 chain at $43.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:46 PM   #43
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If you are going to try a new trick, try a $40 soft shackle first and see how you like it. If you don't like it, then drop $200- $300 on an M2 chain hook.
Yep, that or the Victory hook for similar coin.

Worked well for us with 6 years of daily anchoring and was on when we had 80+ knots.



https://www.48northmarine.com/snubbe...ictory-lg.html

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Old 11-23-2022, 01:54 PM   #44
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If you are going to try a new trick, try a $40 soft shackle first and see how you like it. If you don't like it, then drop $200- $300 on an M2 chain hook.
slowgoesit already has the M2 chain hook. The only thing that worries me about the soft shackle is friction/chafe. Do you think 90 tons, swinging on the hook in heavy winds, could use a soft shackle? I would think the soft shackle would start to heat up and melt at some point.
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Old 11-23-2022, 02:03 PM   #45
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Yep, that or the Victory hook for similar coin.

Worked well for us with 6 years of daily anchoring and was on when we had 80+ knots.



https://www.48northmarine.com/snubbe...ictory-lg.html

Very nice! Price is right too. Have you seen the WLL to these (1/2 inch)? It would be easy to attach some bungy cord to that loop to hold it to the chain.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:36 PM   #46
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slowgoesit already has the M2 chain hook. The only thing that worries me about the soft shackle is friction/chafe. Do you think 90 tons, swinging on the hook in heavy winds, could use a soft shackle? I would think the soft shackle would start to heat up and melt at some point.

I use one on a 100 ton boat, and I know others who use them on much heavier boats.


I'm looking at the chain hooks that people have posted and breaking strength ratings are conspicuously absent. Anyone seen ratings for any? SS is typically a lot lower strength than G4 chain. A soft shackle is load rated and it's MUCH higher than the break strength of the chain. I expect most chain hooks are a weak link, not a strong link.
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:07 PM   #47
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I use one on a 100 ton boat, and I know others who use them on much heavier boats.


I'm looking at the chain hooks that people have posted and breaking strength ratings are conspicuously absent. Anyone seen ratings for any? SS is typically a lot lower strength than G4 chain. A soft shackle is load rated and it's MUCH higher than the break strength of the chain. I expect most chain hooks are a weak link, not a strong link.
The Mantus M2 has a WLL of 9200 lbs and UBL of 37k. I used soft shackles for my 1,500 lb dinghy, but couldn't take it (psychologically). I switched over to chain and galvanized lifting hooks. I know the nylon and soft shackles are rated higher, but I kept thinking of chafe and UV breaking down the material.
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:26 PM   #48
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bkcorwin,
we’ve melted two 3/8” soft shackles (biggest size we can use based on our chain size)in the past few months. First was a 60 hour blow rafted to another boat, (another story) combined displacement 105 tons w/avg wind speed of 35 knots. Second was in a Hurricane but on its fringe so 50 knots max for an hour avg 25 for 14 hours. Seas were 4-5 in both instances. The main reason I want to source sk99 is because I’m skeptical about the lot I used to make these soft shackles. Free is often the most expensive option. Simply put there is an abundance of chineema on the market now and you need to pony up for the real stuff if you want to sleep at night. Another thing is the annual degradation of the fiber and the environmental issues. Seems that chineema doesn’t hold up to spec. We are only 65 tons but for named storms we won’t be using soft shackles for known storms without further testing.
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:34 PM   #49
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Over the years I have purchased almost every metal chain attachment device . Spent many hundreds of bucks on these . They were never completely suitable compared to a soft shackle (SS). Once I used the soft shackle I never used another metal attachment device. In addition to not having to worry about the metal devices falling off, the SS lets me attach the bridle on deck rather than hanging over the bow platform. I use a 1/4" SS (purchased from Amazon) on 5/16" G4 chain. The snubbers, which have metal thimbles at each end are threaded through the SS which is first threaded thru the chain.
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:51 PM   #50
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If you are going to try a new trick, try a $40 soft shackle first and see how you like it. If you don't like it, then drop $200- $300 on an M2 chain hook.

We've already got the M2 hook, so no additional cost. But the soft shackle is on the list to try as well!
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Old 11-24-2022, 08:22 AM   #51
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The Mantus M2 has a WLL of 9200 lbs and UBL of 37k. I used soft shackles for my 1,500 lb dinghy, but couldn't take it (psychologically). I switched over to chain and galvanized lifting hooks. I know the nylon and soft shackles are rated higher, but I kept thinking of chafe and UV breaking down the material.

I see it now, thanks. That's a good rating that matches the chain strength.
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:59 AM   #52
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Mantus published this back in 2016 so their older style? They also published the strength ratings of other brands as well, as reported by their manufacturer. ( Ultra seems the strongest. )

Mantus wrote a thoughtful discussion as well,

https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-...-data-revised/
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:06 AM   #53
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I like the mantus hook because I set the bridle up first and bring the hook up though the chain pass. Once I set the anchor I hook and let it feed back out with the chain.
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Old 11-24-2022, 11:26 AM   #54
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A more recent Mantus write up (2018) with their stronger M2, and why the hook doesn’t need to be as strong as the chain.

Why we think it’s acceptable to use a stainless steel chain hook inline with a snubber/bridle even if it’s not as as strong as the chain?

M2 Hook Size M2 Hook WLL M2 Hook UBS G3 Chain UBS G4 Chain UBS G7 Chain UBS
1/4 in (6-7mm) 1,686 lbs 6,744 lbs 5,200 lbs 7,800 lbs 13,650 lbs
5/16 in (8mm) 3,788 lbs 15,154 lbs 7,600 lbs 11,700 lbs 20,475 lbs
3/8 in (10mm) 5,516 lbs 22,066 lbs 10,600 lbs 16,200 lbs 28,350 lbs
1/2 in (12-13mm) 9,271 lbs 37,085 lbs 18,000 lbs 27,000 lbs 48,300 lbs


The Mantus M2 Hook is stronger than most chain grades on the market. Most stainless steel chain hooks are weaker than Grade 40 chain.

At first look, one might make an argument that stainless-steel hooks are too weak to use on snubbers and bridles, especially when using hi test chain. However, if you look at how a snubber is stressed and how these loads differ from the chain’s experiences in the absence of the snubber, we can see it is not. A typical 35-foot boat, according to ABYC loads table (see below), at 42 knots of wind can expect a load of 1800 lbs on its anchor rode and at 60 knots of wind a load of 3600 lbs. A typical 35-foot sailboat will be outfitted with 5/16″ chain WLL 1900 lbs and breaking strength of 7600 lbs. Most experts agree that these ABYC loads already include a 3-fold allotment for shock loading.

Therefore, the loads that use a properly sized snubber are a third of the loads reported below. This illuminates the importance of using the snubber line and explains why snubber design parameters are different than the design specifications for chain.

Shock loads produced without the use of the bridle or a snubber can create loads on the chain that are 3+ times the average load experienced by the chain. Worst case scenario, in a 60-knot blow, the shock load on the chain would produce an estimated load of 3600 lbs. The chain would be tasked with having a breaking strength 4 times the recommended working limit. If we were using the hook to connect two pieces of chain, the same requirement would be necessary.

Wind
Speed
(Knots) Anchor Name
Boat Length – Feet
20 25 30 35 40 50 60
15 Lunch Hook 90 125 175 225 300 400 500
30 Working 360 490 700 900 1200 1600 2000
42 Storm 500 720 1400 1800 2400 3200 4000
60 Violent Storm 980 1440 2800 3600 4800 6400 8000

Since we are using the hook to connect an elastic snubber to the chain, the shock loads are dissipated, and the snubbing hook will maintain loads a third of those reported in the ABYC table (1200 lbs vs 3600 lbs.)

Since the M2 Mantus Chain Hook is made from Duplex Stainless Steel, it has the Ultimate Breaking Strength somewhere between G4 and G7 chain. However, since its intent is to be used with a snubber, it is way over designed for the job. As an example, the 5/16″ M2 Mantus chain hook has the ultimate breaking strength of 15,154 lbs and has a working load of 3,788 lbs, which means it can be used on a 50-foot boat in 60 knots with a 5/16″ G70 Chain.
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Old 11-24-2022, 12:49 PM   #55
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I would think the soft shackle would start to heat up and melt at some point.
This is one of those concerns that goes away after a moment's reflection. My soft shackle connection is below the water surface. The melting point of Amsteel and similar is +260F. In order to melt the line used for a soft shackle, the water would need to boil around the connection point. I've never seen the water boil from using a chain hook or soft shackle. Anybody?

Same with UV concern, although it takes a little research. At a depth of 2.5cm (one inch), UV is attenuated by 33% at high noon in tropical saltwater (study linked below). Other times of day (and night), other latitudes, other water clarity, etc. can make a difference, but if your soft shackle is under water by several feet, the effect of UV is zero. If a soft shackle was left lying on deck all the time, after many days/weeks it might be as weak as your anchor chain. Cause for concern?

https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley...1989.34.8.1623
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Old 11-24-2022, 01:47 PM   #56
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Very nice! Price is right too. Have you seen the WLL to these (1/2 inch)?
I have seen real life WLL in the 80+ knots.

Chain never went through the chainwheel nicely after that so there was some slight immeasurable deformation of the 13mm chain and it had to be replaced.

Chain hook is still in use and been through several 50+ knot blows since

I should point out, that 80+ blow was soon after purchase and the snubber on the boat was a single 25mm polypropylene rope, so low stretch.

Since then we have replaced with single 20mm nylon.
Daily snubber with chain hook is 5m long
Storm snubber with heavy duty Galv eye and soft shackle is 10m
Quote:
It would be easy to attach some bungy cord to that loop to hold it to the chain.
Once we got the length of loop sorted we have never had an issue ( count of 10 winding chain out)
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Old 11-24-2022, 02:04 PM   #57
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Oh for sure. Definitely buy legit material from known suppliers. I would never suggest the cheap amazon dyneema for a bridle soft shackle (I do use it for lifting kayaks).

I mainly meant that sk75 would also work fine vs sk99.



Quote:
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bkcorwin,
we’ve melted two 3/8” soft shackles (biggest size we can use based on our chain size)in the past few months. First was a 60 hour blow rafted to another boat, (another story) combined displacement 105 tons w/avg wind speed of 35 knots. Second was in a Hurricane but on its fringe so 50 knots max for an hour avg 25 for 14 hours. Seas were 4-5 in both instances. The main reason I want to source sk99 is because I’m skeptical about the lot I used to make these soft shackles. Free is often the most expensive option. Simply put there is an abundance of chineema on the market now and you need to pony up for the real stuff if you want to sleep at night. Another thing is the annual degradation of the fiber and the environmental issues. Seems that chineema doesn’t hold up to spec. We are only 65 tons but for named storms we won’t be using soft shackles for known storms without further testing.
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Old 11-24-2022, 06:45 PM   #58
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Chain Hooks

All,

Thanks for chiming in. I was quite surprised by the number of positive responses regarding the soft shackle solution. There is some 7/16" AmSteel in route and I will do some spicing when it shows up.

This is a paradigm shift for me, but the simplicity of deployment/retrieval makes it well suited for the deck crew. It sure seems like a Ron Propeil "set it and forget it" solution.

Thanks all for your experienced input and insight.
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Old 11-24-2022, 08:56 PM   #59
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All,

Thanks for chiming in. I was quite surprised by the number of positive responses regarding the soft shackle solution. There is some 7/16" AmSteel in route and I will do some spicing when it shows up.

This is a paradigm shift for me, but the simplicity of deployment/retrieval makes it well suited for the deck crew. It sure seems like a Ron Propeil "set it and forget it" solution.

Thanks all for your experienced input and insight.

Let us know what you think after you have used it a couple of times.
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Old 11-26-2022, 09:31 AM   #60
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I use a Mantus M2 chain hook. A little pricey but a very well built piece. Matches the strength of your chain and has a strap to keep it from falling off. Won’t put damaging pull on a chain link. Google Mantus M2 chain hook.
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