Chain Hooks

[psneeld]

It looks to me from the photo that you need to tie a knot every time you use the Dyneema "chain hook." Is that correct? Then to remove it you need to untie the knot?

I made a dinghy lifting bridle of Dyneema for a friend. Lightweight and soft. He used it twice, then replaced it with SS wire rope. He (and me too) couldn't wrap his head around the fact that Dyneema is that kind of strong. I know it is, but it seems impossible.

Howard

no...the little loop is like a slip knot you can pull the knotted end through..

 

[caltexflanc]

no...the little loop is like a slip knot you can pull the knotted end through..

... and that is a form of tying a knot! Especially adding in looping through or around the chain and through the snubber eye. For those of us with not so great fine motor skills , that's an issue.

I've been using the single snubber with rolling hitch over the pulpit roller...what have you seen that's an issue if you don't mind???

1)Chafe by rubbing against the chain and when horsing, against edges of the chute.
2) If no samson post, having to run it around the windlass capstan (if you even have a capstan) to center it through the chute, putting some side loading on the windlass, especially during big blows and when using the snubber to break out the anchor.
3) As you are retrieving the rode, having to pull in the snubber line to avoid jamming
4) When breaking out the anchor, putting pressure on the pulpit.

 

[Noelex]

It looks to me from the photo that you need to tie a knot every time you use the Dyneema "chain hook." Is that correct? Then to remove it you need to untie the knot?

As Psneeld said there is no need to untie any knots.

All you do is push the knot through the loop. As the tension is applied the loop closes.

The string is used to open the loop

 

[psneeld]

... and that is a form of tying a knot! Especially adding in looping through or around the chain and through the snubber eye. For those of us with not so great fine motor skills , that's an issue.



1)Chafe by rubbing against the chain and when horsing, against edges of the chute.
2) If no samson post, having to run it around the windlass capstan (if you even have a capstan) to center it through the chute, putting some side loading on the windlass, especially during big blows and when using the snubber to break out the anchor.
3) As you are retrieving the rode, having to pull in the snubber line to avoid jamming
4) When breaking out the anchor, putting pressure on the pulpit.

thank you..fortunately none of those have been an issue with my boat..I'll keep them in mind

 

[dimer2]

"The Mantus is very appealing. "

The new Mantus chain hook has a little locking lever that prevents the chain accidentally dislodging. The one I bought last year did not and although I have never had a problem will probably add this feature to mine.

 

[caltexflanc]

As Psneeld said there is no need to untie any knots.

All you do is push the knot through the loop. As the tension is applied the loop closes.

The string is used to open the loop

Having used soft shackles a bit, I have to disagree. And again, I have some fine motor skill challenges so it is amplified in my case.

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics, but that is tying a knot, running a bitter end through a loop and tightening in a certain fashion, then that pulling apart to untie. Now add to the "tying process" first feeding the line through the pad eye or (especially) a chain link and an eye/thimble, and I am really in the knot tying and untying business. Perhaps not such a big deal for the more adept, but add in tying it while kneeling down on a moving boat deck, and personally it's fuggadditaboutit time for me. But to each their own; once in place the soft shackle in this application would have some advantages as noted.

 

[FF]

>I'm considering moving to an all chain rode. I have a small boat at 28' & 8,500lbs.<

How do you plan on scrubbing the chain after each use to keep the stench of dead critters in the mud out of the boat???

On a larger boat a 1inch deck power wash and a scrub brush works .

But on a 28 ft boat its going to be crowded at the bow as you raise the chain and scrub it before going down the chain hole.

Storing it on deck stops the stench has hassles with most capstans requiring the weight of the chain to stay engaged.

 

[High Wire]

Another "10 minute project" for this season. The first mate will get the Manson Hook.

 

[cafesport]

All snubbers a are a p.i.a. That said they become necessary when you use an all chain rode or wish to anchor ahull for various reasons.

On your boat I wouldn't add more chain you already have a perfect set up. On my sportfishing boat I only use the boats length in chain and the rest is nylon brait. But since you asked about hooks I'll add my 2 cents.

I've used the wichard, the mantus, the eye, soft shackles and of course the rolling hitch. My preference is the simple eye hook. The problems most people experience with them falling off stems from not allowing enough of a bight of free chain to hang bellow the attachment point. Sea flywright'a photo. If you can't drive your dinghy through the bight you need to let out more chain. The excess chain acts like a kellet and adds more dampening to the rode plus it keeps the hook attached.


Via iPhone.

 

[Marin]

The problems most people experience with them [chain hooks] falling off stems from not allowing enough of a bight of free chain to hang bellow the attachment point.

This is very true. We use a V-bridle snubber with the chain gripper plate I illustrated some posts back. We were taught to first let out let out enough chain between the gripper and the pulpit roller to keep the chain securely in the gripper slot.

Then we let out enough chain while feeding out the two snubber lines to put the gripper plate a good ten feet or so below the surface of the water.

Finally, we let out more chain so the bight hangs a good fifteen feet or more below the gripper plate. Besides ensuring that the chain stays firmly in the slot, this also helps lower the angle of pull on the anchor.

We put the gripper on the chain in such a way that when the anchor is retrieved, when the slack comes out of the chain the gripper falls off the chain to hang below the bow of the boat out of the way of the incoming chain. Once the anchor is stowed on the pulpit, we pull up the V-bridle with the gripper plate.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Disagree; you want something that will stretch, that's the whole point.

Exactly! Using a line with little or no stretch defeats one of the main purposes of using a snubber. Unless of course you add some type of stretchy strain releaving rubber mooring snubber to the lines.

 

[Noelex]

Exactly! Using a line with little or no stretch defeats one of the main purposes of using a snubber.

The soft shackles are only a few inches long. They are used as a means of attaching the nylon snubber to the chain. As you point out, Dyneema is no good as a snubber. It needs to be nylon for the stretch. Evans Starzinger, who I think initially came up with idea of using soft shackles for this purpose, has done some work on creating the ideal snubber. It consists of some Dyneeema used where the line goes over the bow roller. Dyneema has fantastic chafe resistance which is ideal for this role. This is followed by a long length of nylon for the necessary stretch connected to the chain via a soft shackle. You can of course rig the same idea as a bridle if this is applicable for your boat.

The "ideal" snubber is overkill for most applications, but it has a lot of merit for extreme conditions. The main drawback is that adjusting the snubber length is difficult.

While on the subject of extreme conditions the use of two independent snubbers is worth considering. With one left slight loose as a reserve. Chafe is very good at eating away through nylon. If you are using a small diameter snubber, as you should be, there is little strength margin for even small amounts of chafe. A broken snubber particularly if there is loop of chain will cause the boat to come to a very abrupt stop if the boat gathers a bit of momentum and is stopped by the non elastic chain.

 

[Shrew]

How do you plan on scrubbing the chain after each use to keep the stench of dead critters in the mud out of the boat???

On a larger boat a 1inch deck power wash and a scrub brush works .

I'm already using 30 ft. of chain now. That 30 ft. is is on the anchor end of the rode, and therefore is the part that is most frequently in contact with the seabed. Mud has not been an issue to date.

I suspect this is a regional issue. I cruise in a relatively fixed radius, and the places I go don't typically have the slime you're concerned about.

 

[Stickman]

So I'm embarrassed to ask, but you tie/untie the knot in the Dyneema each time?

 

[dhays]

So I'm embarrassed to ask, but you tie/untie the knot in the Dyneema each time?

I have asked more silly questions than anyone here. So never worry.

I am not sure to what you are referring. If you mean the soft shackle, then no. Some of us use a soft shackle to connect the snubber or bridle to the chain. A soft shackle is made up ahead of time and is reused. It simply has a knot on one end and a loop on the other. The knot is inserted through the loop and the shackle will not come loose. The shackles are easy to make and are inexpensive. Here is a photo of one I made that is pretty typical.

 

[Delfin]

So I'm embarrassed to ask, but you tie/untie the knot in the Dyneema each time?

As Dhays states, if you use a soft shackle, you attach it each time you deploy the snubber and detach it on retrieval. These are generally stronger than the chain, and are pretty easy to make. This video helps explain how:

http://www.animatedknots.com/softshackle/index.php

What they don't show here is the desirability of really cinching down on the stop knot. I use the hydraulic hoist to put a lot of pressure on the knot before trimming the ends.

This solution depends on a snubber with a cringle on the end that allows you to attach the snubber to the chain with the soft shackle.

 

[Montenido]

I've always gotten by with two lines, one from each side, secured to my all chain rode with rolling hitches. I have 50' lines, and generally use about 25' per side. This allows me to pay out more rode without having to read-tie the rolling hitches if needed. Sure, it is a bit of a pain, but the hitches work well, and never fall off.

Cheer, Bill

 

[dhays]

I've always gotten by with two lines, one from each side, secured to my all chain rode with rolling hitches. I have 50' lines, and generally use about 25' per side. This allows me to pay out more rode without having to read-tie the rolling hitches if needed. Sure, it is a bit of a pain, but the hitches work well, and never fall off.

Cheer, Bill

At first I created a very heavy double braid pendant with a splice galvanized eye in one end. I used a soft shackle to connect it to the two nylon eyes of the legs of my bridle. I then just tied the pendent to the chain with a rolling hitch. It worked fine. After a while I found it just easier to use a dyneema loop and soft shackle to connect to the chair.

 

[foggysail]

I do not advise using a standard chain hook like the "eye grab" pictured in RTF's summary. They tend to twist the chain and its link. Also the easiest to fall off, as I learned on a couple of charters, finally substituting a rolling hitch.

I had the ABI pictured, but I don't think it is made any more. Served us extremely well in hundreds of nights including some terrible conditions. But so did a rolling hitch (or two) for that matter, which preceded a friend giving me the ABI as a present. I liked the double bridle aspect; the boat tends to lay to one line or the other as it horses, except in big blows, when you get both taut. But so did a rolling hitch (or two) for that matter, which preceded a friend giving me the ABI as a present. Something like the Mantus or the devil's claw types:

From Defender:

C.S. Johnson Captain Hook Chain Snubber with Nylon Rope - Small
C.S. Johnson Captain Hook Chain Snubber with Nylon Rope - Small
Item # : 000141

Chain Size: 1/4" and 5/16"
Includes: 12' of 1/2" 3-Strand Nylon with Spliced Eye
Material: T-316 Stainless Steel
Model Number: 46-465 Features:
C.S. Johnson 46-465 Captain Hook Small Chain Snubber with Nylon Rope
Chain Size: 1/4" and 5/16"
Includes: 12 feet of 1/2" 3-Strand Nylon line with a... more...
$84.99
List Price:
$110.50
Our Price:
$84.99

 

[BruceK]

Fisheries Supply have a "Sea Dog" flat ss plate with a U groove in which the chain sits. It`s good. You attach 2 lines to it which go back to the cleat.
I don`t like the bear claw hook type, uneven loading of the chain imo but in fairness, mine never failed or broke the chain.

 

[FF]

Sailboat snap shackels are plenty strong and with some heat shrink to keep the chain galvanizing are hard to beat.

Best of all there so cheap that a number of lines of different thickness can be made up.

The 1/4 inch nylon will usually work up to about 15K , where a bit thicker line would be better for the smoothest ride.

Remember the line will not begin to work till at 10% or so if the lines breaking strength, which is a high number even with thin line.

Protect thin line from chafe.

 

[macka17]

Go to a Chain supplier for rigging and cranes etc.
Ask for a "chain CLAW". they are a casting with eye at top for shackle.
Like two fingers bent drawing a bow string. eye where thumb is.
I've used them for 40 odd yrs. (Crane operator)
They are on the ends of "chain dogs" for the chains on trucks that carry Plant and machinery too.

 

[Drake]

I just learned that Mantus is coming out with a new design chain hook that won’t come loose when the chain goes slack. I saw a prototype and it looks really cool. My understanding is that it should be available in a couple of months. Can’t wait to try it out.

 

[FF]

A good sized sail boat snap shakle works fine ,

is strong enough and does not disconnect by it self as the simple hooks can.

 

[caltexflanc]

A good sized sail boat snap shakle works fine ,

is strong enough and does not disconnect by it self as the simple hooks can.

If you can find one that will fit through your chain. I once had this idea and couldn't find one. Have an example?

I didn't have an issue with using a "U" shaped plate; the lazy loop behind the hook coupled with the weight of the main rode seemed to keep it in place.

 

[stubones99]

I just learned that Mantus is coming out with a new design chain hook that won’t come loose when the chain goes slack. I saw a prototype and it looks really cool. My understanding is that it should be available in a couple of months. Can’t wait to try it out.

This one?
https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-chain-hook/

 

[FF]

If you can find one that will fit through your chain. I once had this idea and couldn't find one. Have an example?

In coral areas we use 3/8 chain and have had no problems with a SS snap shakel.

The old bronze #4 are too big , but they are antiques , tho strong.

 

[Drake]

This one?
https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-chain-hook/

No, that one has been on the market for some time. We’ve been using it and it’s effective. But, it’s cumbersome and can be difficult to put on and take off, especially in rough weather. Their new design is completely different. Looks like it will be a lot easier to use.

 

[twistedtree]

I have used a couple of different chain hooks and they all tend to drop off unless you maintain tension on the line at all times.

Then I discovered soft shackles and they are awesome. Easy to connect and disconnect, and they will run over a bow roller without drama. They will never fall off, slack or not, and can easily thread through a chain link. And unlike a snap shackle that will fit through a chain link, they have a load rating equal or higher than the chain itself. It's among the best $30 I've ever spent.

 

[Delfin]

I have used a couple of different chain hooks and they all tend to drop off unless you maintain tension on the line at all times.

Then I discovered soft shackles and they are awesome. Easy to connect and disconnect, and they will run over a bow roller without drama. They will never fall off, slack or not, and can easily thread through a chain link. And unlike a snap shackle that will fit through a chain link, they have a load rating equal or higher than the chain itself. It's among the best $30 I've ever spent.

And, they don't chip paint or fiberglass when they hit the hull. I have never understood the use of a chain hook, given a superior option. Soft shackles are also very easy to make yourself if you wish.