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Old 06-09-2021, 09:40 PM   #1
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Anchoring a Grand Banks Europe 52

This is also posted on FB Grand Banks Forum - but still looking for advice.

Let's talk anchors: We have a new to us GB Europa 52 with a CQR 75 pound anchor, galvanized. The PO had issues anchoring and decided that wasn't for him.

Looking at the reviews I see comments such as:
From a modern perspective, performance issues with the CQR are evident in all metrics which define a good all-round anchor, including inconsistent setting performance (commonly not setting at all), poor holding in soft bottoms, and failure to penetrate in hard ground.

For those of you that have a 43'+ GB or similar weight, mass and windage, what do you use? and is it effective? We have (unverified) 220' of chain.

Thanks, - Jim
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Old 06-09-2021, 10:56 PM   #2
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From personal experience, added to the feed-back from many other owners, I think the general view would be that the CQR type anchor is way past its best by date, in spite of it still being commonly used.

As the saying goes, 'an anchor never fails...until it does', and so many make dead sure they are seldom exposed to anything near to a potentially extreme situation, they never experience such a failure, so often continue to swear by them. But, the deficiency of design compared to the new generation anchors is present - always..!

My recommendation is you explore the evidence now available regarding the new generation, (sometimes called next-gen), anchors, and look to get the recommended size by one of those manufacturers for your vessel, which surely deserves good gear.
In no particular order one could consider...

Manson Supreme (including their Boss)
Sarca Excel (including their Super Sarca)
Rocna, (including their Vulcan)
Spade
Mantus

...just to name a few of these. Also I urge your to look up the 'anchor testing videos' down by the owner of the Yacht 'Panope', which can be accessed here...


Above all, make this search fun...
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:03 PM   #3
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Posting about anchors is always potentially contentious, but here goes...

On our GB46eu (with extended bimini and flybridge clears, so lots of windage), we use a stainless steel Ultra anchor and 100 metres of stainless chain.

Never dragged anchor once in the 7 years or so of ownership.

Expensive set up, but it works every time.

H.
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:35 AM   #4
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“I think the general view would be that the CQR type anchor is way past its best by date, in spite of it still being commonly used.”
So whats changed?
The CQR seems to work just fine when properly set. As do most anchors. Yes there may be a particular location / holding ground where one anchor works better than the other. The CQR has been around for quite some time and performs well. It’s a new boat to you. I would concentrate On being sure the anchor is the recommended size for your boat, you know how to properly set the anchor, you are taking the type of holding ground into account, and you are using the proper amount of scope. I’d be willing to bet that most anchoring failures are do to the above / operator error as opposed to the actual type / brand of anchor. Any anchor is nothing more than a tool and must be properly used as per its design characteristics.
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Old 06-10-2021, 06:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrisHamish View Post
Posting about anchors is always potentially contentious, but here goes...

On our GB46eu (with extended bimini and flybridge clears, so lots of windage), we use a stainless steel Ultra anchor and 100 metres of stainless chain.

Never dragged anchor once in the 7 years or so of ownership.

Expensive set up, but it works every time.

H.
I have a much smaller boat but also have an Ultra and recommend it. I also have their flip swivel and SS chain/nylon. Expensive yes, but probably among the best anchors you can buy. I notice they are becoming very popular on high-end boats. There are others of similar design that I would think work similarly well. People like to joke about the Ultra saying "it sets when it hits the water."
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:03 AM   #6
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There is a TF member with extensive GB52 handling experience, incl anchoring, who may contribute.
It`s not all anchor & rode, technique is important too.
Anchor design has moved on since the venerable CQR and as PeterB says above, there is more than one good anchor. Sarca have a deserved reputation as high holding modern anchors.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:19 AM   #7
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"Looking at the reviews I see comments such as:
From a modern perspective, performance issues with the CQR are evident in all metrics which define a good all-round anchor, including inconsistent setting performance (commonly not setting at all), poor holding in soft bottoms, and failure to penetrate in hard ground."

For decades the CQR , and H series Danforth has been the anchor of choice for world cruisers.Of course if its undersized , there will be more hassles than if the correct one was used.

Most of the "opinions" spouted about early anchors are from folks that never lived with the style.


Caviat Emptor of BS still is valid.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"Looking at the reviews I see comments such as:
From a modern perspective, performance issues with the CQR are evident in all metrics which define a good all-round anchor, including inconsistent setting performance (commonly not setting at all), poor holding in soft bottoms, and failure to penetrate in hard ground."

For decades the CQR , and H series Danforth has been the anchor of choice for world cruisers.Of course if its undersized , there will be more hassles than if the correct one was used.

Most of the "opinions" spouted about early anchors are from folks that never lived with the style.


Caviat Emptor of BS still is valid.

In general, the CQR is still a serviceable design, but plenty of the ones out there have worn out pivots, which makes them work a whole lot worse. And most of the newer designs do work better and more easily. So while I wouldn't necessarily rush to replace a generously sized CQR (which 75 lbs is not on a 50 footer in my opinion), I'd at least consider an upgrade, and if it proved to work less than great or needed replacement for any reason, it's time to go for something of modern design. It's not like a new CQR is any cheaper than some of the modern designs anyway.

The Danforth (and good copies including the Fortress) is a unique class. There are situations it's not well suited to (so it's not ideal as a primary anchor in most places), but for the things it does well, it works extremely well. In terms of straight line holding power in a bottom where a Danforth will set reliably or for holding in really soft mud, nothing will beat it, not even the fanciest, newest designs.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
My recommendation is you explore the evidence now available regarding the new generation, (sometimes called next-gen), anchors, and look to get the recommended size by one of those manufacturers for your vessel, which surely deserves good gear.
In no particular order one could consider...

Manson Supreme (including their Boss)
Sarca Excel (including their Super Sarca)
Rocna, (including their Vulcan)
Spade
Mantus

I'd add the SuperMAX to that list. And Hamish added the Ultra, and RSL added the Danforth (Fortress) option.

FWIW, I've had best luck with SuperMAX and Fortress... but our conditions here are very mud-, soft-mud-, soup-, and slime-centric so our anchor choices have been focused heavily on that.

-Chris
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:47 AM   #10
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The CQR was an okay anchor in it's day, but the new scoop anchors are far better. Our boat is only 42 feet and 40,000 pounds and we carry an 88 pound Mantis and 250 feet of 5/16 G4 chain (and about 400 feet of 3/4 inch 3 strand nylon for backup (with a large Danforth (can't recall the weight).

We don't drag.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:44 AM   #11
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A walk along the docks in any marina will allow you to see how many of each type of anchor mentioned here, are in use by mariners of every level of experience.
As I do this where I boat, the most common anchors that are in use are the older designs, CQR, Bruce, Danforth. Then in much reduced numbers the Delta style and last, the ones with a roll bar, like Rockna.
That tells me that very few people are dissatisfied with the performance of their old style anchors, so those remain on bows.
In your area, results may vary.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
A walk along the docks in any marina will allow you to see how many of each type of anchor mentioned here, are in use by mariners of every level of experience.
As I do this where I boat, the most common anchors that are in use are the older designs, CQR, Bruce, Danforth. Then in much reduced numbers the Delta style and last, the ones with a roll bar, like Rockna.
That tells me that very few people are dissatisfied with the performance of their old style anchors, so those remain on bows.
In your area, results may vary.

At least in my area, this isn't even remotely a good test. The vast majority of boats have whatever undersized anchor the boat came with when it was built. The vast majority aren't cruisers and rarely anchor, or only anchor for a few hours during the day in near perfect weather, so they could probably get adequate performance from a small rock with a string tied to it.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:10 AM   #13
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49ft MT. I boat in the Potomac and Chesapeake areas. 50ft of chain and a 45lb fluke is all I use. Also grabs right away. Mud bottom though. That is only a day or simple overnight anchor. By no means a storm anchor. I carry two more just like it.
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:56 PM   #14
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Ditch the CQR (old fashion design, drags) and get a Spade (tried and tested and one of Panope's Steve favourites).
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Old 06-11-2021, 04:35 PM   #15
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At least in my area, this isn't even remotely a good test. The vast majority of boats have whatever undersized anchor the boat came with when it was built. The vast majority aren't cruisers and rarely anchor, or only anchor for a few hours during the day in near perfect weather, so they could probably get adequate performance from a small rock with a string tied to it.
I agree with this assessment. Most boats at most docks are fairly older to begin with and most probably have whatever anchor came with the boat. Also, many boaters never anchor anyway, or very seldom, so I wouldn't assume they are satisfied with their anchors.

I've cruised many years with a Danforth and never had a real problem. As someone said, in ideal conditions and with a straight pull, it holds better than anything and I have experienced that. However, I have also had it pull out from a sideways force and sometimes they will drag some before resetting, especially if the wind changes in the middle of the night. I did not have any issues with another boat that came with a good sized plow anchor. My latest boat which is relatively new (2012) came with a Danforth that I thought was marginal in size at best and did have it drag more than once in the first season. I soon upgraded to an Ultra which has yet to set instantly whenever I use it and I always wake up in the same spot I went to sleep.
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Old 06-11-2021, 06:43 PM   #16
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Owned a 52 GB. We used a 65lb CQR with 300 feet of chain. Never had a problem.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
A walk along the docks in any marina will allow you to see how many of each type of anchor mentioned here, are in use by mariners of every level of experience.
As I do this where I boat, the most common anchors that are in use are the older designs, CQR, Bruce, Danforth. Then in much reduced numbers the Delta style and last, the ones with a roll bar, like Rockna.
That tells me that very few people are dissatisfied with the performance of their old style anchors, so those remain on bows.
In your area, results may vary.
This is Bias masquerading as fact. Most of those boats never leave the dock let alone anchor. A more accurate test would be to look at anchors of boats rigged for extended cruising- the “active” cruisers carry modern design anchors incl. Rocna/Vulcan, Ultra, Mantus, Spade etc. or original “Bruce” with a surprising number of Fortress as primary if sand is most common.
Personally, I think Steve’s (SV Panope) vids tell a compelling story.
One caveat, if you have a vertical capstan windlass (as I do) when you upgrade, look carefully at the shank length relative to the distance from bow roller to capstan -especially if you do not have a chain stopper. The longer shank can lift the chain from the vertical Gypsy and relaunch the anchor just prior to full retrieval!
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:58 PM   #18
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This is Bias masquerading as fact. Most of those boats never leave the dock let alone anchor. A more accurate test would be to look at anchors of boats rigged for extended cruising- the “active” cruisers carry modern design anchors incl. Rocna/Vulcan, Ultra, Mantus, Spade etc. or original “Bruce” with a surprising number of Fortress as primary if sand is most common.

Exactly. I always say it's easy to tell the cruising boats apart from the rest. The anchors are (relatively speaking) twice the size and they're far more likely to have things like solar panels.
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
A walk along the docks in any marina will allow you to see how many of each type of anchor mentioned here, are in use by mariners of every level of experience.
As I do this where I boat, the most common anchors that are in use are the older designs, CQR, Bruce, Danforth. Then in much reduced numbers the Delta style and last, the ones with a roll bar, like Rockna.
That tells me that very few people are dissatisfied with the performance of their old style anchors, so those remain on bows.
In your area, results may vary.
A walk along our docks and a look at the anchors immediately tells me who anchors out a lot on all conditions, and who doesn’t.

We were anchored at a Blue Angel show a few years ago when a strong front came through. 95 per cent of the boats anchored were dragging. Not us.

Look at the anchors of those who cruise a lot. That tells the story.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:27 PM   #20
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GB42 and used CQR for years, rather variable experience - I never trusted it. Replaced with a big Fortress and a 72-pound Rocna. The Fortress on mud setting was for real sloppy bottoms, although the Rocna was fine there too.
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