Anchor and windlass questions

[SeaDogAK]

We have a couple of issues with our anchor and windlass setup that I’d like advice about. Boat is a Defever 49, Maxwell 2200 vertical windlass, 110 pound claw anchor. I think we have 400’ of 3/8 inch chain. I attached some pictures below, not sure why the one of the gypsy is upside down.

First, the chain stopper is shot. The pawl turns around the wrong way and catches occasionally when bringing in the anchor, jolting the windlass, which can’t be good for it. I need to install a new chain stopper. There are a lot of different types, and I’d appreciate some advice about the best kind.

Second, the chain slips on the gypsy when pulling it in, usually a handful of times if I’m pulling in 200’ of chain. I’m not sure if the gypsy is worn or if I’m getting twists on the chain.

Third and possibly related, the anchor regularly comes up the wrong way around and it’s really difficult to get it turned around so that it will pull in to stow.

Two possible fixes are a new gypsy or a swivel on the anchor. Either will cost a few hundred dollars so I want to try to figure out what the problem is before starting to spend money.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Flatswing]

Yes u definitely need a new chain stopper.
Commonest cause for chain jumping Gypsy on my vertical Maxwell is the chain bunching up at the deck port to the anchor locker.

 

[SteveK]

WAG. The first picture looks like the chain is oversized, sitting high.

 

[Simi 60]

Wrong chain or wrong wheel for sure

 

[magna 6882]

always tough with pictures but looks like 5/16 gypsy with 3/8 chain

 

[North Baltic sea]

Hi,

most anchors turn correctly when you drive a little backwards, with the anchor slightly in the water, when the anchor is turned correctly you lift up

NBs

 

[sunchaser]

SD
With boat hook in hand and foot ready on the rise button, I grab the anchor just before it enters the bow roller and rotate if necessary then raise it. A bit of foot, hand and eye coordination is required. Our DF foredeck setup is nearly identical to yours so reaching over the bow rail is easy and safe.

 

[DennisB1]

The pawl on the stopper is broken. It would be turned upside down if not broken. The gypsie is the wrong size for the chain. I have a 120 lb vulcan anchor and use a ultra swivel which works great flipping the anchor. Expensive yes but solves handling a heavy anchor

 

[SoWhat]

Wrong chain or wrong wheel for sure

Far less expensive to change the gypsy

 

[RickyD]

Wow, I have the same windlass and the same worn stopper that I don't use anymore. I'm about ready to replace it so looking for recommendations here.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I have the same set up with 500 ft of chain. The chain stop is a ss bolt. I also have safety lines, one for the anchor, the other the chain.

As far as the chain gypsy, take the gypsy off. Flip it over and you will see a number imprinted. Call Maxwell with the number and they tell you the proper chain size for that gypsy.

 

[Comodave]

I was trying to figure out exactly what size chain is on our boat. Formula sent me the original chain size. Acco sent me a chart with the measurements of the chain. None seemed to be correct. It sure appears to be the original chain since it is bolted up out of reach in the chain locker. Hum…

 

[AlanT]

I was trying to figure out exactly what size chain is on our boat. Formula sent me the original chain size. Acco sent me a chart with the measurements of the chain. None seemed to be correct. It sure appears to be the original chain since it is bolted up out of reach in the chain locker. Hum…

If the bitter end is bolted to the boat you might consider unbolting it and instead attaching it to the locker with a length of 3 strand long enough that you can cut it free if ever you need to lose your anchor/chain in a hurry. I'd hate to hook a submarine with my anchor chain bolted to the locker

~A

 

[AlanT]

First, the chain stopper is shot. The pawl turns around the wrong way and catches occasionally when bringing in the anchor, jolting the windlass, which can’t be good for it. I need to install a new chain stopper. There are a lot of different types, and I’d appreciate some advice about the best kind.

As noted the flapper stopper is broken and has been jury rigged upside down so that the broken rough surface is acting as a stopper. You can remove the pin securing the broken stopper and simply replace with the same. If you can't buy the part buy the whole stopper and just use the pin/flapper parts.
~A

 

[SeaDogAK]

The chain looks like it’s stamped “3 8” or “3 B.” I suspect that means 3/8” but I’m not 100% sure. I couldn’t find any listing of anchor chain stamps and what they mean. Next step is to take the gypsy off and look for a number on it.

 

[Comodave]

If the bitter end is bolted to the boat you might consider unbolting it and instead attaching it to the locker with a length of 3 strand long enough that you can cut it free if ever you need to lose your anchor/chain in a hurry. I'd hate to hook a submarine with my anchor chain bolted to the locker

~A

Unfortunately it is way out of reach. I carry a cordless grinder in case I would have to dump the chain. This winter I will drop all the chain and cut it in order to splice in some line. Right now we are not anchoring so it would only be in case we lost all power that we would use the anchor.

 

[twistedtree]

I agree with others about the issues that are visible.


1) The chain stopper is broken with the end that engages the chain broken off.


2) Your gypsy and chain are incompatible sizes. That's why the chain is skipping on the wheel.


As for the anchor orientation when bringing it back aboard, a swivel is one solution. But personally I have found that swivels allow the anchor to get twisted in the first place just as much as they enable you to untwist them afterwards. And as your anchor gets heavier, getting a hanging anchor to swivel back into alignment is much easier said than done. So I abandoned swivels a long time ago.


Instead of a swivel, have a groove cut in your bow roller so there is a slot for the vertical chain links to ride in as the chain goes over the roller. That will keep the chain straight from gypsy, to roller, to anchor. Then when raising the anchor, gravity will cause the anchor to align with the chain and it will always come aboard the right way around.


The only thing you need to do is make sure that when you are bringing the chain in, you keep the bow pointed towards the chain so it comes straight to the bow. If you let it get way off to the side, then you can roll the chain on the roller, and mess up the alignment. But it's not hard to do, and much better than a chain that is just as likely to come wrong as right because the swivel allows it, and much easier than trying get a dangling anchor to swivel on a joint that is packed with sand and mud and doesn't really want to swivel under load.

 

[DavidM]

If you do end up replacing the chain, and my guess is about 50/50 that it is the wrong size for the gypsy I would upgrade the chain. BBB chain is a common type and is made from normal tensile strength steel and has a maximum working load limit of 2650 lbs.

That is kind of light for a 49' boat with a 110 lb claw anchor. That anchor should hold at least 5,000 lbs in good setting conditions and you want your chain to approximately match the anchor holding capacity.

So I would upgrade to 3/8" Grade 43 (G$) chain and a new gypsy to match. It has a WLL of 5,400 lbs. Unfortunately, it will cost you about $1,200 at 1st Chain Supply.

Of course you could just replace the gypsy with one that matches your 3/8" BBB for a lot less and be done with it.

David

 

[wkearney99]

We have a vertical maxwell on our boat. There were several series of them and it was not uncommon for unfamiliar 'technicians' to service them incorrectly. Basically assembling a later one using earlier model parts/instructions. That was what was wrong with ours. Once I got the correct parts it all went back together properly.

Get a look at the underside of the post from the windlass, where it goes through the gearbox mounted under it. There's a circlip that holds the post down. Mine rusted out and allowed the post to 'climb' just enough to cause the clutches to slip.

Proper periodic maintenance of the windlass is often ignored. If you're uncertain of the last time yours was done, plan on re-doing, the sooner the better. Doesn't take much, just some grease and possibly replacing some pads/spring parts inside the clutch assembly.

As for chain retention, I just use a snap clip and some dyneema cord attached to a d-ring in our anchor pulpit. Previous boats had those angled chain stops and I never really liked them. The 'least worst' one had a pin you had to pull to allow the 'shoe' to come out of the frame. But it had some flimsy stainless wires attached to the pin ring and shoe, and those tended to break and need replacing more often than I liked. I hated the flip-around kind for the reason you mention.

I wonder if you could get away with removing the existing 'axle' through the bracket on your stopper and replacing it with a snap-pin? Run a snap pin through an open part of a chain link. But I don't know if there's enough clearance inside the links for a snap pin that would hold in that frame if the existing bolt is too large.

We had the left type. The right type was one that gave me the snap-pin idea.

 

[Simi 60]

personally I have found that swivels allow the anchor to get twisted in the first place just as much as they enable you to untwist them afterwards. And as your anchor gets heavier, getting a hanging anchor to swivel back into alignment is much easier said than done. So I abandoned swivels a long time ago.


Instead of a swivel, have a groove cut in your bow roller so there is a slot for the vertical chain links to ride in as the chain goes over the roller. That will keep the chain straight from gypsy, to roller, to anchor. Then when raising the anchor, gravity will cause the anchor to align with the chain and it will always come aboard the right way around.


The only thing you need to do is make sure that when you are bringing the chain in, you keep the bow pointed towards the chain so it comes straight to the bow. If you let it get way off to the side, then you can roll the chain on the roller, and mess up the alignment. But it's not hard to do, and much better than a chain that is just as likely to come wrong as right because the swivel allows it, and much easier than trying get a dangling anchor to swivel on a joint that is packed with sand and mud and doesn't really want to swivel under load.

Same for us
Simple solution
Simple fix
Carved the groove in ours with a grinder whilst onboard.

6 years of full time anchoring and twist is a non issue.

 

[sunchaser]

The OP's vessel like most other DeFevers lacks a bow pulpit. So when retrieving the anchor the experience factor for that specific boat is important. If too impatient, just hitting the up switch hoping for proper alignment leads to eventual bow damage. With a vertical Maxwell too much chain rise when the anchor breaks over the bow can result in the chain slipping up off the gypsy and down goes all the chain.

Each vessel has its own best way to retrieve the hook. Having done 100s of retrievals on our DeFever we are still with a surprise or two. David M, while you are technically correct on the WLL of 3/8" BBB, the safety factor or breaking point for fresh chain is many times more.

As noted by others, the right gypsy, new pawl and adequate gain stopper are in order. SeaDog, while you're at it service that windlass by the book especially new seals. Our 2200's seals gave up the ghost after about 15 years. The book says 3, silly me. Our motor made it for 18 years. The old one was rebuilt and a new one installed.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Here a nice article on removing and replacing a windlass.

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/...ErE&utm_content=221874822&utm_source=hs_email

 

[Shrew]

That looks like you have a 3/8" chain on a 5/16" gypsy. The specs for the 2200 show it can handled from 5/16" - 7/16". I believe that, much like Lewmar, you would need a 3/8" gypsy for a Maxwell 2200 in order to run 3/8" chain. Just because the specs on the windlass say it can handle 3/8" doesn't mean that gypsy installed can.

The PO on my boat did the exact same thing and it destroyed the gypsy.

 

[High Wire]

The OP pictures show there is already a swivel installed. Perhaps it is not functioning properly. We do not have a swivel at all. Rarely we have to poke the anchor with a boat pole while hanging to orient it properly.

 

[SeaDogAK]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Here’s my action plan:

1. Clearly I need a new chain stopper. I’m inclined to just replace it with the same Lewmar, mostly to avoid drilling new holes. Possibly I could keep the old housing and switch out the pawl from the new one.

2. Next step is to pull the gypsy and see if it has a number on it identifying its intended chain size.

3. The chain appears to be 3/8 BBB, though I’ll measure it to be sure. If it fits the gypsy, then the gypsy might be worn, so I might need to get a new gypsy either way. A new gypsy is about $600, which is a lot less than new chain. I realize larger chain might be better, but I’m not likely going to spend the money at this point.

 

[Rmlow]

On Maxwell's website the is an excel spreadsheet that can be downloaded that details all chainwheels by windlass and chain size.

 

[grahamdouglass]

If you do go shopping you might remove your gypsy and maybe cut off a foot of chain. Take both with you when you go shopping for your gypsy. When I replaced my windless I took a foot of my chain to the chandlery to make sure the right gypsy was matched with my windless.

 

[Porgy]

Chain twist was previously mentioned and from the photo there is a 90° twist between the stopper and gypsy in a very short distance. With that twist, as the links are drawn toward the gypsy they will resist aligning with the pockets and possibly resulting in the chain jumping off the gypsy. Keep the chain links aligned from roller to windlass and see what happens. Hard to tell for certain but I don’t think the gypsy is necessarily the wrong size.

 

[Simi 60]

A new gypsy is about $600, which is a lot less than new chain. .

You might be getting touched up there.
New chainwheel for my Maxwell 3500 to suit 13mm was about $340 AUD

That's $240 USD.

 

[ktdtx]

Was this working well and then all of a sudden stopped working properly or has it been a problem all along?