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Old 04-01-2023, 12:04 AM   #1
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Anchor windlass issue - sparks from chain

Maxwell 3500HWC has ran like a champ for the 7 years we've been out here
And still is
But around Jan it started giving signs that something wasn't quite the same

Slightly different noise - or is it?
Seemed to lack power - at times
Seemed to change speed - at times
And sometimes I could swear I could hear a crackle with a whiff of ozone

Unbolted it, checked terminals, checked wiring, checked oil, all appeared fine
All terminals tight and liberal covering of liquid PVC from last time I serviced it.
Checked down below and found the breaker appearing to be partially tripped which is odd. I thought they were either off or on, but nothing else was obvious, all looked pristine.

Read manual and it mentioned brush replacement - but no instructions
Miles from anywhere so continue and observe.

Today I was pulling the anchor up while still dark

Wet chain and as it touched the chainwheel and as it went over the roller this time there were occasional sparks coming from the chain.
Not often but definitely happening.

Again, it all came up and now we are back in civilisation doing a reprov.

I'll unbolt it all ready to take the motor to an Auto Electrician on Monday, but hoping to go in sounding like I have an idea.

I am thinking if brushes are worn, so poor connection to the commutator
Could the power arc to the metal case of the motor >> metal case of gearbox >> shaft, chainwheel and into the chain?

Thoughts?
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Old 04-01-2023, 02:22 AM   #2
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That’s a tough one. If brushes were worn down to nothing it wouldn’t produce power right? The breaker is definitely trying to tell you something. It feels like a bad ground. Possible rusting under the liquid pvc?
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Old 04-01-2023, 04:54 AM   #3
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Brushes would be my first choice. They may just be sticking in the holder. Could also have a problem where the brushes touch the armature. Generally not a good idea to continue with a brushed motor when you're experiencing brush relaxed problem, especially arcing.

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Old 04-01-2023, 05:15 AM   #4
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Yep. brushes would be my first diagnosis from the symptoms,too. Have you smacked the motor housing with something heavy to see if the jarring frees the brushes and changes the motor operation?
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Old 04-01-2023, 05:16 AM   #5
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I am thinking if brushes are worn, so poor connection to the commutator
Could the power arc to the metal case of the motor >> metal case of gearbox >> shaft, chainwheel and into the chain?

Thoughts?
Should be measurable with a meter.
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Old 04-01-2023, 06:59 AM   #6
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Personally I think you have a short in the motor.
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Old 04-01-2023, 08:29 AM   #7
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Have you serviced per the Maxwell book. I ask because 4 years ago I had a Maxwell issue. Pulled the book out and noted several things including motor servicing I had been derelict in.

Then 2 years ago my 17 year old motor went bad. Replaced with new and rebuilt the old. We also carry a spare solenoid.
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Old 04-01-2023, 08:50 AM   #8
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I sounds like you have a bad DC negative connection, and some of the current is finding it's way back through the chainwheel and chain. If any of that current is flowing from chain to hull through the water, you could be subject to rapid electrolysis. So I would get it sorted right away.


If you have a clamp-on current meter, you could measure the current in the positive and negative cables right at the windless. They should be the same when the windless is operating. I suspect you will find there is less current in the negative wire because it's running back through the boat rather than 100% through the cable.
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Old 04-01-2023, 09:38 AM   #9
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I think most of your symptoms could be explained by bad brushes. The sparking could be due to the current being interrupted and jumping to the case and then to ground through the chain. And many breakers trip to a middle position between on and off.

I once had bad brushes on my windless replaced by an auto electric shop since the manufacturer was bought out and parts through them were not available. They filed down some similar brushes to fit and it worked fine.

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Old 04-01-2023, 10:22 AM   #10
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Brushes, not a big deal.

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Old 04-01-2023, 02:11 PM   #11
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Ok, sounds like I am on the right path.

The good thing about the HWC is that the motor and wiring is totally protected from the elements so I seriously doubt it's corrosion of any sort.

The bad thing about the HWC is that the motor and wiring are inaccessible for testing if wanting to put any load on it
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Old 04-01-2023, 02:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
.

I once had bad brushes on my windless replaced by an auto electric shop since the manufacturer was bought out and parts through them were not available. They filed down some similar brushes to fit and it worked fine.

David
Great and what I was hopeing.
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Old 04-01-2023, 02:17 PM   #13
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Simi
Have you serviced per the Maxwell book. I ask because 4 years ago I had a Maxwell issue. Pulled the book out and noted several things including motor servicing I had been derelict in.

Then 2 years ago my 17 year old motor went bad. Replaced with new and rebuilt the old. We also carry a spare solenoid.

Motor servicing is what I have missed
Everything else gets done
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Old 04-02-2023, 07:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I sounds like you have a bad DC negative connection, and some of the current is finding it's way back through the chainwheel and chain. If any of that current is flowing from chain to hull through the water, you could be subject to rapid electrolysis. So I would get it sorted right away.


If you have a clamp-on current meter, you could measure the current in the positive and negative cables right at the windless. They should be the same when the windless is operating. I suspect you will find there is less current in the negative wire because it's running back through the boat rather than 100% through the cable.



I agree with this. I don't think it's the brushes causing the arcing on the chain.
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Old 04-02-2023, 08:28 AM   #15
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I agree with this. I don't think it's the brushes causing the arcing on the chain.

No, but brushes and brush dust might be shorting to the motor frame. Just a guess. I agree that first step is to pull the motor, clean out all the carbon dust, inspect and presumably replace the brushes, and check for any shorts to the motor case. Also a current clamp meter on the positive and negative cables while operating the windless should show any imbalance in current, which would indicate it's finding another path.
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Old 04-02-2023, 10:18 AM   #16
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Motor servicing is what I have missed
Everything else gets done
Windlass motors often get overlooked. They indeed get gummed up as TT has stated but worse yet on the Maxwells they are buried in the anchor locker where it is damp from latent salt water. When ours bit the dust we were quite fortunately at the dock cleaning and marking the chain.

A new motor was available nearby (a miracle) and the old one sent in for rebuild. Yup, dust and corrosion did it in. Now we have a spare.
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Old 04-02-2023, 01:58 PM   #17
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Windlass motors often get overlooked. They indeed get gummed up as TT has stated but worse yet on the Maxwells they are buried in the anchor locker where it is damp from latent salt water. When ours bit the dust we were quite fortunately at the dock cleaning and marking the chain.

A new motor was available nearby (a miracle) and the old one sent in for rebuild. Yup, dust and corrosion did it in. Now we have a spare.

Except it's a HWC and is above deck
And the motor never sees any water due to the enclosed casing.
It also prohibits access to wiring unless unbolted and flipped on its side
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Old 04-02-2023, 06:07 PM   #18
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Windlass is off, motor is out and I have found the culprit.
No "pro" needed yet.
Definite signs of arcing and a broken bit of metal wire that's been getting thrown around inside.

Brushes still look to have a tonne of life left in them but as seen in pic, wire has been arking
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IMG_20230403_084154.jpg   IMG_20230403_084202.jpg  
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Old 04-02-2023, 06:10 PM   #19
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More pics of stray metal

One of the terminals that was covered in red PVC liquid also has signs of bad connection.
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IMG_20230403_084404.jpg   IMG_20230403_084708.jpg   IMG_20230403_090234.jpg  
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Old 04-02-2023, 07:40 PM   #20
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Got a bit more copper wire out, looks like broken windings.
Thinking as it's still working I'll clean it up and reassemble.
Now the dust and loose bits are out hopefully the shorting will be stopped.

Over $1000 for a new motor in Oz
And wouldn't be able to get it rewound for a week or two at least.
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