Anchor type advice needed

[ksanders]

NW we anchored 99% of the time for 8 years while full time cruising. Crushed coral, loose mud, heavy weed, packed sand, dirt on top of ledge. You name it. Was using a Rocna and very rarely a danforth when conditions required. Often in fresh breeze or with occasional squalls. Yes, I’ve changed my practice in response to what other more experienced cruisers explained to me and then from the result of my own experience. It’s not the weight of the anchor but rather the resistance of the substrate above it that translates to holding power. If you disturb the substrate above the anchor it will remain disturbed and generate less resistance from that point forward. Gentle pull on the anchor will allow it to continue to dig in over time further without much disturbance of the overlying substrate. We dived or looked at our anchor daily. Over several days (and not with a few minutes of backing down) it would bury completely. Using the new technique we never moved an inch. Big downfall of roll bar nextgens is the possibility of dislodged with significant shifts in current or wind. When fully buried had occasions the shank didn’t ****, the anchor stayed fully buried and the boat stayed put in sustained 20 to 30. Anchor weight is helpful in getting the anchor buried. Holding power is increased by increased fluke area as well. But the key issue is how much substrate is above the anchor and is it sufficiently compacted to offer good resistance.
On this I think we’ll agree to disagree.

I agree with your go slow technique. Maybe not as belated as you but the idea is the same.

Just take it easy and slow setting the anchor. Go too fast and it will just skip or lightly bury. Go slow and it will stick and stay stuck.

I am also a HUGE believer in lots of scope. You may need to shorten scope in a crowded anchorage but if you set your anchor at 7:1 you'll get a better set and then you can shorten if need be.

BTW I love my 33kg SARCA EXCEL but unfortunately I have to move to a anchor with a shorter shank for my new Bow Pulput Removal project, so I went with a Mantuc BR2 bow roller and a M2-85 pound anchor for my 47' boat.

 

[Southern Boater]

Just out of interest,what does an Excel around 77lbs cost over there? I`d expect freight from Australia would add significant cost,but sometimes pricing here is surprisingly high compared to exported Oz made products sold overseas. I paid $700 AUD for a No.5 Excel(22kg = 48lbs) direct from Sarca, incl freight Melbourne to Sydney(800km by road).

I just bought a No.7 Excel, 36kg = 80lb at retail $AUD1290.
It seems most boats locally are converting to the Excel option, both commercial and recreational.

 

[BruceK]

I just bought a No.7 Excel, 36kg = 80lb at retail $AUD1290.
It seems most boats locally are converting to the Excel option, both commercial and recreational.

Congratulations, good choice, hope it fits and sits nicely. Mine came direct from Sarca in Melbourne, Rex Francis runs Sarca. He`s helpful, I met him at Boat Shows(remember those?) after some contact when TF and SARCA/Rex "separated".
My no.5 S/Sarca didn`t fit the "new to us" boat, an Excel was an easy decision. Let us know how it sets when you try it. How did fitting the bow shackle go?
Hoping to be back on the water mid October, fingers crossed.

 

[Andy G]

How did fitting the bow shackle go?

Warning: thread hijack (temporary)

I also have an issue with bow shackle's for our Rocna 25KG anchor. The old Lofran Tigres (new one ordered) has been slipping, despite our best efforts, and no longer can pull the chain up over the bow roller. The old setup just used a D shackle. To try to fix this issue we moved to a swivel unit, however the anchor will not seat properly to allow the anchor to move up and over the bow roller. Does the Rocna need a specific set up?

Any suggestions much appreciated.

 

[Mako]

I had a Bruce 30kg but found it was difficult to set and dragged anchor in mud in Reed Harbor in storm with 70 to 80 mph gusts a number of years ago.

I wonder if it would help the performance of a Bruce if you sharpened the leading edges.

I had a Danforth copy which had a difficult time penetrating the hard pan sand/limestone bed in the Persian Gulf. Grinding down the tip and leading edge helped wonders. But I never tried this on a Bruce.

 

[Southern Boater]

I wonder if it would help the performance of a Bruce if you sharpened the leading edges.

I had a Danforth copy which had a difficult time penetrating the hard pan sand/limestone bed in the Persian Gulf. Grinding down the tip and leading edge helped wonders. But I never tried this on a Bruce.

Have a look at the YouTube channel “SV Panope”, Steve does try different methods to experiment with improving the holding power of some anchors.

 

[Southern Boater]

Congratulations, good choice, hope it fits and sits nicely. Mine came direct from Sarca in Melbourne, Rex Francis runs Sarca. He`s helpful, I met him at Boat Shows(remember those?) after some contact when TF and SARCA/Rex "separated".
My no.5 S/Sarca didn`t fit the "new to us" boat, an Excel was an easy decision. Let us know how it sets when you try it. How did fitting the bow shackle go?
Hoping to be back on the water mid October, fingers crossed.

The anchor sits perfectly on the bowsprit, with just enough shank length to accomodate the bow shackle before it engages the gypsy.
I have been warned an issue to consider with this anchor choice is they tend to set so well, retrieving them is sometimes a problem!
I’m pleased for Rex’s company having this internationally recognised success for his local Oz designed product.

Do you know if the bolt end of the bow shackle is supposed to face the winch or the anchor itself, or does it not matter, just as long as a bow shackle is used?

I hope you Greater Sydney (and Melbourne) folks are soon able to get back to your boating and other recreational activities, it’s been a long slog over this winter!

 

[Southern Boater]

How did fitting the bow shackle go?

Warning: thread hijack (temporary)

I also have an issue with bow shackle's for our Rocna 25KG anchor. The old Lofran Tigres (new one ordered) has been slipping, despite our best efforts, and no longer can pull the chain up over the bow roller. The old setup just used a D shackle. To try to fix this issue we moved to a swivel unit, however the anchor will not seat properly to allow the anchor to move up and over the bow roller. Does the Rocna need a specific set up?

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sarca definitely recommend a bow over a D shackle for best retrieval to the bowsprit, I’m not sure about Rocna.
A local guy who worked at Muir’s (winches) recently recommended to me to change the SS rollers in the bow fittings to hard plastic/nylon to allow easier passage/less resistance for the chain. It appears the SS rollers appear to bind on their axel’s.

 

[Art]

Have a look at the YouTube channel “SV Panope”, Steve does try different methods to experiment with improving the holding power of some anchors.

During his intense anchor testing sequence's I followed closely on Steve's video and reports. Best and most conclusive anchor-performance tests I've ever seen... or, heard of.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I wonder if it would help the performance of a Bruce if you sharpened the leading edges.

I had a Danforth copy which had a difficult time penetrating the hard pan sand/limestone bed in the Persian Gulf. Grinding down the tip and leading edge helped wonders. But I never tried this on a Bruce.

I’m sure it would.
However most Claws (the Bruce excepted) are made of material that is on the weak side. But a lot of Claws have very blunt or fat leading edges that will impede penetration of the sea bed.
I have a 33# Lewmar and have removed more than a little from the fluke tips to sharpen them up.
Unfortunately I never have tried that anchor. So many other anchors that are 10 - 15lbs lighter that promise more holding power.

However holding power now is just one of many anchor performance features that are important. The most important is probably setting ability. And setting is clearly a strong point for Claws so if a small and inexpensive modification can make fairly large improvements to an old and popular anchor it can’t help but be a good thing. I think the blunt flukes are a manufacturing semi-necessity.
If you grind on your flukes coat fairly often w cold galvanizing spray paint.

 

[BruceK]

...Do you know if the bolt end of the bow shackle is supposed to face the winch or the anchor itself, or does it not matter, just as long as a bow shackle is used?

An instruction sheet with photos came with the Excel. It says "Shackles on all Excel anchors must be fitted with a bow shaped shackle". Fit the bow shackle through the anchor shank hole, attach the chain on the pin. If the shackle won`t fit through the anchor hole, attach the shackle to the anchor via the "jaws" and pin, chain sitting in the"U" of the shackle.
I eventually got the shackle on the shank, the "preferred" method, so the pin/bolt/jaws face the winch.There is no explanation why a bow shackle is essential, or why one way to fit is preferred.
A pic shows the use of 2 shackles for the "less preferred" attachment. It`s quite possible to only use one by fitting the chain to the "bow" before pinning the jaw end to the anchor, so I wonder why the extra shackle.
I couldn`t find anything on the Why Anchor Right Australia is set apart from the rest - Anchor Right Australia site, but an email to Rex should get you a copy of the fitting sheet.

 

[Peter B]

I imagine that fixing the bow part of the shackle to the hole in the end of the shank as the preferred method is purely so it has the maximum range of friction free movement in all directions to lessen the side forces on the shackle shape as the boat is swung around in changing currents and wind directions.

Can't think of any other reason, and this would be supported by them recommending a second shackle in the line if you have to fix the shackle bolt through the end of the shank, for the same reason. That is, minimising twisting forces on the main shackle..?

As the shackle hole is fairly generous, one would tend to the conclusion if anyone can't get the bow part through the shank hole, they are actually using an over-sized shackle.

 

[Southern Boater]

An instruction sheet with photos came with the Excel. It says "Shackles on all Excel anchors must be fitted with a bow shaped shackle". Fit the bow shackle through the anchor shank hole, attach the chain on the pin. If the shackle won`t fit through the anchor hole, attach the shackle to the anchor via the "jaws" and pin, chain sitting in the"U" of the shackle.
I eventually got the shackle on the shank, the "preferred" method, so the pin/bolt/jaws face the winch.There is no explanation why a bow shackle is essential, or why one way to fit is preferred.
A pic shows the use of 2 shackles for the "less preferred" attachment. It`s quite possible to only use one by fitting the chain to the "bow" before pinning the jaw end to the anchor, so I wonder why the extra shackle.
I couldn`t find anything on the Why Anchor Right Australia is set apart from the rest - Anchor Right Australia site, but an email to Rex should get you a copy of the fitting sheet.

Thanks Bruce, appreciate the explanation and link

 

[Southern Boater]

I imagine that fixing the bow part of the shackle to the hole in the end of the shank as the preferred method is purely so it has the maximum range of friction free movement in all directions to lessen the side forces on the shackle shape as the boat is swung around in changing currents and wind directions.

Can't think of any other reason, and this would be supported by them recommending a second shackle in the line if you have to fix the shackle bolt through the end of the shank, for the same reason. That is, minimising twisting forces on the main shackle..?

As the shackle hole is fairly generous, one would tend to the conclusion if anyone can't get the bow part through the shank hole, they are actually using an over-sized shackle.

Thanks for the input Peter.
I haven’t even launched the new anchor yet, I’ll do some experimenting to see how it best retrieves to the bowsprit,

 

[jclays]

I wonder if it would help the performance of a Bruce if you sharpened the leading edges.

I had a Danforth copy which had a difficult time penetrating the hard pan sand/limestone bed in the Persian Gulf. Grinding down the tip and leading edge helped wonders. But I never tried this on a Bruce.

I too have thought of sharpening the 3 leading edges of the Bruce.

 

[backinblue]

For those that may still consider the Ultra, I just came across this review. I agree it may be the most expensive, but also one of the best you can buy. Hope this link works!

https://boattest.com/Ultra-Anchor?u...NJQ&utm_content=165809906&utm_source=hs_email

 

[Art]

For those that may still consider the Ultra, I just came across this review. I agree it may be the most expensive, but also one of the best you can buy. Hope this link works!

https://boattest.com/Ultra-Anchor?u...NJQ&utm_content=165809906&utm_source=hs_email

Nice anchor!

I've been a Danforth design anchor appreciator for 60+ years. Currently have five [5] of various size/weight and manufacturer labels aboard. One of my favorite for our tall/broad superstructure, 21K lb. [when loaded] 34' Tollycraft is the aluminum Fortress FX 23. Lightweight/strong, have it positioned in available 45 degree angle for fast/deep setting into mud areas [such as SF Delta bottom we anchor in]. Don't have fancy anchoring mechanical equipment [do have drum type windless on bow] and often have both front and rear anchors deployed. Due to reasons... Fortress FX 23 is usually our rear anchor. After securing the bow we take it out in our tow behind runabout for droping into water for setting. It's 15 lb light weight for handling ease and large flukes [attached for 45 degrees off its shank] for quick set is much appreciated! I have no affiliation with Fortress Anchors - just appreciate and use their products.

https://fortressanchors.com/selection-guide/fortress/

https://fortressanchors.com/shop/

 

[backinblue]

I've lived many years with a Danforth-type anchor and have no complaints. When set well and in the right conditions, they hold as good as anything. My newest boat (3 years ago) came with a danforth that looked small to me and did drag a couple times. I made the leap and bought the Ultra and swivel and never been happier. Admitidedly, a smaller size and less $$$ than many here would need. However, it does work as advertized, including the swivel.

 

[AlanT]

All sounds very (very) lightweight to me

+1

My heavy 72' has an 85lb Fordfjord (Navy anchor) and 400- 3/8th chain. IMO the type of anchor becomes less relevant as the weight increases, making penetration and holding more certain. Which is why, for larger boats I don't pay too much attention to the reviews which tend to focus on the ability of a light anchor to dig in and hold.
~A

 

[Slowmo]

I used a Danforth type for years. It worked reliably but a reset could be a problem in eel grass. Our current boat has a genuine Bruce. Again it struggles in the grass sometimes so I've been in the market for an alternative. There are many anchor tests you can review, of course the manufacturer tests always find theirs to be best! The SV Panope testing is the most extensive and is done in the PNW so is relevant for us. The Sarca was excellent but seems hard to find. Interestingly Rocna Vulcan was excellent while the regular Rocna was mediocre. I find anchors like car brands, everyone has a favorite. In the end I think how you use it probably matters the most. I suspect that the best of the tested anchors are more tolerant of sloppy practices but most designs are capable if used properly.

Someone above commented about coming up gently on the anchor. I've found this to be critical, maybe because so much of my experience was with the Danforth. I've seen people drag backwards at 3kn halfway across a harbor when if they gave the anchor a chance they would have set the first time where they started.

 

[Spinner]

I had an Ultra on my prior boat. When I bought the current boat, I didn’t want to shell out the 3? 4? K for the size needed. Instead, I bought a Spade, which is not pretty but appears to be the same. I’ve been as satisfied with the Spade as I was with the Ultra.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I've lived many years with a Danforth-type anchor and have no complaints. When set well and in the right conditions, they hold as good as anything. My newest boat (3 years ago) came with a danforth that looked small to me and did drag a couple times. I made the leap and bought the Ultra and swivel and never been happier. Admitidedly, a smaller size and less $$$ than many here would need. However, it does work as advertized, including the swivel.

Yes but at what cost?
You IMO could have bought an anchor for 1/3 the cost that will do the same job.

 

[backinblue]

Slomo, I agree and witness the same thing all the time. A week or 2 ago, someone dropped anchor rather close to us, but then I was happy to see them quickly drag it backwards 100 yds or so and they were no longer close. I agree that you need to set your anchor slowly, the problem I've had, especially with a danforth, is if it's windy and the anchor pulls out due to a wind shift or the boat "sailing" at anchor, it doesn't have the option to re-set slowly and gently, it could be getting dragged and skipping across the bottom. If this happens when sleeping or not paying attentuion, you may find yourself in a new location than where you started. I also agree with Alan, that ships with big heavy navy anchors don't need to worry so much about anchor design.

 

[Simi 60]

Yes but at what cost?
You IMO could have bought an anchor for 1/3 the cost that will do the same job.

Or even 1/4
Here in Australia an ultra for ours is $10,000
Manson supreme is $2500
No contest