Anchor Swivel options for 5/16 Chain

[psneeld]

And why does it do that????

Not too often with my current windlass, many times with the deceased one.

I am just guessing speed of pull, the geometry of all components and some lack of vertical drop....

But in reality, I have studied it carefully read many ideas, went ahead and grooved my roller, tried all but deep water untwisting but carefully did it by hand at the dock.....

So I don't really know and now after all the effort don't care.

I have written my theory on swivels in my use and now life is fine. Sure I would love to figure my issue out...but other things in life have higher priorities and I see the swivel as 0.001 percent threat. I see many more greater threats to my anchoring safety than the swivel.

If I lived at anchor without many options for minimal anchoring stress, I might feel differently.

 

[HiDHo]

I have never used a swivel on CQR, Danforth, Bruce and my present Rocna Vulcan anchor. I use only high quality commercial duty ( non-china) shackles with the pin secured with stainless steel wire.
Any twists in the chain comes out once the anchor is aweigh as others have mentioned.

 

[DDW]

Or use a swivel...... Not proven to be a weak link, and reach forward give a shove and be done with it. Why buy an anchor I dont trust any more than the one I have? Prove there are better ones? Ones that will swivel correctly?

I have no idea how my chain twists, other than the occasional jump as it comes over the chain wheel..not going to worry about it cause a swivel is a cheap, reliable, easy solution.

A Spade anchor and many of the copies and similar designs will right itself as it comes over the anchor roller, 100% of the time. The bent link mimics this action for non-righting anchors. The action is completely automatic, no need to go forward and kick it or position it. A swivel on the other hand, will not guarantee that the anchor rights itself, nor will it guarantee no twists in the chain (as all of them suffer considerable friction). Do whatever you like, but be aware that other solutions exist.

Chains twist for only three reasons: 1) the boat spins at anchor, 2) the anchor roller is poorly designed, or 3) the chain drags across the bottom sideways. 1 is a fairly rare case, and usually will result in only one or two turns, and will unwind itself with a proper bow roller. 2 is more common, some rollers demonstrably roll the chain as the anchor is dropped or retrieved. Get a new roller. 3 is common, but puts a equal number of right and and left hand twists for net zero. If the anchor roller had a proper chain groove, these will resolve themselves when retrieved.

Perhaps true for those with all-chain rode. Not so much, in our mixed-rode case.

-Chris

Yes, a mixed rode can twist the chain a lot, especially if used with 3 strand. Still, on my sailboat with a mixed rode, I've never had any problem with twists. The nylon is 8 plait (which does not torque) and the self righting anchor always lands in the bow roller right side up without any attention at all.

 

[psneeld]

I disagree that only the anchor determines direction at roller.

I disagree that those are the only 3 reasons, chain jump is one more explanation at least....maybe more that others can post.

I cant fully explain it, but I have a simple solution with no negatives that I see.....that are absolute.

Swivels are sold because more people than me see there "might" be reasons for them that others cant solve or care to deal with.

Again...... if you dont need or wish to use one great, but one shouldn't fear using one either.

 

[Nomad Willy]

http://groundtackle.comIf you’re having trouble w anchor orientation see Ground Taclke Marine and find the “flip link”.

It’s a doglegged looking steel plate link the will always orient your anchor correctly.
Bullet proof and unquestionably strong.
Inexpensive too.

 

[rslifkin]

http://groundtackle.comIf you’re having trouble w anchor orientation see Ground Taclke Marine and find the “flip link”.

It’s a doglegged looking steel plate link the will always orient your anchor correctly.
Bullet proof and unquestionably strong.
Inexpensive too.

Looks like a good solution, but even the small size will add about a foot of length including shackles. I don't quite have that much room between the end of the shank and the windlass gypsy on my setup.

 

[psneeld]

Plus wait till the "weak link" theorists see this multi shackle debacle...

 

[ranger58sb]

I don't see where Jeff (OP) has mentioned why a swivel was recommended to him...

Yes, a mixed rode can twist the chain a lot, especially if used with 3 strand. Still, on my sailboat with a mixed rode, I've never had any problem with twists. The nylon is 8 plait (which does not torque) and the self righting anchor always lands in the bow roller right side up without any attention at all.

We had 8-plait, too. But the only two things I didn't care for about our anchor were that it wasn't self-righting and it wasn't self-launching.

The swivel was just a way to make righting easier. And I always had to go forward to unlock the chain stopper anyway... so that wasn't a huge deal.

Looks like a good solution, but even the small size will add about a foot of length including shackles. I don't quite have that much room between the end of the shank and the windlass gypsy on my setup.

I don't remember ever seeing the flip links before I found a decent swivel, but I certainly would have considered one. That would have been circa 2005-ish or shortly thereafter. Even afterwards, once discovered, I looked at them... but by then I'd upsized the anchor enough so there wasn't sufficient room between anchor shank and windlass. The swivel fit, but the flip links were too long at that point.

-Chris

 

[motion30]

I just installed a mantis swivel on my setup it seems heavy duty and well made.

 

[motion30]

It is very rare that a chain actually twists while at anchor - you need multiple clocking fronts or many days of tidal reversals to wind the chain. Often, it will twist one way and then they other as the chain rolls across the bottom, but the net twists will be zero.

If you are having trouble with your anchor coming into the roller upside down, you could buy an anchor that is self-righting (like the Spade), or use a self-righting link such as those by Osculati or many other vendors these days (or make one yourself). These will right your anchor automatically, and do not have the weak link of a swivel.

My chain comes up twisted every time I retrieve the anchor so much so that it wants to skip on the Windless and jam. I am going to try to manage swivel and see if it makes any difference

 

[rgano]

Mantus again. Note the engineering involved in making the cross section of the pin (in the second piece from the left) oblong to increase strength. No jaws in this thing to get yanked around at some side angle.

 

[foreverunderway]

Hello,

I upgraded our anchor to a 55lb Rocna and it was recommended that I consider an anchor swivel.

Can anyone suggest a particular vendor/model that would be one to consider?

Thanks in advance.

Jeff
Mainship 40

Before you spend any money on the weak link in your anchor tackle (a swivel) please go to https://marinehowto.com/ and read what he has to say.

 

[dennismenace111]

Rather than a swivel at the chain to anchor attach point, I would suggest a short length, 2 ft or so of heavier chain then the swivel to the lchain!

Thus eliminates much of the side loads that cause swivel failure!

 

[TexasBryan]

+1 for the Mantus.

 

[kwestby]

Ultra Flip is the Best

Very few Anchor swivels are strong enough to make me happy, however there is one & it is what I personally use.


Anchor Swivel -- best way to go is "ULTRA Flip Swivel".

it is the only one I trust !

Your application for 5/16 chain & anchor size of 55 Lbs. - the # 8 will work well with 9,140 lbs..

If you want a extra HD unit then # 10 - break strength is 14,580 lbs.

I have an extra one in each size & happy to give you a good deal on one or both of them.


BTW - they make the anchor swivel around so it always comes up correctly on the bow roller.


Best Swivel I have ever used in 50 years of boating all around the world.

I have used no swivel and many swivel options over 35 years of boating and in my opinion the ultra works perfectly and is able to eliminate my fears of side loading failure. The anchor pops into the roller every time perfectly. I have installed on my trawler and 30 Pursuit and both require 0 management on deck which is great single handling your boat in tight anchorages. It does not wash down your ground tackle of mud and kelp, which for what they charge for their beautiful Turkish stainless you would think it should ?

 

[Roger Long]

I just installed a mantis swivel on my setup it seems heavy duty and well made.

Agree but be sure you see my post farther up the thread about securing the cone. It unscrews way too easily to depend on just the seizing wire.

 

[DennisB1]

I am using an Ultra swivel with a Rocna Vulcan anchor 55kg. It was very wild lifting without, coming up backward and too heavy to manhandle to guide into the pulpit. The swivel always turns so it feeds into the bow pulpit. I added a plastic block to the anchor slot to make the swivel function properly when mounting the Ultra swivel. It is rated well beyond the G43 chain that I am using. Yes it is expensive but I could not find another as the distant between the winch and the anchor stock did not allow a chain between the swivel and anchor.

 

[Bacchus]

Mantis for me.
Just wondering... has anyone used a Mantus and personally had a problem?
If the seizing is good enough for my prop nut I'm OK with it for my anchor swivel. Just my opinion of course others welcome to weigh in?

 

[motion30]

Mantis for me.
Just wondering... has anyone used a Mantus and personally had a problem?
If the seizing is good enough for my prop nut I'm OK with it for my anchor swivel. Just my opinion of course others welcome to weigh in?

It's a little different than the prop nut that has lots of preload. I did Tighten the housing with a wrench but you can only go so far until the holes no longer aline. All the Mantis products I have used have been excellently engineer. I'm hoping this swivel is the same.

 

[Bacchus]

It's a little different than the prop nut that has lots of preload. I did Tighten the housing with a wrench but you can only go so far until the holes no longer aline. All the Mantis products I have used have been excellently engineer. I'm hoping this swivel is the same.

I think when I did my swivel I installed 2 separate sizing wires so if one fails there is a backup. I also wrapped around it w tape just so there is no ends to collect t weeds. The tape also acts as a telltale... if it looks ragged che I the seizing and rewrap w tape.
I sleep well at night.

 

[BrianSmith]

One of the sailing / boating magazines did a review of swivels some years ago and concluded that most of them have a fatal flaw - you can't inspect the inside, to know if it's starting to corrode. The only one they liked was the Ultimate. We've had one for 4 years, and have used it to anchor all over the Bahamas and Eastern Caribbean. No problems, ever!

 

[psneeld]

A regular old, double eye galvanized swivel couldn't hide much.

If from a good manufacturer, and rated....without a factory flaw ( which chain could have too) what could be the problem?

If after a few years rust or abnormalities appear...they are cheap enough to replace.

With as many complaints about shackles... why should I worry about something with about the same complexity as a shackle that could also be a point of failure.....but everyone uses them without question.

 

[BruceK]

A regular old, double eye galvanized swivel couldn't hide much.

If from a good manufacturer, and rated....without a factory flaw ( which chain could have too) what could be the problem?

If after a few years rust or abnormalities appear...they are cheap enough to replace.

With as many complaints about shackles... why should I worry about something with about the same complexity as a shackle that could also be a point of failure.....but everyone uses them without question.

That`s what I use. I bought a ss one with rating,could not bring myself to fit it. Now a paperweight it functions well and safely, no papers ever move.

 

[Salish Nomad]

Mantis for me.
Just wondering... has anyone used a Mantus and personally had a problem?
If the seizing is good enough for my prop nut I'm OK with it for my anchor swivel. Just my opinion of course others welcome to weigh in?

Install a heavy duty zip the in the first chain link directly above the cone. This will in the event of safety wire failure prevent the cone from unthreading past the cross pin.

 

[backinblue]

Very few Anchor swivels are strong enough to make me happy, however there is one & it is what I personally use.


Anchor Swivel -- best way to go is "ULTRA Flip Swivel".

it is the only one I trust !

Your application for 5/16 chain & anchor size of 55 Lbs. - the # 8 will work well with 9,140 lbs..

If you want a extra HD unit then # 10 - break strength is 14,580 lbs.

I have an extra one in each size & happy to give you a good deal on one or both of them.


BTW - they make the anchor swivel around so it always comes up correctly on the bow roller.


Best Swivel I have ever used in 50 years of boating all around the world.

Last year I upgraded to an Ultra anchor and also bought their flip swivel. It is rated at higher strength than the rest of my tackle and I had read some good reviews of it. It's expensive but looks to be really well engineered and made. Anchor comes up perfect every time. It only comes in stainless, so if you want/need galvanized, you would have to look elsewhere. You don't want to mix stainless and galvanized components (anchor, shackles, chain, etc).

 

[NCheaven]

Chuck Hawley comments on swivels in his Boaters University Anchoring seminar. Worth watching....

 

[Simi 60]

Amazed that we and most full time cruisers can manage to anchor 365 days of the year without a swivel and wouldn't use one if they gave them away, yet those that don't actually seem to do much anchoring seem to think they are needed.
Why is this???

 

[backinblue]

Why assume that those with a swivel do not anchor much? Sounds a little condescending. Maybe re-read the post from Alphamike? We anchor every chance we get which is why I spent a lot of money on a new anchor and rode when we purchased our newest boat last year. I can agree that a swivel is not a mandatory piece of equipment but like many things, it can make things easier and more enjoyable. I was reluctant to add one at first but have since become a fan. If you purchase the right one, the risk of failure is negligible. There are numerous pieces of gear that you could go boating without, but that doesn't mean they are not useful.

 

[Simi 60]

Why assume that those with a swivel do not anchor much? .
Sounds a little condescending

So just to clarify, how many days a year do you anchor???

. Maybe re-read the post from Alphamike?

This one?

Very few Anchor swivels are strong enough to make me happy,

Sure he's found one that he feels is better than others but again, without knowing how many days a year and in what conditions it means little.
And, can you prove to me that an expensive swivel is actually better than a rated shackle?
Why would I buy one when 99% of the time my anchor comes up without issue and...when there is an issue it is sorted in minutes?

 

[catalinajack]

Lucky?

Amazed that we and most full time cruisers can manage to anchor 365 days of the year without a swivel and wouldn't use one if they gave them away, yet those that don't actually seem to do much anchoring seem to think they are needed.
Why is this???