Nomad Willy
Guru
Craig wrote;
"what I'm mainly getting at is if a half a boat length of chain induces droop or centenary like a kellet, would it not be reasonable to assume an all chain rode would do the same. Right or wrong I look at the chain in my rode as a shock absorber, if all chain was practical on my boat I'd do it. If for nothing else the shock absorbing qualities alone."
Indeed but I think it's more useful for the catenary. And w very light loads on the rode (as when setting the anchor) the cat gain w a little chain is probably very significant. So I think chain is important for setting performance.
As a shock absorber the advantage of chain is obvious. But the advantage of nylon line as a shock absorber is super obvious if you take a 30 or 40' line, tie it off somewhere and pull on it's full length. It's like a big bungi. Hard to believe unless you've done it. The only rode w/o good shock absorbing ability is cable.
Craig wrote;
"I wonder if much of this debate boils down to a big boat/small boat sorta thing? All chain is not very practical on boats 30' and under, it starts coming into its own after 32 feet in my mind. Below that the boats can really feel the weight difference on the bow. Above say 40' the line diameters increase to the point that I really wouldn't wish to mess with rope of the diameter required for the job personally."
Very true Craig but to what degree. It is dependent on numerous things. I agree objectivity is one to be sure as I certainly do focus on my own anchoring problems and situation. I try to stay out of the box though.
But I suspect that the percentage of the weight of rode and anchor compared to the disp of a boat would be a constant. An all chain rode should be the same percentage of the total weight of a boat irregardless of the boat's total weight for equal anchoring performance. This is new ground. We've never discussed this before. Perhaps this relates to what Peter and I have said about the ground tackle of large ships.
But getting back to your point Craig that all chain on 30-32' boats or smaller is impractical. Not "impractical" I think just not necessary. You can put a windlass on any small boat w all chain and it should work just as well if it's the same percentage of vessel weight as larger boats.
There are lots of advantages to being on the bow w the anchor line in your hand. You can see where the line goes in the water, if there's weed attached to it or if your'e bringing up a big branch from the river bottom. Your'e much more aware of the whole anchoring event. But it's much too inconvenient w 3/8ths chain and a 40lb anchor. So I think it's the ability to anchor by hand that separates the two worlds of anchoring by winch and by hand.
Bruce K wrote;
" You helped everyone with an open mind, to understand and learn, as well as each other."
Yes and unfortunately no. I've played down the importance of chain and it's clear benefits to the anchor rode. Someone could buy into this too much, use an undersized line w no chain and an anchor w poor short scope performance and come to grief on the beach or worse. Standard lengths of chain recommended in Chapman's and many other places are useful, important or very important depending on many variables. Chain is not something to dispense with but to use to our advantage. Now that we have windlass's that handle chain AND line on the same rode over 50% chain on a rode is just a waste. The only reason for it is if you don't trust your line spliced into the last link of your chain.
Thank you very much for the compliment. Very appreciated.
"what I'm mainly getting at is if a half a boat length of chain induces droop or centenary like a kellet, would it not be reasonable to assume an all chain rode would do the same. Right or wrong I look at the chain in my rode as a shock absorber, if all chain was practical on my boat I'd do it. If for nothing else the shock absorbing qualities alone."
Indeed but I think it's more useful for the catenary. And w very light loads on the rode (as when setting the anchor) the cat gain w a little chain is probably very significant. So I think chain is important for setting performance.
As a shock absorber the advantage of chain is obvious. But the advantage of nylon line as a shock absorber is super obvious if you take a 30 or 40' line, tie it off somewhere and pull on it's full length. It's like a big bungi. Hard to believe unless you've done it. The only rode w/o good shock absorbing ability is cable.
Craig wrote;
"I wonder if much of this debate boils down to a big boat/small boat sorta thing? All chain is not very practical on boats 30' and under, it starts coming into its own after 32 feet in my mind. Below that the boats can really feel the weight difference on the bow. Above say 40' the line diameters increase to the point that I really wouldn't wish to mess with rope of the diameter required for the job personally."
Very true Craig but to what degree. It is dependent on numerous things. I agree objectivity is one to be sure as I certainly do focus on my own anchoring problems and situation. I try to stay out of the box though.
But I suspect that the percentage of the weight of rode and anchor compared to the disp of a boat would be a constant. An all chain rode should be the same percentage of the total weight of a boat irregardless of the boat's total weight for equal anchoring performance. This is new ground. We've never discussed this before. Perhaps this relates to what Peter and I have said about the ground tackle of large ships.
But getting back to your point Craig that all chain on 30-32' boats or smaller is impractical. Not "impractical" I think just not necessary. You can put a windlass on any small boat w all chain and it should work just as well if it's the same percentage of vessel weight as larger boats.
There are lots of advantages to being on the bow w the anchor line in your hand. You can see where the line goes in the water, if there's weed attached to it or if your'e bringing up a big branch from the river bottom. Your'e much more aware of the whole anchoring event. But it's much too inconvenient w 3/8ths chain and a 40lb anchor. So I think it's the ability to anchor by hand that separates the two worlds of anchoring by winch and by hand.
Bruce K wrote;
" You helped everyone with an open mind, to understand and learn, as well as each other."
Yes and unfortunately no. I've played down the importance of chain and it's clear benefits to the anchor rode. Someone could buy into this too much, use an undersized line w no chain and an anchor w poor short scope performance and come to grief on the beach or worse. Standard lengths of chain recommended in Chapman's and many other places are useful, important or very important depending on many variables. Chain is not something to dispense with but to use to our advantage. Now that we have windlass's that handle chain AND line on the same rode over 50% chain on a rode is just a waste. The only reason for it is if you don't trust your line spliced into the last link of your chain.
Thank you very much for the compliment. Very appreciated.
Last edited:
