Anchor chain recomendations / experiences

[Third-Reef]

I am going to purchase 300' of 5/16 BBB hot dip chain for my Nova trawler. My first thought is to get the West Marine hot dip chain that they gauranteed for 2? years not to rust? Does anyone know if this is different from the Acco that say 1st chain supply has? Has anyone used it and have an experience with it. 1st has about the same price that i can get through WM using my brokers port supply acct. but i would need to deal with shipping it to the boat.

Thanks in advance for any advice

 

[rwidman]

West Marine will match most vendor's prices so you may be able to walk into a West marine store with a printout of a vendor's price and walk out with your chain at the Internet price (plus local tax).

Their "catch" is, it must be the same brand so if they have "West Marine" brand chain, they may not honor your price. It doesn't cost anything to try though.

 

[psneeld]

check locally or the nearest fishing town...just bought 200 feet of acco 5/16 chain for $2.20 a foot in Cape May, NJ...that was almost 1/2 of everyone else's price and no shipping.

marine stores are generally not the place to get anything that may also be on a commercial boat.

 

[Third-Reef]

I have looked around. While there is a good bit of comercial fishing in Santa Barbara Ca there is not alot of commercial supply type companies. Just movie stars and high priced food. Even if i look up in the PNW Portland area the best price is still 1st chain. West Marine is going to match the price at 3.31/' and i am working on getting it delivered to the slip also. This california weather is expensive, somebody needs to pay for it.

 

[Third-Reef]

Put my 300' of new 5/16 BBB chain on tonight. Dam that 14" of chain i can see between the anchor swivel and the windlass looks good up on the bow! Now i just need a small hatch so i can push the chain castle over if i put out all 300 and try to bring it all back in at once.

 

[Marin]

The first thing you need to do is get rid of that swivel. You don't need it and it's a potential weak link in your anchoring setup, particularly if you installed the swivel backwards, which most people seem to do for whatever reason.

And if you absolutely insist on using a swivel, at least get the only one wrth using (in my opinion), which is the WASI Power Ball.

We got rid of our swivel over a decade ago and we've never wished we had it back. And that way you'll see more of your nice new chain.

 

[Third-Reef]

Ah yes, the to swivel or not to swivel debate. I am still on the fence on this one. My swivel does help getting the anchor on board as i have a sprit with a slot in it where the anchor needs to be aligned just right or it is not comming up that last bit. I let it hang, reach down twist it and go the last bit. As for installation. i will post a picture. I needed dual shackels at the anchor as my anchor has a very thick shank, and also to eleminate the side loading that the swivels can get if attached directly to the anchor. my resarch indicated that the side loading is the usual cause of swivel breakage. It is criminal what they try to sell as a "normal" swivel. I believe that mine is rated for more load than my chain (it better be or it is coming off for sure). Pictures later, to be continued.....

 

[Marin]

There has been at least one lengthy discussion of the pros and cons of swivels on the forum. Should be easy to find in the archives.

 

[ben2go]

Never used a swivel.Never seen the need for one in any of my anchoring situations.

 

[BruceK]

Never used a swivel.Never seen the need for one in any of my anchoring situations.

I use my swivel as a paperweight on my desk, works flawlessly. Can`t understand the criticism. BruceK

 

[ben2go]

I use my swivel as a paperweight on my desk, works flawlessly. Can`t understand the criticism. BruceK

:lol:

 

[av8r]

I use mine as a sounding weight when I don't trust the depth-sounder at anchor. It would stay cleaner if I used it as a paperweight, I hadn't thought of that....

 

[rwidman]

I've never used a swivel and have not seen the need for one. The anchor may spin on the way up, but that really doesn't hurt anything.

I watched a slip neighbor as he installed a new anchor and rode on his boat. He had gone to West Marine and bought the anchor, rode, and swivel.

He installed the swivel on the bitter end of the rode, the end that attaches in the anchor locker! Then he pulled all the rope out of the box and laid it on the dock, virtually guaranteeing that it would twist and kink when he tried to get it into the anchor locker. (He had done all this by the time I got there.)

I explained to him that the swivel goes between the rode and the anchor and he said he would go buy another one. I also helped him lay the rope out and try to untwist it.

These are nice people, but even though they use their boat on a regular basis, they are more "partyers" than boaters.

 

[Third-Reef]

Good idea, i think i will put 2 swivels on my anchor. You know for redundency, if one breaks i will still have one (hanging on the end of my chain without an anchor). After a little more checking my Kong is rated at 4400 lb Max. The 5/16 BBB chain is rated at 1900 SWL and 7600 Breaking strength. The swivel is going to go.

Interestingly, walking down the dock (43' slips on one side and 36' on the other) 4 out of 5 boats have swivels. Only one is the nice sst Kong like i have, all the others are the galvenized ones that look like 2 shackels with a bolt between them. These are not the plastic fantastic searays weekend joyriders. mostly salty looking sail boats like islander 36, swan 42 ??? Mabey we should let Heraldo know about the swivel conspericy perpetuated by the yachting 1%

 

[Marin]

We installed a swivel (correctly) when we installed a new Bruce anchor on our boat the day after we got it to Bellingham. But then I started noticing that the boaters around us-- power and sail-- who we met and learned did a lot of anchoring didn't use swivels. A few conversations with them on the subject convinced us and we removed ours.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Stayed on topic fine for 5 posts. Then it swiveled all over the place.

I think most skippers use chain primarily to help control catenary. And we established some time ago that the best place for the weight of the chain was about 80 percent of the way from the bow roller to the anchor shank. So ideally one would have a really big short piece of studded chain there and decending sizes of chain to each end or about half way to the bow roller. But ther'e are very few winches that will accommodate a rode made up of several different sizes. So for most boats I'd say about 30 or 40 feet of chain and the rest nylon line to be as close to optimum as possible w a spliced rode. And for those that don't trust the chain to line splice all chain would probably suffice. I would like to find a winch that had a gypsy/wildcat right next to each other to change from line to chain when the chain came up. There is not many but they are out there. I think there is no doubt that a combination rode is best and the real question is how to handle it.

 

[psneeld]

Stayed on topic fine for 5 posts. Then it swiveled all over the place.

I think most skippers use chain primarily to help control catenary. And we established some time ago that the best place for the weight of the chain was about 80 percent of the way from the bow roller to the anchor shank. So ideally one would have a really big short piece of studded chain there and decending sizes of chain to each end or about half way to the bow roller. But ther'e are very few winches that will accommodate a rode made up of several different sizes. So for most boats I'd say about 30 or 40 feet of chain and the rest nylon line to be as close to optimum as possible w a spliced rode. And for those that don't trust the chain to line splice all chain would probably suffice. I would like to find a winch that had a gypsy/wildcat right next to each other to change from line to chain when the chain came up. There is not many but they are out there. I think there is no doubt that a combination rode is best and the real question is how to handle it.

One CAMP believes a combination rode is the best unless you think like some that ALL chain and a snubber is really a combination.

I think all any forum has ever established is there's always another opinion with possibilities.

 

[Delfin]

Good idea, i think i will put 2 swivels on my anchor. You know for redundency, if one breaks i will still have one (hanging on the end of my chain without an anchor). After a little more checking my Kong is rated at 4400 lb Max. The 5/16 BBB chain is rated at 1900 SWL and 7600 Breaking strength. The swivel is going to go.

Interestingly, walking down the dock (43' slips on one side and 36' on the other) 4 out of 5 boats have swivels. Only one is the nice sst Kong like i have, all the others are the galvenized ones that look like 2 shackels with a bolt between them. These are not the plastic fantastic searays weekend joyriders. mostly salty looking sail boats like islander 36, swan 42 ??? Mabey we should let Heraldo know about the swivel conspericy perpetuated by the yachting 1%

Perhaps the reason why 4 of 5 boats have swivels is that 4 of 5 find them useful. If one's anchor weighs about the same as the average bag of flour, maybe a swivel isn't needed. If it weighs a bit more, they are helpful in positioning the anchor before bringing it on board. Mine is stronger than the chain, so if one is worried about the swivel breaking before the chain, perhaps a better swivel is in order, or at least one matched to the job it is supposed to do.

For example, this swivel for 5/16" chain has a BL greater than the 5/16" chain. 360 Degree Anchor Swivel | Shackle.

 

[Steve]

I haven't used or needed one for years. My current boat came with one of the ACCO galvanized swivels which looked very strong but I took it off.
When reading these threads I often wonder how many (correctly installed) actually break? I have never known of it happening.
Steve W

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I think Geraldo is the 1% yachting establishment. He used to keep his large sailboat in Mattapoisett,Ma. He is a very experienced sailor by the way.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

For example, this swivel for 5/16" chain has a BL greater than the 5/16" chain. 360 Degree Anchor Swivel | Shackle.

I'm using the Suncor Universal model, for the reason stated earlier, to get the anchor aligned & up over the pulpit. It's a massive hunk of stainless. Breaking strength is something like 15,000#, I'm not sweating it.

 

[Carey]

Stayed on topic fine for 5 posts. Then it swiveled all over the place.

I think most skippers use chain primarily to help control catenary. And we established some time ago that the best place for the weight of the chain was about 80 percent of the way from the bow roller to the anchor shank. So ideally one would have a really big short piece of studded chain there and decending sizes of chain to each end or about half way to the bow roller. But ther'e are very few winches that will accommodate a rode made up of several different sizes. So for most boats I'd say about 30 or 40 feet of chain and the rest nylon line to be as close to optimum as possible w a spliced rode. And for those that don't trust the chain to line splice all chain would probably suffice. I would like to find a winch that had a gypsy/wildcat right next to each other to change from line to chain when the chain came up. There is not many but they are out there. I think there is no doubt that a combination rode is best and the real question is how to handle it.

Eric
How about a Kedge? Set your anchor, then slide a kedge down your rode to the desired 80% point. It seems to me it would be the simplest solution. I haven't used one, so in my case it is simply speculation.
Carey
PS-Welcome to the Evergreen State!!!

 

[psneeld]

Eric
How about a Kedge? Set your anchor, then slide a kedge down your rode to the desired 80% point. It seems to me it would be the simplest solution. I haven't used one, so in my case it is simply speculation.
Carey
PS-Welcome to the Evergreen State!!!

Did you mean kellet? Kedge is usually the anchor that ungrounds you...

Definitions: If an anchor does not set well or hold well and tends to drag, some people will advise adding an anchor sentinel, angle, chum, buddy, rider, or kellet.

 

[BruceK]

Did you mean kellet? Kedge is usually the anchor that ungrounds you...

Definitions: If an anchor does not set well or hold well and tends to drag, some people will advise adding an anchor sentinel, angle, chum, buddy, rider, or kellet.

We acquired a New Zealand made "Anchor Buddy" with our boat. Our CQR anchor is so good (oops,there goes the thread) we`ve never used it,but I understand you slide it down the anchor chain,positioning it about a metre above the sea floor at low tide, it changes the pull on the anchor to be more horizontal and less likely to dislodge. Very important to secure the end of the line you lower it on, before letting it slide down. BruceK

 

[Carey]

Did you mean kellet? Kedge is usually the anchor that ungrounds you...

Definitions: If an anchor does not set well or hold well and tends to drag, some people will advise adding an anchor sentinel, angle, chum, buddy, rider, or kellet.

psneeld
I stand corrected. I did in deed mean kellet. Seems like the best way to achieve optimum angle.
Thanks, Carey
PS-That's what I get for relying on my memory.

 

[FF]

Definitions: If an anchor does not set well or hold well and tends to drag, some people will advise adding an anchor sentinel, angle, chum, buddy, rider, or kellet.

The added weight is useless as the chain becomes bar tight.

It will not reduce shock loads on the anchor in a blow.

FF

 

[psneeld]

psneeld
I stand corrected. I did in deed mean kellet. Seems like the best way to achieve optimum angle.
Thanks, Carey
PS-That's what I get for relying on my memory.

Hey..never seen one used or used one myself so it's never in the forefront of my memory either!

The only reason I know the name so well is my sailing buddy who has all the toys has one. He is so proud of it even thogh he never anchors or cruises his 42 foot sailboat. I called it a sentinel when I saw it (from my readings) and he kept calling it a kellet. I wanted to throw it overboard just because he insisted on the stupid name and I knew he would never use it...

 

[psneeld]

Definitions: If an anchor does not set well or hold well and tends to drag, some people will advise adding an anchor sentinel, angle, chum, buddy, rider, or kellet.

The added weight is useless as the chain becomes bar tight.

It will not reduce shock loads on the anchor in a blow.

FF

Correct but they have other useful traits for non-storm conditions which most power boaters should be in 99-100 of the time...ESPECIALLY coastal cruisers...

 

[rwidman]

........... If one's anchor weighs about the same as the average bag of flour, maybe a swivel isn't needed. If it weighs a bit more, they are helpful in positioning the anchor before bringing it on board. .

OK, so how much does an "average bag of flour" weigh?

My anchor weighs 33 lb. Is that more or less than an average bag of flour?

 

[rwidman]

Rope can twist. Chain might twist a bit, but it will straighten out as it passes through the windlass (assuming you have a windlass). If there is any rotary tension on the chain, the anchor will begin spinning to relieve that tension as soon as it disengages from the sea bottom. If necessary, one can pause and let the anshor spin to it's natural position once the anchor clears the water.

At that point, bring it up the rest of the way, secure it, and move on.