Anchor chain

[rslifkin]

Excess chain = excess weight. No need to carry extra weight you don't need.

Very true. But in some places, 100 feet of chain isn't enough. In many places, 100 feet plus line is perfectly adequate, but in others, there's too much concern for bottom chafe (coral, rocks, etc.) and 150 or even 200+ feet of chain is necessary to have good flexibility in where you can anchor without risk of chafing through your rode.

 

[jeffnick]

Measure the weight of 50 feet of chain. Add that weight to the anchor and eliminate all the chain. Chain aids in setting, but ultimately doesn't do jack for holding. If you're not in coral or (sharp) rocks or staying at anchor for days at a time, there's a high overhead for chain. Show me how chain is an advantage in "C" conditions...in fact without snubbers you'll likely tear out a deck fitting in a gust and if you do use a snubber and you need to reset in an emergency it's gonna take a lot of time/hassle which may not be available? Zero chain for me with my Rocna!

 

[backinblue]

The only way I found to mark chain that you can actually see was to spray paint it. I spray 1’ of chain every 30’ and use a different color each time. I can then see exactly what is paying out from the helm. I anchor a lot so I must respray every year.

I do the same, but I notice there are plastic markers that you can insert inside the links as markers. I think I saw them on West Marine. I only have 50' chain so rarely do I not deploy it all anyway. I tend to agree with someone who posted earlier rule of thumb, chain = boat length, rope diameter twice chain diameter. Also note that there is a variety of chain type out there of various strengths, some are weaker than the rope they are attached to. You can play with grades of chain to add or remove weight if that's your goal. You do of course be sure it's compatible with your windlass. As I am purchasing a new rode currently to match my new Ultra Anchor, I've become recently educated. FYI, highly recommend Miami Cordage for response, service, quality, and price.

 

[backinblue]

Measure the weight of 50 feet of chain. Add that weight to the anchor and eliminate all the chain. Chain aids in setting, but ultimately doesn't do jack for holding. If you're not in coral or (sharp) rocks or staying at anchor for days at a time, there's a high overhead for chain. Show me how chain is an advantage in "C" conditions...in fact without snubbers you'll likely tear out a deck fitting in a gust and if you do use a snubber and you need to reset in an emergency it's gonna take a lot of time/hassle which may not be available? Zero chain for me with my Rocna!

I would never go with zero chain but I agree with your theory that chain doesn't help in a high wind condition and may hurt because it's not shock absorbent. I think a boat's length of chain should work for most, if you want less, at least have 15-20ft.

 

[backinblue]

Very true. But in some places, 100 feet of chain isn't enough. In many places, 100 feet plus line is perfectly adequate, but in others, there's too much concern for bottom chafe (coral, rocks, etc.) and 150 or even 200+ feet of chain is necessary to have good flexibility in where you can anchor without risk of chafing through your rode.

I've not anchored in those types of bottoms but I trust you opinion if you are anchored in 20' water with a sharp coral bottom. For us in the northeast, that's never a concern.

 

[rgano]

Saying that a fiber rode obviates the need for a snubber is in my opinion false. At no time, regardless of rode, should you all the rode to stress the windlass.

 

[rslifkin]

Saying that a fiber rode obviates the need for a snubber is in my opinion false. At no time, regardless of rode, should you all the rode to stress the windlass.

The rode shouldn't stress the windlass, but with a nylon rode you can typically cleat it off without a snubber, given an adequately placed tie-off point.

With my mixed rode, I typically cleat the nylon off and apply chafe protection where it goes through the roller. In heavy weather, I'd do the same, but leave some slack and use a bridle to the bow cleats to reduce chafe risk on the main rode.


My setup looks like the picture below (but I've switched to longer sleeves for chafe protection). The chafe sleeve is woven nylon and velcros in place over the line.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Show me how chain is an advantage in "C" conditions

Easy. First, the picture is about a 2:1 ratio, so even with all chain the "C" condition is reached too early. But if the illustration was 2:1 with all nylon rode, the "C" condition would likely be reached at 5 to 10 knots.

Advantage chain.

 

[backinblue]

Saying that a fiber rode obviates the need for a snubber is in my opinion false. At no time, regardless of rode, should you all the rode to stress the windlass.

I agree but you misunderstood me. I never leave the stress on the windlass. If you are all chain, you need a snubber or some other method to connect the chain to boat other than the windlass. If you are dealing with nylon rope, it's easy to cleat it on the bow and release the load from the windlass. Also, if the wind picks up it's very simple to un-cleat and pay out more rope and re-cleat.

 

[backinblue]

Easy. First, the picture is about a 2:1 ratio, so even with all chain the "C" condition is reached too early. But if the illustration was 2:1 with all nylon rode, the "C" condition would likely be reached at 5 to 10 knots.

Advantage chain.

First, I hope nobody would anchor with 2:1 scope. Second, nobody should be worried about 5-10 knots of wind if you are properly anchored. The point is that if chain doesn't really help, and could actually hurt, in high winds, why carry all that weight around and beat up your windlass whenever you anchor? I agree better to invest in a better/bigger anchor.

 

[mickand]

I have the same boat as you and have 160ft of 3/8" chain and a 44lb Rocna anchor.
The only time I needed more in 30,000 miles of cruising was in the Ship Anchorage between Baton Rouge and New Orleans on the Mississippi.
To get a good nights sleep there, you have to hide behind a freighter if you can, to avoid big ship passing wakes.
The depth was 70ft, quiet with minimal current. It held all night but I'd have been happier with more chain - a lot more chain.
As said by others, I pull the chain out every year, hose it down with fresh water and spray paint different colors at 50ft intervals. I use red for the nearest 8ft from the anchor to give me a clue that the anchor is close and also the end 10ft to show me that I don't have much left to pay out.

 

[backinblue]

I have the same boat as you and have 160ft of 3/8" chain and a 44lb Rocna anchor.
The only time I needed more in 30,000 miles of cruising was in the Ship Anchorage between Baton Rouge and New Orleans on the Mississippi.
To get a good nights sleep there, you have to hide behind a freighter if you can, to avoid big ship passing wakes.
The depth was 70ft, quiet with minimal current. It held all night but I'd have been happier with more chain - a lot more chain.
As said by others, I pull the chain out every year, hose it down with fresh water and spray paint different colors at 50ft intervals. I use red for the nearest 8ft from the anchor to give me a clue that the anchor is close and also the end 10ft to show me that I don't have much left to pay out.

Why is more chain the answer? If you had 50-100 ft of chain and then 300 feet of rope, you would have been better off in that situation. Glad it was a quiet night but I would have been leery of 160 ft of chain in 70 ft of water! In fact, I wouldn't have tried to anchor there unless absolutely necessary.

 

[rgano]

The rode shouldn't stress the windlass, but with a nylon rode you can typically cleat it off without a snubber, given an adequately placed tie-off point.

With my mixed rode, I typically cleat the nylon off and apply chafe protection where it goes through the roller. In heavy weather, I'd do the same, but leave some slack and use a bridle to the bow cleats to reduce chafe risk on the main rode.


My setup looks like the picture below (but I've switched to longer sleeves for chafe protection). The chafe sleeve is woven nylon and velcros in place over the line.

When I use a fiber rode, rather than cleat it off and use it as the load bearing member across rollers and deck edges, I use my braided snubber with a rolling hitch on the rode to take the load. If it should break in a blow, I have a second chance. The beauty of it is the braided snubber works every bt as well of rope and it does on chain. Here's a demo shot of it secured to chain on my trawler.

 

[backinblue]

When I use a fiber rode, rather than cleat it off and use it as the load bearing member across rollers and deck edges, I use my braided snubber with a rolling hitch on the rode to take the load. If it should break in a blow, I have a second chance. The beauty of it is the braided snubber works every bt as well of rope and it does on chain. Here's a demo shot of it secured to chain on my trawler.

Looks good but wouldn't longer length of nylon be better? Like 50-100 ft?

 

[rgano]

Looks good but wouldn't longer length of nylon be better? Like 50-100 ft?

You are only seeing the last 8-10 feet of a much longer snubber, but you can shorten or lengthen snubbers as needed in various ways. I like the braided section to be about 6 or 8 feet long.

 

[thataway]

I "world cruised" with 160 feet of chain, backed with 400' of nylon line. Most places the chain sufficed. The next boat had 200 feet backed with 400'--but we were in the PNW, where anchorages were deeper.

 

[mickand]

Backinblue - you're right and I'm going to add 200+ft of regular rode to augment the chain. Will probably be using the same anchorage this autumn on my way home - not much of an alternative at that point on the Mississippi.

 

[markrkrebs]

Any good trick for switching from the chain to the rope when you haul the anchor? My windlass has a sprocket for the chain and a drum for line but when it switches from one to another you'd have to do that by hand. That transition alone seems like a pretty good reason to go all chain. Else I'd love to have 300' of spectra and 50' of chain.

 

[Peter B]

My anchor rode is all chain . How much should I have for the East Coast and the Great Loop? I think I have entirely to much.

I’m bad about actually measuring how much chain I have. All I know is it’s all chain. I guess the 3:1 rule and haven’t had any issues....until last week when we anchored in 22’ of water with a 2.5 kt current and a stiff wind. We dragged. So I relocated and dropped it all. I’m going to guess it’s 150’ ish. It held great. Getting it all back the next morning with a windless that’s doesn’t work was one hell of a work out. Fixing the windless has moved up on the “to do” list.

Most of the time we are anchoring in 5-8’ of water.

This has been in FL and GA.

I haven't had time to read all 3 pages of replies, but for mine, keep what chain you have if it's in reasonable condition, and in the case of Steve, get your windlass reconditioned. Then I'd advise both of you to get a non-expensive chain counter fitted and not fuss around trying to mark the chain. Here's one I got and even had fun fitting it myself.

http://www.cruzpro.com/ch55.html

It's a move you'd never regret, and takes all the guess-work out of how much you have out, and how much you have in reserve, even when it's pitch black outside. The only folk who poo hoo chain counters are those who've not got one.

 

[Coastal Cruiser]

Regarding the calculation of scope, the denominator for my boat is:
depth under the keel (what is on the depth display) + draft + height of pulpit above the water + tide.

So in 12 feet of water, with a 6 foot tide range and anchoring at mid tide my calculation is:
7 feet under the keel + 5 foot draft + 3 feet additional tide rise + 8 feet pulpit above the water. Adds up to 23. So to get 4:1 at high tide I put out 92 feet of chain.

To me that is more than I would guess at by simply multiplying 12 X 4 plus a bit more for the pulpit.

Re how much chain to carry. Cruising Florida to Maine the most I have deployed is 150 feet and probably could have done fine with less. I carry 250 feet of 3/8" chain.

To help OP with the decision to get rid of some chain, 100 feet of 5/16 HT weighs about 150 lbs. 100 feet of 3/8 HT weighs about 165 lbs.

 

[Codger2]

The only folk who poo hoo chain counters are those who've not got one.

You have that right, Peter! I have one and wish I would have added one many years ago!

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I made my own markers, which are longer lasting than the commercial ones that I've seen and probably longer lasting than paint. I took some leftover strips of PVC material in two different colors and cut them like the tags used by plant nurseries around the trunks of small trees. The first (blue) at 10' tells me that the anchor is at the same level as the bottom of my keel. It also gives a warning when coming up to rinse the anchor and prepare for it coming aboard. The next four white marker are also at 10' intervals. The next three blue are at 100, 200, and 300. The final is a different color and tells me that I have only 10' left until all is payed out. It is basically my stop marker.

The wide area of the tags are about 1.5 inches wide by four inches long. Very easy to see as it pops out of the windlass and heads towards the pulpit. The go through the gypsy without any problem and I haven't seen any sign of wear.

I have a super inexpensive and trouble-free chain counter. If I need 70' out, once the 50' marker passes I count "One thousand one, one thousand two, etc." 70 feet out will be at one thousand eight. No batteries required and it is simple to re-calibrate if necessary. I do have to pay attention, but that seems like a good idea anyway.

 

[backinblue]

Though I kind of like the chain rode counter, I don't think it's really necessary unless you are anchoring and can't see the chain paying out or having someone on the bow. You only need to be +/- 10 ft. There isn't really any value in measuring individual feet or even worse tenths of feet. I am not criticizing anyone who wants to use one, just that I don't see it as being especially necessary. If you can mark your rode somehow every 10', you will at least get in the range of scope that you want. There is no exact science whereby a few feet +/- will make any difference.

 

[backinblue]

Regarding the calculation of scope, the denominator for my boat is:
depth under the keel (what is on the depth display) + draft + height of pulpit above the water + tide.

So in 12 feet of water, with a 6 foot tide range and anchoring at mid tide my calculation is:
7 feet under the keel + 5 foot draft + 3 feet additional tide rise + 8 feet pulpit above the water. Adds up to 23. So to get 4:1 at high tide I put out 92 feet of chain.

To me that is more than I would guess at by simply multiplying 12 X 4 plus a bit more for the pulpit.

Re how much chain to carry. Cruising Florida to Maine the most I have deployed is 150 feet and probably could have done fine with less. I carry 250 feet of 3/8" chain.

To help OP with the decision to get rid of some chain, 100 feet of 5/16 HT weighs about 150 lbs. 100 feet of 3/8 HT weighs about 165 lbs.

Although you are correct, it seems more complicated that it needs to be. All you need to know is the true depth of water at high tide + height of your bow roller from the water. Take that and multiply by whatever scope you want (4 or 5 or 7) and pay out that much chain/rope.

 

[backinblue]

Any good trick for switching from the chain to the rope when you haul the anchor? My windlass has a sprocket for the chain and a drum for line but when it switches from one to another you'd have to do that by hand. That transition alone seems like a pretty good reason to go all chain. Else I'd love to have 300' of spectra and 50' of chain.

I agree that makes a good case for all chain if your windlass requires intervention to go from chain to rope, mine does not. 50' chain and 300' rope would be a great setup for most, but I wouldn't suggest Spectra. It is low stretch (you want stretch) and it floats which could be a big problem on a calm night with most of your line on top of the water causing all kinds of possible entanglements. Also, I have no experience with it but I am guessing it is not very flexible and would not stack well in the chain locker. I'd go with 8-plait nylon myself.

 

[Nomad Willy]

So many things in trawlering like chain counters are just an unnecessary toy.

Engines, props, anchors, bilge pumps, radios, windows ...
Just huck-um over the side and be a real man.

 

[rslifkin]

My rode is marked at 25 foot intervals. Paint on the chain, fabric dye on the nylon. 1, 2, and 3 orange marks for 25, 50, 75 feet. Then green at 100 (1 green mark per 100 feet). So 2 green, 1 orange is 225 feet. No need to count or anything, as each mark can be read independently without knowing what came before it. And when you hit black stripes, stop, as you're just about at the end.

 

[Caballero II]

Plastic markers

I do the same, but I notice there are plastic markers that you can insert inside the links as markers. I think I saw them on West Marine. I only have 50' chain so rarely do I not deploy it all anyway. I tend to agree with someone who posted earlier rule of thumb, chain = boat length, rope diameter twice chain diameter. Also note that there is a variety of chain type out there of various strengths, some are weaker than the rope they are attached to. You can play with grades of chain to add or remove weight if that's your goal. You do of course be sure it's compatible with your windlass. As I am purchasing a new rode currently to match my new Ultra Anchor, I've become recently educated. FYI, highly recommend Miami Cordage for response, service, quality, and price.

I tried those plastic "gummy bear" markers. My chain spit them out with a vengeance. I keep finding them all over my foredeck. I would have gone back to spray paint, but for the hassle of having to repeat that every so often because it does wear out. This time I tried colored wire ties to code for each 30", easy to divide, converts to fathoms, and so forth. I note that the windlass does chew them up a bit, but replacing so far is easier than laying the chain along the dock and spray painting.

 

[Peter B]

Ok, so everyone has 20:20 night vision, right..?

 

[Tidahapah]

With my own anchor /chain/windlass set up I can not fit a chain counter. So over the years I have tried various systems. Recently I went back to the in link coloured markers (gummy bears) and after 24 months I am not having ant problems. I mark my chain every 10 mts with about 5 markers so they can't be missed and use Red, Yellow. Blue , Green. After 40 mts I start to use guess work. I carry 110 mts of 1/2" proof short link anchor chain.
I very rarely anchor in any depth over 20 mts.