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Old 07-24-2020, 12:55 PM   #61
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Make it easy to display an anchor ball - I have one black, ball fender. I keep it for the bow and use it as a fender. At anchor it takes 30 seconds to move it to the bow rail. It is bigger than the minimum size of 0.6m but that doesn't matter. Comnplies with all the regulations and is multiuser.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:00 PM   #62
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This strikes me as a regulation that is not enforced for recreational boats because it provides little or no safety benefit.

In 40 years I have never had a LEO or the CG mention the daytime ball. Nor had a friend say it happened to them. Has anyone? (In the US only - I know it's enforced in Europe)

Can anyone provide details on a court or insurance case where the failure of a recreational boat to display the daytime ball made a difference?
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:02 PM   #63
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For anchor lights - Rule 30(a) says the light has to be in the forward part. But for presumably everyone on this board rule 30(b) applies

"(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule."

Some state LEO (especially in Florida) insist that the anchor light needs to be at the top of the mast even though on a sailboat this is most certainly NOT where the light "can best be seen". A masthead light on a tall mast can be mistaken for a star or a light on a tower ashore.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:13 PM   #64
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OK, how many here have vessels less than 23’?
Mine is.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:17 PM   #65
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Mine is.
Just barely...
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:29 PM   #66
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Had one and used it on the trawler. Don't have one and no place to adequately display one on this boat (see avatar). So like EVERYBODY hereabouts, I ignore the rule.
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:40 PM   #67
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The black ball meaning anchored, moored or aground, display is international law (COLREGS Rule 30) not just US. Same for the black triangle flag required on sail boats that are motor-sailing to denote that they are under power boat rules (COLREGS Rule 25). In 60 years of sailing and power boat operations I have never seen either display on any pleasure boat.
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:54 PM   #68
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The black ball meaning anchored, moored or aground, display is international law (COLREGS Rule 30) not just US. Same for the black triangle flag required on sail boats that are motor-sailing to denote that they are under power boat rules (COLREGS Rule 25). In 60 years of sailing and power boat operations I have never seen either display on any pleasure boat.

Well they are out there...there are some right here that display them regularly...granted not many but not seeing them mean they aren't out there.

Most of the time, US boaters are anchoring in waters that fall under inland and not international rules.


Plus...aground is 3 balls in a vertical row as far as I know



d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in Rule 30(a) or (b) and in addition, if practicable, where they can best be seen; (i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line.


and it's not a flag for sailboats...it's a steaming cone (dayshape) and I used to fly one of those too.


(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards. ‹‹ A vessel of less than 12 meters in length is not required to exhibit this shape, but may do so. ››
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:16 PM   #69
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Come sailing in the UK and you'll see inverted cones (not flags) used all the time. Not only is the inverted cone for sail boats under power a col reg requirement it is also enforced by various harbour masters with a fine. The inverted cone is very useful when boats still have their sails up and are using the motor. Those experts at col regs will no doubt know that a sailing boat under power obeys the same col regs as a power boat and does not have the priority accorded to boats using sails only. Invaluable in a crowded, busy harbour.

You will also see the black anchor balls in common use over here. Again useful in crowded anchorages, but perhaps not quite as useful as the inverted cone. Again some harbour master may choose to fine you if you don't have one (local bylaws).
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:43 PM   #70
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I know of one anchored sailing yacht that was hit in daylight, was sued for not displaying the ball and lost in court. We always display an anchor ball and light when at anchor on both power & sailing vessels.
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:54 PM   #71
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I know of one anchored sailing yacht that was hit in daylight, was sued for not displaying the ball and lost in court. We always display an anchor ball and light when at anchor on both power & sailing vessels.
That is why I don’t understand why people don’t display the ball, it is cheap and easy to do. And if there is a collision your insurance company will appreciate it...
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:23 PM   #72
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This strikes me as a regulation that is not enforced for recreational boats because it provides little or no safety benefit.

In 40 years I have never had a LEO or the CG mention the daytime ball. Nor had a friend say it happened to them. Has anyone? (In the US only - I know it's enforced in Europe)

Can anyone provide details on a court or insurance case where the failure of a recreational boat to display the daytime ball made a difference?

A few years back I read an article in one of the boating magazines (Sea, BoatUS, or such) that described the situation of a vessel striking a group of seven(?) boats all at anchor in the daytime, some with the dayshape and others without. The insurance did not pay (or paid a reduced amount) for the damages done to the boats failing to fly the dayshapes.

While LE may not actively enforce it, following the regulation makes good sense from a liability perspective, IMO.


Someone earlier mentioned sound signals being misunderstood, which reminded me of a funny story. I was helping as crew for an acquaintance, with decades of experience, on a test-run of the new outboards on his power cat a couple years ago. On the return to the marina, a Washington State Ferry had just departed the terminal and was approaching our port side, about to pass us, so the ferry sounded two blasts. I was waiting for the skipper I was helping to return the signal when he turned to me and said, "The ferry captain saw me slow down so he was thanking me."
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:30 PM   #73
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It is unfortunate that almost no one understands sound signals. Most people just wave at you. However we sound them when we feel they are needed even if the other person doesn’t understand the signal. That way I have upheld the nav rules and they are supposed to understand the signals. So my liability will probably be less, hopefully.
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:20 PM   #74
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I bought the 12" ball. I'll stick on a 2' staff in the pulpit flag pole socket.
I'm trying to develop and maintain high operating standards.
Maybe that will keep me out of trouble sometime...
That approach worked in flying for me...
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:25 PM   #75
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Anchor ball

I’ll be honest ... I can’t recall EVER seeing one in 50 years of boating in the PNW. I’m sure that I have, but it just didn’t register. This seems like one more CYA requirement. If a skipper needs this to realize that a vessel is indeed anchored, he probably shouldn’t be at the helm. I might, however, just hoist one from now on because of the litigiousness waters we must all now navigate. Common sense is not as common as one might presume.
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:35 PM   #76
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I bought the 12" ball. I'll stick on a 2' staff in the pulpit flag pole socket.
I'm trying to develop and maintain high operating standards.
Maybe that will keep me out of trouble sometime...
That approach worked in flying for me...
Your regs call for 0.6 meter, not sure why metric but that is near 2 feet, why did you get a 1 foot ball
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:04 AM   #77
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Yes the regs do call for .6 meter or just under 24” in diameter. I ordered some 24” black beachballs that cost under $5 each. I am going to secure a S/S D ring to one and give that a try. Bought a couple spares in case the D ring comes off the beachball.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:06 AM   #78
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"Product Overview
The internationally recognized signal for a boat at anchor, this black ball is 11-7/8" in diameter, made of PVC, weighs just 1 pound and folds flat for storage. For vessels less than 15 meters in length."

This is from the West Marine web site. I bought a 30 cm ball 2 years ago for my 28' trailer trawler but had forgotten why 30 cm and not larger.

Walked into the West Marine in St. Augustine looking to buy one. Their web site stated the had the Plastimo 30 cm (11 7/8") ball in stock. Bright eyed kid/employee approached and I asked for an anchor ball. He asked back "does it attach to the anchor? Second eager kid/employee asked "you want an anchor in the shape of a ball?" Located the manager who said contrary to their website it was a special order item. Okay, enough with West Marine that day. Ordered it on the internet. I don't recall West Marine being the source of regulations at the time but it is what I ran across this morning.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:08 AM   #79
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The specified size is 0.6 meters / 2 feet, but on smaller boats, they allow it to be reduced relative to the size of the boat. So for many boats on here, the cheap 1-ish foot folding balls are fine.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:41 AM   #80
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Comodave, where do you display yours?
BD
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