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rwidman said:
How do you measure the amp hours used?
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Xantrex LinkPro Battery Monitor. I also monitor the inverter output via a Kill-a-Watt meter. I don't have the whole boat wired through the inverter, just to a single power strip in the galley.

Edelweiss, yes, mine is a Xantrex XPower 1000. My heaviest draw is my 800W coffee pot. The microwave is about 625W. The most I saw on the fridge is 8.5W!!
 
Xantrex sent an e-mail that said that provided the unit has not been shorted out (it has not) it could be another defective unit. I replied asking if they would work with me on another kind of unit, as I don't want to try another of the same. I have had 3 fail.

They have very specific requirements for installation.

1. Within 5' of batteries
2. Flat or vertical horizontal position (top cannot be up or down)
3. Battery cable size
4. AC wire size
5. Mount outside engine room away from batteries
6. Battery fuse size and location
7. Battery disconnect switch

We did them all with the unit located in a locker outside the engine room directly above the batteries. Two large vents to cool the inverter were cut into the locker.

It is an 1800 watt inverter that has never shown a continuous load of over 260 watts. The surge load has never exceeded 600 watts. It is rated for 3600 watt surge. It was never over worked.

The inverter has not shorted. The last one lasted 10 months. This one worked perfectly for 2 weeks. Hopefully they will work with me on another type unit. If they just replace this one, I will have a new in box inverter for sale at a very attractive price.

Awaiting their reply.
 
I was reading Nigle Calders book this weekend. Seems most of the items listed as examples are from Xantrex.

I must have a first edition.

From back in the day when the stuff was top shelf.

Sd
 
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FlyWright said:
Xantrex LinkPro Battery Monitor. I also monitor the inverter output via a Kill-a-Watt meter. I don't have the whole boat wired through the inverter, just to a single power strip in the galley.

Edelweiss, yes, mine is a Xantrex XPower 1000. My heaviest draw is my 800W coffee pot. The microwave is about 625W. The most I saw on the fridge is 8.5W!!
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OK, same POC Xantrex model then. I went ahead and ordered one from WMJ Marine. $129 plus $11 for shipping.

I think I will do the same thing you did and run it off a power strip. I only need it for the flybridge fridg. I guess I can mount it inside the aft closet since that wall is also the bulkhead to the engine room and about three feet from the batteries.

Thanks for the update and the idea. Of course I will hold you responsible if it doesn't work!! :hide:

Larry B.
 
Edelweiss said:
-------------------------------------------
OK, same POC Xantrex model then. I went ahead and ordered one from WMJ Marine. $129 plus $11 for shipping.

I think I will do the same thing you did and run it off a power strip. I only need it for the flybridge fridg. I guess I can mount it inside the aft closet since that wall is also the bulkhead to the engine room and about three feet from the batteries.

Thanks for the update and the idea. Of course I will hold you responsible if it doesn't work!! :hide:

Larry B.
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I guarantee it and will cheerfully refund you the full price of such sage advice. :flowers:;):socool:

Keeping the inverter run to the battery short with huge cables and proper grounding is important. I also mounted mine in a small cabinet in the salon directly above the batteries. I checked the temp of the inverter after the weekend run and it was completely cool to the touch.

Now that I'm keeping the fridge, I need to devise some strapping or bracing to secure it for rough water. I'm thinking heavy straps would be effective, but unsightly. Corner braces might be a more aesthetic solution. I'll also need to secure the non-latching door. Thoughts?

(BTW, the P.O.C. wood shim has been replaced with some leftover manufactured travertine tiles until we decide how to cover the counter. A shim of some sort was needed to allow the fridge and M/W doors to clear the fiddling.)

img_91814_0_2d0da0313c63651d3f09b97a424d52f8.jpg
 
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Boy Al, trying to retrofit something and make it look decent is always challenging. Maybe some self adhesive white Velcro on the top of the door frame to the case would work to keep the door shut. I hope that will stay on the counter for you.

Also that door looks like it has a reversible hinge, so you can switch the door swing to however you like it.
LB
 
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FlyWright said:
Your days (and mine) are numbered, SD. I'm shopping for more cheap electrical crap as I speak!

I'm gonna try out this cheap used college dorm fridge on my cheap modified sine wave Xantrex inverter this weekend. I'm just hoping the whole boat doesn't blow up on me!!

(I pay for 8 years of University of California college education for my daughters and all I get is this piece of crap refrigerator!!)

img_91832_0_2d0da0313c63651d3f09b97a424d52f8.jpg
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Looks like original equipment custom fitted install to me, but what do I know? I drive a Sabre.:facepalm::hide:
 
No more boat funds will be needed for their educations, so I'm looking at retirement before the year is out.[/QUOTE]


Jeezzzzz, I'm looking at retiring in 2032.......:banghead:
 
I forgot to explain to my wife that the microwave and coffee pot cannot be run at the same time on inverter power. Now she knows. ;)
 
Don I noticed you installed a Charles battery charger. My '98 boat has a 3 bank 30 amp Charles charger which as far as I know is original to the boat and has worked fine. However the amp meter on the charger does not work, but it's virtually impossible to see, so it doesn't really matter. I called Charles tech support and found them to be prompt and courteous.

This charger is way to small except when the boat is left unattended at the dock for a week and has the time to re-charge the batteries. In the Bahamas we were on the hook a lot and I re-charged the batteries with the engine alternators which have a total output of almost 200 amps. My electrical usage requires me to run the engines 2 hours a day at 1000 rpm. The noise the engines made while charging the batteries was very close to the noise the genset made. I would have had to run the genset 12 hours a day with my Charles 30 amp charger to recharge the batteries.

I looked into a magnum inverter charger a few months ago. I'm still undecided on how I'm going to proceed, but magnum is one of the very few chargers out there with an out put of 100 amps. A Charles 3 bank 100 amp charger is about the same price without the inverter.

Concerning the reliability of comments from individuals on the internet; It's certainly buyer beware. However TF is a small community of like minded individuals and we all know our reputations are at stake when we endorse or trash a product and I think most of us care about what others think of us, at least on this forum. That being said, Capn Chuck nailed it when he commented on a positive past experience does not guarantee future reliability. He also does not recommend Xantrex products (except echo chargers) and based on his experience, he should know. Perhaps he's pulling our collective leg, but I doubt it.
 
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Hi Tim, most of the marine electronics guys that I have talked with recommend the Charles chargers. I ordered and installed the 60 amp. Now that I am home the Xantrex 40 amp is broken down on the bench to see if I can repair it for a back up. I ordered the 60 amp Charles because the existing wiring and fuses could support it. It is not easy getting all that stuff in the Bahamas.

On Moonstruck we run the refrigeration, ice maker, lighting, TV/DVD and pumps on the batteries. After an overnight we will have 12.6-7 volts coming from the battery bank. We fire up the generator for about a hour or hour and a half for cooking and hot water. That usually tops the batteries up. Same procedure in the evening. I have a dedicated 80 amp alternater on the house bank. That will handle the drain and do a little charging while underway. It probably averages putting out 40-50 amps.

We have all LED lighting. That's really saves on current draw, Plus I don't worry about anyone leaving a light on while at anchor. I don't know the load that you have on your house bank, but it sounds like you are using a lot of amp hours. We don't try to run the microwave or coffee maker off the batteries. I figure that we will need to run the generator anyway, so just do it during those times

The Xantrex battery charger failure was an inconvenience. I am not down on them so much for that as the charger was 7 years old. It was just being in the middle of an important cruise made it almost a disaster. I guess if I had bigger alternators on the engines, it would not have been as bad. I'm thinking that one over.

What kind of draw do you have on the batteries?



[RIGHT[/RIGHT]
 
My Xantrex 3000 W 9 year old unit has worked well. An inverter is part of a system that should be set up with all components in back of the plug in mind. For our boat, a new inverter is going to occur someday and will be installed by a good yard that will bear full responsibility for install and the inverter working as designed for well beyond the warranty period. These yards are indeed out there.

A 3000 watt marine rated inverter charger is about $3000 and saving money on a non industrial or marine rated unit is something I'd not do. On a larger unit I would never consider buying one over the internet or direct from a secondary supplier as opposed to through a reputable yard designing alongside other stuff hooked into or peripheral to the inverter. I believe in paying for service, warranty and install to buy peace of mind and reliability. People like RickB and his yard are out there for a reason. This applies to Xantrex, Mangnum, Victron, Trace etc.
 
sunchaser said:
My Xantrex 3000 W 9 year old unit has worked well. An inverter is part of a system that should be set up with all components in back of the plug in mind. For our boat, a new inverter is going to occur someday and will be installed by a good yard that will bear full responsibility for install and the inverter working as designed for well beyond the warranty period. These yards are indeed out there.

A 3000 watt marine rated inverter charger is about $3000 and saving money on a non industrial or marine rated unit is something I'd not do. On a larger unit I would never consider buying one over the internet or direct from a secondary supplier as opposed to through a reputable yard designing alongside other stuff hooked into or peripheral to the inverter. I believe in paying for service, warranty and install to buy peace of mind and reliability. People like RickB and his yard are out there for a reason. This applies to Xantrex, Mangnum, Victron, Trace etc.
Click to expand...

The only problem with that mindset is that while the yard does good work...inverters across the board have been VERY unreliable in the marine environment.

You can WISH a big name and good install to give you service...but when it craps out on day 2 on your month long trip...you are pissed. Now you have a big issue....go back to the installer and warranty and make it right...or keep going because you have another $300-$400 unit waiting in the wings A few simple connections or alligator clips and you are back in business...you order another off the internet and have it shipped to wherever you are going next. Bingo a spare again...:D

You probably aren't going to have 2 permanently installed $3000 units so you are stuck where I keep trucking and never even miss a cup of hot coffee because I have inverter power the whole trip....and at a cost way less than the big name units that seem to fail with the same regularity or even less than the cheapo units.:eek:
 
Psneeld - Good design, a stand alone charger, well thought out peripheral equipment and quality install of proven electronics is indeed a mindset that works - for inverters and chargers alike. On most/many vessels the loss of an inverter should not be a trip altering event, TVs and entertainment systems being the exclusion. My God, break out the books!

Until late in the last century inverters were not even around. A good 12V fridge (yes with ice cube trays for the martinis) and a propane stove for coffee was all that was needed. Read Beebe or talk to FF for verification.

Once above 55' or so, today's newer vessels tend to all electric with dual gensets or a cruise gen rendering the inverter discussion less relevant.
 
If you cannot do this sort of work yourself in a workmanlike manner, paying retail plus $100 per hour for the install may be your best bet. A yard may or may not stand behind a product it purchased and installed for you. I would expect them to remove it, ship it and install the repaired or replaced part, but few yards will grab a new one off the shelf and install it that same day.

The person who can select and install equipment him/herself can save 40% or more on the equipment and will be intimately familiar with the installation when finished. Of course, there are many folks who think they are capable of such work when in truth, they are not.

As for carrying spares, it's going to take a pretty large boat to carry spares of everything on board. Belts and filters I understand and agree with. Same for fuses and lightbulbs, but inverters and chargers? How about pumps? Spare VHF and chartplotter? Spare windlass? Spare batteries?

A better plan might be to be prepared to pay retail at a local store so as not to delay a cruise. Of course this assumes that you have the knowledge and tools and materials to install the replacements.

I had my starting battery fail during my recent cruise. It took perhaps 30 minutes to remove the failed battery, unhook one of my four house batteries, put it in place of the failed battery, and connect it. Sitting out a storm a couple weeks later, I was able to use the marina's loaner car to go to Sears and buy a replacement and put everythung back how it was originally. I had the tools and extra hardware (the old battery had a different stud size than the replacement) on board.
 
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sunchaser said:
........... On most/many vessels the loss of an inverter should not be a trip altering event, TVs and entertainment systems being the exclusion. My God, break out the books!
Click to expand...

While I have a propane range, the microwave accounts for much of the cooking on board, especially for two old folks who only eat half their restaurant dinners and bring the rest home for the next day.

My inverter is pretty important on my boat. There's no genset.
 
rwidman said:
If you cannot do this sort of work yourself in a workmanlike manner, paying retail plus $100 per hour for the install may be your best bet. A yard may or may not stand behind a product it purchased and installed for you. I would expect them to remove it, ship it and install the repaired or replaced part, but few yards will grab a new one off the shelf and install it that same day.

The person who can select and install equipment him/herself can save 40% or more on the equipment and will be intimately familiar with the installation when finished. Of course, there are many folks who think they are capable of such work when in truth, they are not.

As for carrying spares, it's going to take a pretty large boat to carry spares of everything on board. Belts and filters I understand and agree with. Same for fuses and lightbulbs, but inverters and chargers? How about pumps? Spare VHF and chartplotter? Spare windlass? Spare batteries?

A better plan might be to be prepared to pay retail at a local store so as not to delay a cruise. Of course this assumes that you have the knowledge and tools and materials to install the replacements.

I had my starting battery fail during my recent cruise. It took perhaps 30 minutes to remove the failed battery, unhook one of my four house batteries, put it in place of the failed battery, and connect it. Sitting out a storm a couple weeks later, I was able to use the marina's loaner car to go to Sears and buy a replacement and put everythung back how it was originally. I had the tools and extra hardware (the old battery had a different stud size than the replacement) on board.
Click to expand...


Nice try...but I was the guy who TAUGHT a major marine electronics firm here in NJ the basics and the correct install proceedures for modern inverters when I became a FACTORY TRAINED marine electronics installer back around 2000 when I retired from the USCG.

I know your dying to show me up...never gonna happen in boat stuff...I know you know electical stuff..but with blinders on. Your typical post is look at the manual or hire a pro...

Well I'm both a pro and a backyard mechanic...I can deal with the best of them because I also have a brain and look things up when I'm not sure.

Anyone can beleive a big name inverter will last forever with a good install..but plenty here and others on other forums and my own personal experience (and as an installer) proves otherwise.

There are 2 schools of thought and after doing the expensive, factory installs on my last boat...I think the other way (cheap with backups) has more merit...to each their own but to point a finger at my way is just as laughable as thinking any other way is better.
 
Sunchaser raises a good point. Some older vintage boats like my 1977 are designed to operate on 12V DC and propane. Later models like Moon's are designed for more 110V operation with modern AC-powered ice makers, TVs, refers, heating and air conditioning. Therefore, they become more inverter and genset dependent. An inverter failure on my antique means I revert to propane stove for coffee, propane oven for cooking, 12V dc fans and main 12V fridge. Even my HDTV is 12V. No loss of functionality, just a slight inconvenience. Not so on today's vessels like Moonman's fancy, schmancy Sabre. :socool:

If the success of my cruise was highly dependent on certain components, I'd plan to carry spares where practical. Until reading Don's blog, I never would have thought to carry a spare inverter. I bet he didn't either. That's the great thing about this site. We can all learn from each other's experiences. But we won't all agree because there is no one-size-fits-all solution to the problems.

I have learned a lot about marine systems in general and my boat's systems in particular by studying the proper way to approach repairs/mods, learning from my and other's mistakes and the advice of those I trust. I am not the world's most gifted mechanic, but I have a pretty good understanding of aircraft and boat systems and can muddle through many jobs not requiring highly specialized tools or skills. I've made my share of mistakes along the way and learned from them, but I also have learned a whole lot about my beloved boat in the process.

A vocal few on this forum feel they need to vehemently argue and publicly dismiss anything that differs from their experience or biases, be it anchors, inverters, boat hooks, docking techniques or varnish choices. Their way is the only way! What they fail to understand is that it is up to each of us to decide which opinions and experiences we'll consider in our own boating life and which we'll ignore.

When I think it might help or entertain others, I'll pass along my experiences. Take it or leave it, but it is what it is....just my opinion or experience. YMMV.
 
CPseudonym said:
Nice job Don, but I'd rather get my picture taken in that recliner
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I really hate it when I have to leave the recliner to change out failed equipment. Especially when it is something that affects the making of ice for my drinks. Bummer11:mad:
 
Moonstruck said:
What kind of draw do you have on the batteries?



[RIGHT[/RIGHT]
Click to expand...

Don, I estimate my daily electrical draw at 300 amps per day, almost all of it due to my antiquated Norcold refrig. We don't have an inverter and the 30 amp battery charger as I mentioned, is pretty much useless when attempting to replace 300 amps a day. We have 440 amps in the house bank and that gets us through the night without a problem. Right now running the engines twice a day for an hour each time to charge the batteries works pretty well.

We may in the future get an inverter/charger, but right now we don't miss one. We have a butane burner that makes great coffee with a Coleman drip coffee maker and the burner works well when we need it for cooking. We do use our propane grill a lot.
 
FlyWright said:
Don, I can't believe you posted that picture here. I can clearly see fingerprints on that charger!!



Automated reply: Sorry, Don is out of the office hiding for an unspecified period of time.
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psneeld said:
Nice try...but I was the guy who TAUGHT a major marine electronics firm here in NJ the basics and the correct install proceedures for modern inverters when I became a FACTORY TRAINED marine electronics installer back around 2000 when I retired from the USCG.

I know your dying to show me up...never gonna happen in boat stuff...I know you know electical stuff..but with blinders on. Your typical post is look at the manual or hire a pro...

Well I'm both a pro and a backyard mechanic...I can deal with the best of them because I also have a brain and look things up when I'm not sure.

Anyone can beleive a big name inverter will last forever with a good install..but plenty here and others on other forums and my own personal experience (and as an installer) proves otherwise.

There are 2 schools of thought and after doing the expensive, factory installs on my last boat...I think the other way (cheap with backups) has more merit...to each their own but to point a finger at my way is just as laughable as thinking any other way is better.
Click to expand...

Well, you sure are a very special person, but we can all be who and what we want to be on the Internet. :rolleyes:

I am not "dying to show you up", but just because you (or I) post something on the Internet doesn't make it the only way or even the right way.

When I suggest hiring a pro it's because the poster has demonstrated that he or she knows little about the subject. My work allowed me to see first hand the results of the work of those who did not know what they were doing. I was the one who undid their attempts and then did it the right way. If it was still possible.
 
rwidman said:
Well, you sure are a very special person, but we can all be who and what we want to be on the Internet.

I am not "dying to show you up", but just because you (or I) post something on the Internet doesn't make it the only way or even the right way.

When I suggest hiring a pro it's because the poster has demonstrated that he or she knows little about the subject. My work allowed me to see first hand the results of the work of those who did not know what they were doing. I was the one who undid their attempts and then did it the right way. If it was still possible.
Click to expand...

And I learned in the marine field an amatuer with a manual is often as good as it gets...MANY marina techs are way behind current and even manufacturer suggestions because "that's the way we have always done it" pollutes their views. And I NEVER say do it my way...I just give a suggestion that they may or may not choose to use...unlike some who say "farm it out cause you don't know what you are doing"...:D

And I will be happy to provide my credentials to anyone interested in my ideas or suggestions if they have any doubts....easy enough to do...I don't have to pretend who I am...and while I certainly don't know everything...I usually don't have a bunch of posts following mine with fairly authoritative evidence that I'm wrong though:rofl::rofl:.

We all start someplace and don't have the funds to hire a pro in many situations and that's why I think many people come to these forums...for a reasonable alternative....the pros ain't always the best approach for some...and sometimes the pros are right here giving advice...all you have to do is ask for references if you want to proceed with "a posters" advice....

Sure I can be anyone...but I'm not and can prove it to those that want to know....at least I don't state the obvious most of the time..."read the manual or hire a pro"....:rofl::rofl: I try and give them what they asked for:thumb:
 
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